LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

Bummer, out of stock. I did read that these run hot, just saw some other posts when I searched the brand. Anyone heard of the drop in converters? There are T5 HO lamp strips that fit to T8 panels. So in theory I could take an old T8 4 lamp unit and pop in the converter with a T5 HO bulb and away I go. I am skeptical, but this may be a way to save some coin.

T8-T5HO.jpg

Didn't think to ask this earlier, but can you mix or change the T5HO bulbs with the various wattage's (24,39,54) or are the panels built for only one wattage?
 
canadian1969 said:
Bummer, out of stock. I did read that these run hot, just saw some other posts when I searched the brand. Anyone heard of the drop in converters? There are T5 HO lamp strips that fit to T8 panels. So in theory I could take an old T8 4 lamp unit and pop in the converter with a T5 HO bulb and away I go. I am skeptical, but this may be a way to save some coin.

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Didn't think to ask this earlier, but can you mix or change the T5HO bulbs with the various wattage's (24,39,54) or are the panels built for only one wattage?
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Here you go with digi timer built in. My twins work fine.
http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Digi-Timer-Fixture-p/52325.htm
 
^^^ That is the lighting I am using right now only I am using the 36" not the 48", works great. The timer is nice to have and only 1 power cord to run the light.
 
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I really think if you just stay within these ranges, your plants will love them. It's just photosynthesis I don't understand why some people think cannabis is this "against the grain" plant. Simple biology.
 
At least with my Quantum Bad Boy, which uses one reflector per every 2 bulbs, there is not enough coverage beyond the fixtures size to talk about, PLUS, you keep the bulbs within inches from the canopy
 
So as much as you can fit directly under the lamps? I was looking at the Quantum bad boy and wouldn't that add up to something like 30,000 lumen with 8 lamps? (not sure what the output is on the bulbs) Guessing thats more than you need for the limited coverage? Or do you just go for the max with the T5 HO's and not worry about it as it's not going to burn the plants?
 
Come by my thread to see it in action. You will probably get answers to questions you haven't yet thought of

The clones have outgrown the smaller tote. I moved them into the large tote so they can be separated and get more light below the canopy

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pr0fesseur said:
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So when i decided to grow i started with a 400W hps and MH conversion bulb. I put up my tent and it was problem after problem. With the generous help from the people here i decided to throw away my setup and start from scratch. I purchased the Quantum Badboy 8 lamp T5. I started with the standard 6500k bulbs with some success. I wanted to buy an LED light but didnt have the money. So... i was at my buddies house and he has a LARGE aquarium and he showed me his bulbs..it clicked.. corals need light too and his lights produced the EXACT spectrum corals need to live and are capable of penetrating 3'+ of water. well corals and plants are very similar as they use the EXACT same light spectrum. Digging deeper i found bulbs that produce 410-460nm and 620-660 nm light.. That is also Exactly what LEDs put out..now putting one plus one together i decided to do a small test.. i bought 2 2' t5 lights ATI AND UVL Blue plus and Super Actinic. Explosive growth followed. i couldent believe my eyes. I was told on 4 different forums that actinic bulbs DO NOT WORK FOR plants boy were they really wrong!. i ahve since gone 100% T5 with various bulbs producing only yhe light spectrum that plants need. As you can see my plants are doing AMAZING for being grown with Actinic bulbs.2 of my bulbs are missing as they were broken upon arrrival. I will be changing out some of the blue bulbs with the deep red ones i found for flowering..they produce ONLY 630-660nm light. no other spectrum so i get 100% PAR. top that with MH...now i know what your thinking these lights are not bright at all... well its not about lumens.the human eye response isView attachment 1101463photosynthetic is View attachment 1101468, so your eyes do not see ALL the light these bulbs output. hardcore believers will flame me but let the math and the facts be known.HPS BULBS View attachment 1101469 Anyone notice a pattern here???? Lumens are not the ending factor to bud growth or you could not grow with LED. my sample grow i netted 1oz on a plant with only 116w. If your still in disbelief consider this, chect the spectrum charts for your coveted 3000k bulbs and overlay it with your chlorophyll response charts.. youll notice MOST of the light these bulbs prodice is outside the chloraphyll A+B peaks... now place the spectrums of my lights and overlay them...100% match.. seems to me im doing something right?:joint:
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Im Going to Reply Briefly, I love LEDS and think its amazing, but. (There is always a but). Imm Wondering (Havnt checked all your data) If the lights are good enough, Alot Of Companys that Sell LEDs For growing Also Sell aquarium lights. Now If the aquarium lights where good enough for growing then why would they sell 2 types of lights. (Water and air growing.) There is obv a differnce in the lights, weather it be The Light bands, PAR intensity ect. I dont know but it made me t hink..

Also im well aware of the difference between PAR and LUX. And im guessing so do the company's that make these types of lights.

My Thoughts is this, While The aquarium lights "may" and proberly will grow Something , i highly doubt that they would perform Very well Against an LED Specialy built for Growing weed or any plant.
 
I disagree, benefit of LED is low power consumption and VERY specific wavelengths. Problem is cost.

With the T5 HO variety you can attain or dial in desired wavelengths through various lamps, spectral output being whatever they designed the lamp to do, which is why some flouros are great and others not. I thought the whole point of this thread was to exactly demonstrate the differences. Or in other words how you can PAR grow without LED's. Capital cost savings are better, although lamps are consumables. While not as energy efficient it's still way better than HPS, plus nearly zero heat.

What T5 HO's do is allow you to tune your spectrum without the need to invest in expensive LEDs. Ultimately we will all be growing under LED's, but cost is prohibitive. I did a parts list from an electronic supply here last year with an array of 1 watt LEDs, thinking build it myself. When you buy all the stuff you need it's very expensive. I think those cheap LED units aren't really giving you high quality LED's, but I can't tell without taking it apart. There was no way I could do 90 watts for $150, unless of course you were buying truckloads of materials. (I think that's what they were selling for back then).

(How hot do those little 90w UFO LED units run? just curious, wondering how warm the ballast gets and fan noise)

Anywho, if anyone has hard data I am willing to put together a cost benefit analysis. Could be an interesting project. PM me if at all interested I guess. I think most people with T5's will already know this and probably don't care, but an analysis may be beneficial to new readers? It's been some time since I was originally sub'd to this thread, maybe it's already been done somewhere back in the 100+ pages.
 
canadian1969 said:
You'll have to give me a link, I clicked the flood journal, but seems you are using LED's.
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Clones were moved under the 4ft @ 4 bulb HOT 5 last week, but I have grown very successfully under HOT5, too, using only Quantum Grow bulbs.

Currently using 2 UVL Aquasun + one Wave Point Coral Wave + one ZooMed Florasun. 2 more slots open- one for another Florasun and one for a UVL 660, which I use only during the last 2 weeks because A) it doesn't last long... B) it's expensive and... C) as long as I have ample 600-640, the 660 isn't crucial

The problem for me with T5s is the mercury, and the cost/bulb. They do not last the 20K hours, so maybe 4 grows to still have 85% bulb life.

At > $20/bulb, it doesn't take that long to match the cost of leds

LEDs

I have been a student of led tech since buying a ufo 90 (R/B ~ 8:1) some 3+ years ago. On it's own, not much to talk about, BUT, when supplemented with screw bulb leds, it brings it home. Clearly, monochrome actinics is not the be all end all as was/is hyped. If it was, hps bulbs would not flower as well as they do.

All spectrums (sans 420) are integral, the key is to know the correct ratios of each to one another (and when to employ them). Each strain will respond slightly better/worse to one or the other.

LED growers know that mmj only needs ~ 18% blue throughout, and a hell of a lot more 500-600, as well as a broader range of red, lots of 600-640.

Due to the incredible advancements in WHITE chip/diode tech, MMJ will grow quite nicely under a combination of NW (~18%)+ WW, and maybe some 730-780 on a separate fixture/switch to be used during flower (that is why I use a Wave Point Coral Wave in my HOT5)

Some are now experimenting with security flood lights, which are available in 10-20-30-50... 100w) + choice of NW or WW @ ~ $30-100). NOW, all watts not created equal...

Barely 2 years ago we were lucky to get 1 watt diodes with 80/ lumens per watt. Today we have 100+ l/w (150 l/w shipping now). Meaning? 80watts today does the same job as 100 watts only a couple years ago

 
PetFlora said:
LED growers know that mmj only needs ~ 18% blue throughout, and a hell of a lot more 500-600, as well as a broader range of red, lots of 600-640.
Due to the incredible advancements in WHITE chip/diode tech, MMJ will grow quite nicely under a combination of NW (~18%)+ WW,
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As it will for standard florescent in those same warm and natural whites. Depends on the LEDs obviously. The original spec from NASA only called for a two wavelengths (b/r) Cant recall the exact diode wavelengths, but we know roughly.

On the 500-600 range....Well that is just the point right there, is it not? The plant doesn't effectively use the (lets say) 525-625nm range (all yellow and green). So any lamp you buy that spends energy excessively in that range is a waste of money. Energy not efficiently utilized by the plant. Precisely what we want to avoid by training our spectrum with either LED's or HOT5's. Otherwise just put in a bunch of full spectrum bulbs, but it's wasteful energy wise. I played around with adding in UV and adjusting blue and red up/down depending on stage of growth in an ad hoc fashion, but T5HO seems to be the way to go. I have no interest in induction lighting and am still skeptical on the pricing of LED panels. We would need to see how many harvests it takes to break even on LED versus T5HO assuming same coverage.

What would you replace a 4' x 8 lamp HOT5 with in terms of LED panels?

Where are you buying the HOT5 bulbs again? I need to source them up here and bet pricing is higher.


(indirectly related)
Someone mentioned LUX and PAR earlier, hopefully some will fine this article useful. http://www.lumigrow.com/demystifying-lumens-lux-par/
 
HO T5 bulbs, try Fosters and Grant, they offer free shipping over X dollars, not sure what if any extra charges toCanada

LEDs, the game is changing so fast, I would not buy a commercial grow fixture. The flood lights seem like an excellent option, even over DIY.

Lets say you want replace an 8 bulb HOT5 (432w) but with LEDs. First it isn't w/w as current led watts are >90 lumens/w. 5 floods @ 100w should easily cover the 2 X 4 area and probably 4 X 4.

Put one in each corner aiming towards one in the center. The corners could be single 100w WW chips while the one in the center NW could be > 120 w (double chip floods), or some variation. Price ~ $500 vs a 500w led panel > $1500-2000. Should something happen to a large led panel, you have to pack it up and send for repair; if something happens to a single flood, you can keep on growing while you await repair.

I have had excellent result (~ comparable) using ~ 80 led watts vs 324 HOT5 watts, whose bulbs were in their 3rd go round. Pics in my completed journal on IC, AND, the LEDs harvested ~ 7 days sooner.

In reality you probably only need 300 w of quality led flood light (~ 120* angle reflector) to better 432 carefully selected HOT5 watts. So 4 led floods @ 50w and one at 120w SHOULD be killer. Barring even newer more efficient floods (at similar pricing), I will do this, but not as soon I would like. However, I am upping my screw bulb led game, adding another vanity fixture and more bulbs

In HOT5 bulbs you need 8 quality aquarium bulbs to cover a 2 X 4 area @ $22= $176 + at least 4-6 others for flower ($264/$308 + fixture, my BB was $280). I am guessing bulb intensity ~ 75% after 4 grows.

And then there's the disposal issue, which in USA, they fall under Hazardous Materials, and must be disposed of at specific locations
 
I am new to T5ho growing, I just got a 2 foot 8 bulb and have been reading the heck out of this thread.I would really like to give these bulbs a try but am having a hard time sourcing a site to order from to Canada.Also, it appears it is a bit hard to find some of the bulbs as I have a 2 foot fixture and most seem to be for the 4 footer.Does anyone with a two foot fixture have any info to pass on of a good bulb combo?

My plan is to veg with the bulbs it came with and try this for flowering.
 
Mattemill I'm using 4 marine glo 2foot bulbs and 4 6500k bulbs for veg. My plants are loving them. I picked the marine glo at an aquatics store. I guess Hagen makes it or glow. I have a thread and it shows my lights and plants take a look.
 
So I've been reading a lot of leds without leds, 100+ pages, love it, and wanted to ask folks their opinion. I got my start as a micro grower, and the community is always close to my heart. I've grown up, but still like to think of improvements i could help others i know make. I know a few micro growers that can pull an oz or two from only four 23w cfls. Yields are restricted with the canopy only being the footprint of the box though (say 8"x18"), and even with a tall case we know the par output of cfls are what they are, even 1" from plant tops the entire grow. We know there are better ways to pay for a watt now. And, more recently in my life I've had so much success with my own vertical grow when i realized how much bigger i could make my own canopy going vert. So, I'm picturing a 2 plant vert grow in a 27x8x18 tall PC tower, with better lights than cfls, boom, both problems solved.
I'm sure the increase in overall canopy, and more PAR, would make for more yield, and better meds. Penetration problem solved also with T5's running the entire height of the grow.

So, keeping in mind only 92W of cfl is what I've found to be the average to attain the aforementioned yields in said 18"x8" footprint, what kind, and how many, 24" T5 bulbs would you vertically put into such a space?... Or wouldn't you at all? ha!

At first i was thinking like two 24" T5's mounted vertically right down the center, a plant on either side, protected from the heat of the bulb. A mini vert grow. But then i thought how little penetration would be a problem and got to wondering if i could also incorporate my love for perpetual growing into this as well. If the strain grown was auto flower and under 24/7 light anyway (like a lot of micro growers do) what if i made one side of the case more for flowering and one more for veg? I'm wondering if putting the T5's vertically on the outsides of the two plants in the case would be better. Say a UVL Red Sun on one side for the plant flowering most, and a Fiji Purple on the other side for the one not as far along. I'm not sure which would be best if only going with two, or if one can even get a ballast to power only two 24" T5's so ill stop rambling now :)

Thoughts?
 
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