First time Growing. Need help!!

BCBuddy420

Well-Known Member
Ok. So i just went into my grow room and saw one of my plants bent over completely and droopy. Almost completely fallen over. My rockwool was dry, but only on this one plant. Turned on the pumps manually and its already proping back up. My question is, will this put a lot of stress on that plant. All my others were moist, I think the feeding tube was too low in the net pot and it wasnt getting absorbed by the rockwool. So what do you guys think. Just went to flowering and i dont want this to fuck shit up.
Lot of growers I have met actually like to let their plants wilt a little bit before the next watering, they claim it improves strength within the plant and the minor stress is a positive thing. I haven't done it in awhile due to a different technique but it shouldn't hurt to have it wilt a little, not a lot. Now...when you ask if all those lights are enough for 11 plants the answer would be based upon lumens per sq. ft and size of the plants. I don't know much about flourescent lighting (It's time I should learn lol) as I have only propagated(clones) with this source of lighting. I can look into it for you though... Do you know all the lumen ratings for the all the lights you have going? And Kelvins too? New pictures taken of the setup always help. Help me, help you, :lol: Any questions on medium for better root growth? Very porous mediums that drain quickly yet *retain moisture* (perlite added into medium is great for this) are the best. Root care is a big part of growing and there is additives/products for this, I use hygrozyme for root health myself. Ventilation or air flow in the growing environment is sometimes the most overlooked factor affecting plant growth and yield inside a space. Getting just the right degree of air movement across a leaf surface (stomata) is vital to good overall production and can mean the difference between high rates of photosynthesis occurring or none at all. Good air flow also assists your temperature control, CO2 replenishment, reduces humidity (leaf transference creates a lot of humidity) and lowers the occurrence of certain diseases. ~ BCbuddy420 :leaf:
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
Currently Im a little above 5000 lumens per sq foot. I have 3 more 2700k cfls to add in the next day or two. From what i hear it should be enough for flowering. Especially since im in the early stages.
 

BCBuddy420

Well-Known Member
Currently Im a little above 5000 lumens per sq foot. I have 3 more 2700k cfls to add in the next day or two. From what i hear it should be enough for flowering. Especially since im in the early stages.
This guy explains it better than I can, this should help explain lighting...

How much light is needed for growing?
Light seen and perceived with the human eye is measured in Lumens. There is an ideal amount of lumens for growing and a minimum amount of required lumens. The very minimum amount of light required for smaller sized plants grown is around 3000 lumens per square foot. Let me put emphasis on "minimum amount" of light. However, that's not 100% exactly accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and the reflectivity of the grow area. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens per square foot for average sized plants. As long as the plants do not show burn, as much light can be used as you want to use. (Note, the sun produces about 10,000 lumens per square foot, on a sunny mid summer day).


Determining lumens for your grow area:
First determine the square footage of your area (example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet, 2 by 2 feet is 4 Sq ft. ) If you have a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb, that produces approximately 107,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) 107,000 divided by 16 = 6687 lumens per square foot. So just divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot.

How far away from my plants do the lights go?
The lights in your grow room should be as close as possible to the plants without burning them. There is no such thing as too much light, unless there is overly sufficient heat to dry out and burn the leaves. A good rule is to put your hand under the light, if its too hot for your hand, chances are that the plants will be too hot too, so move the light up until your hand feels more comfortable. For seedlings or sprouts, I keep them a little further away from the light, because they are very susceptible to burning and drying out, at these young stages.

How do I decide which lights to use?
Factors are COST, Room Space, and HEAT!
Efficiency is very important when choosing a type of light. The wattage is not the most important thing, different types of light produce different amounts of lumens per watt. For example, a 300 watt incandescent will produce about 5100 lumens. (not that you can grow with incandescent bulbs) While a 300 watt Metal Halide (just an example, they do not come in 300 watts), will produce 27,000 lumens. Obviously far more efficient for growing, while still using the same amount of electricity.

Approximate light production:
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt


Incandescent lights: Incandescent bulbs are the most popular type of lights in the world. They may come advertised as incandescent, tungsten, quartz, halogen, or simply standard. The important thing about incandescent bulbs when it come to growing is simply this: they suck. Using incandescent bulbs to grow plants is like trying to flag down the Space Challenger with a burnt out match! You can do it, but it won't work. There are some incandescents which are sold as "grow lights." They usually have a blue coating and usually come in 60W and 120W sizes. While they may seem like a good choice to new growers, they are next to useless; they produce some light at a usable spectrum, but only have about a 5% efficiency and generate more heat than usable light. Most of us have these in our homes right now. Don't use them for growing, instead opt for a Compact Fluorescent, CFL, as a cheaper but more efficient alternative.

Fluorescent lights: Fluorescents are far more useful than incandescents. They are efficient enough, and much less expensive than HID (High Intensity Discharge) lights. Compact fluorescent tubes, (commonly called CFLs) are popular with growers because of their good output to size ratio. They are easily moved around too. Compared to standard 4 foot tubes, CFLs are smaller, more easily moved, and more can fit into a given small area. CFLs are good for small grows on a tight budget, and for novice growers, since they do not require any special sort of wiring or understanding of the necessary bulbs for a given fixture, and the small wattage ones (23, 42 and 65) are very widely available. AND THERE IS THE VENTING AND THE HEAT. Fluorescent lights come in many different Kelvin (spectrum or color) ratings; often the spectrums are labeled on packaging as being 'cool white' or 'warm white.' Cool white is more blue, and is good for the vegetative stages of growth. The bulbs are ultra white. Warm white light is more reddish in spectrum, and is best for the flowering stage. The bulbs are almost cream colored.

Color rating - Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum for Vegging or GROWING, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum and is best for BLOOMING or FLOWERING.


High Intensity Discharge (HID) Lighting Systems:

Mercury Vapor (MV)
Mercury vapor lights are not the most efficient light for growing. They are very bright, and relatively cheap. They do emit light at the wavelengths necessary to support your plants growth, but not nearly as good as a MH or HPS light. Much of the light emitted by MV lights is bluish-white. Street lighting is what most MV lighting is used for.

Metal Halide (MH)
Metal halide lighting systems are optimal for use in the vegetative phase of growing. They emit mostly blue light, which encourages vigorous growth of foliage. They are very efficient, but can get rather expensive to start with; fluorescents may seem more appealing because of their lower price, and they are not much different when compared on a lumen-to-lumen cost level. These lights can be used through-out the grow, but leave a lot to be desired in the BLOOM stage.

High Pressure Sodium (HPS)
High pressure sodium lights emit mostly orange, yellow, and red spectrum light, which is perfect for the flowering stage of the plants growth. They are (in my opinion) the most efficient type of light available for any application if you are not on a budget and can vent the grow area for heat. HPS lights can be used through-out the entire grow. They produce more dense and usually larger flowers or fruit than any other light. HPS lights are generally a little more expensive than MH systems of similar wattage. They are more commonly used by experienced commercial growers because of their ability to produce tighter denser flowers, higher lumen-output-per-watt, and will produce from start to finish.

Just like everything else, available grow lights are evolving. Remember how the sun produces 10,000 lumens per square foot in the mid-summer. Well, today there are CFLs that can actually duplicate those lumens. If you can not grow under the sun, then bring the sun inside. Yes, you can have 20,000 lumens covering the entire grow space with the new 105 watt per bulb CFLs. Three of these bulbs in the proper reflector actually yields 20,000 lumens.



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navyfighter04

Active Member
This guy explains it better than I can, this should help explain lighting...

How much light is needed for growing?
Light seen and perceived with the human eye is measured in Lumens. There is an ideal amount of lumens for growing and a minimum amount of required lumens. The very minimum amount of light required for smaller sized plants grown is around 3000 lumens per square foot. Let me put emphasis on "minimum amount" of light. However, that's not 100% exactly accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and the reflectivity of the grow area. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens per square foot for average sized plants. As long as the plants do not show burn, as much light can be used as you want to use. (Note, the sun produces about 10,000 lumens per square foot, on a sunny mid summer day).


Determining lumens for your grow area:
First determine the square footage of your area (example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet, 2 by 2 feet is 4 Sq ft. ) If you have a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb, that produces approximately 107,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) 107,000 divided by 16 = 6687 lumens per square foot. So just divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot.

How far away from my plants do the lights go?
The lights in your grow room should be as close as possible to the plants without burning them. There is no such thing as too much light, unless there is overly sufficient heat to dry out and burn the leaves. A good rule is to put your hand under the light, if its too hot for your hand, chances are that the plants will be too hot too, so move the light up until your hand feels more comfortable. For seedlings or sprouts, I keep them a little further away from the light, because they are very susceptible to burning and drying out, at these young stages.

How do I decide which lights to use?
Factors are COST, Room Space, and HEAT!
Efficiency is very important when choosing a type of light. The wattage is not the most important thing, different types of light produce different amounts of lumens per watt. For example, a 300 watt incandescent will produce about 5100 lumens. (not that you can grow with incandescent bulbs) While a 300 watt Metal Halide (just an example, they do not come in 300 watts), will produce 27,000 lumens. Obviously far more efficient for growing, while still using the same amount of electricity.

Approximate light production:
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt


Incandescent lights: Incandescent bulbs are the most popular type of lights in the world. They may come advertised as incandescent, tungsten, quartz, halogen, or simply standard. The important thing about incandescent bulbs when it come to growing is simply this: they suck. Using incandescent bulbs to grow plants is like trying to flag down the Space Challenger with a burnt out match! You can do it, but it won't work. There are some incandescents which are sold as "grow lights." They usually have a blue coating and usually come in 60W and 120W sizes. While they may seem like a good choice to new growers, they are next to useless; they produce some light at a usable spectrum, but only have about a 5% efficiency and generate more heat than usable light. Most of us have these in our homes right now. Don't use them for growing, instead opt for a Compact Fluorescent, CFL, as a cheaper but more efficient alternative.

Fluorescent lights: Fluorescents are far more useful than incandescents. They are efficient enough, and much less expensive than HID (High Intensity Discharge) lights. Compact fluorescent tubes, (commonly called CFLs) are popular with growers because of their good output to size ratio. They are easily moved around too. Compared to standard 4 foot tubes, CFLs are smaller, more easily moved, and more can fit into a given small area. CFLs are good for small grows on a tight budget, and for novice growers, since they do not require any special sort of wiring or understanding of the necessary bulbs for a given fixture, and the small wattage ones (23, 42 and 65) are very widely available. AND THERE IS THE VENTING AND THE HEAT. Fluorescent lights come in many different Kelvin (spectrum or color) ratings; often the spectrums are labeled on packaging as being 'cool white' or 'warm white.' Cool white is more blue, and is good for the vegetative stages of growth. The bulbs are ultra white. Warm white light is more reddish in spectrum, and is best for the flowering stage. The bulbs are almost cream colored.

Color rating - Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum for Vegging or GROWING, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum and is best for BLOOMING or FLOWERING.


High Intensity Discharge (HID) Lighting Systems:

Mercury Vapor (MV)
Mercury vapor lights are not the most efficient light for growing. They are very bright, and relatively cheap. They do emit light at the wavelengths necessary to support your plants growth, but not nearly as good as a MH or HPS light. Much of the light emitted by MV lights is bluish-white. Street lighting is what most MV lighting is used for.

Metal Halide (MH)
Metal halide lighting systems are optimal for use in the vegetative phase of growing. They emit mostly blue light, which encourages vigorous growth of foliage. They are very efficient, but can get rather expensive to start with; fluorescents may seem more appealing because of their lower price, and they are not much different when compared on a lumen-to-lumen cost level. These lights can be used through-out the grow, but leave a lot to be desired in the BLOOM stage.

High Pressure Sodium (HPS)
High pressure sodium lights emit mostly orange, yellow, and red spectrum light, which is perfect for the flowering stage of the plants growth. They are (in my opinion) the most efficient type of light available for any application if you are not on a budget and can vent the grow area for heat. HPS lights can be used through-out the entire grow. They produce more dense and usually larger flowers or fruit than any other light. HPS lights are generally a little more expensive than MH systems of similar wattage. They are more commonly used by experienced commercial growers because of their ability to produce tighter denser flowers, higher lumen-output-per-watt, and will produce from start to finish.

Just like everything else, available grow lights are evolving. Remember how the sun produces 10,000 lumens per square foot in the mid-summer. Well, today there are CFLs that can actually duplicate those lumens. If you can not grow under the sun, then bring the sun inside. Yes, you can have 20,000 lumens covering the entire grow space with the new 105 watt per bulb CFLs. Three of these bulbs in the proper reflector actually yields 20,000 lumens.
Thanks for the post BC. That was extremely helpful
 
Is there a reason to measure in square feet and not cubic feet? I guess this is just a measurement for one set distance from the light?
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna have to look into those 103 watt cfls. I could take 4 of the 8 25 watters out, then only run 4 of the 103s and double my amount of lumens. I suppose it would so double wattage but that wouldn't nessecarly be bad as long as my power outlets could handle it.
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
So ive been on the site for 6 days now and in just that amount of time my plants have at least doubled in their bushiness. And they've all grown at least 5-6 inches.It almost looks like they are on steroids. After topping my tallest plant, most of them have caught up to its height. My widows are putting off a magnificent smell, and my Silver haze is doing the same. Every time i open up the door to the grow room i get hit with an odor that is wonderful. Just want to say thanks to all who have been helping me so far. I know there is a ways to go, but im getting excited. This shit is addicting. Im more focused on how im going to grow next time, rather than wondering what my yield will be this time.
Below are a couple pics. The first was taken 4 days ago, the second was taken this morning.

0125131651.jpg 0129130824a.jpg
 

Xub420

Active Member
So ive been on the site for 6 days now and in just that amount of time my plants have at least doubled in their bushiness. And they've all grown at least 5-6 inches.It almost looks like they are on steroids. After topping my tallest plant, most of them have caught up to its height. My widows are putting off a magnificent smell, and my Silver haze is doing the same. Every time i open up the door to the grow room i get hit with an odor that is wonderful. Just want to say thanks to all who have been helping me so far. I know there is a ways to go, but im getting excited. This shit is addicting. Im more focused on how im going to grow next time, rather than wondering what my yield will be this time.
Below are a couple pics. The first was taken 4 days ago, the second was taken this morning.

View attachment 2501570 View attachment 2501574
I second that. Addicting! But a great science!
 

herbbilly

Active Member
It's an awesome sport. Any decision made is just ammo for the next round. I clone with ambient light one reg 23 watt within 5'-6' and supplement in growroom when convenient. No cold window and you can control how big they get until next round.
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
AHHHHHHHHHH!!! This morning i woke up, several of my plants have some red stems showing, and a few leaves curling upward on the sides and ends. My first assumption was over watering. So im guessing i fed my girls too much. So would it be best to flush my plants with PH'd water for a day? Or should i just let them ride it out??
 

BCBuddy420

Well-Known Member
Any suggestions on what to do if my stems are turning red and my leaves are starting to curl up on the edges?????/
Sounds like a deficiency, either that or sometimes cold and unstable temps can cause the red stem. Off the top of my head I'm thinking either nitrogen, magnesium or phosphorus as a deficiency...not sure. Is your feed mix complete? It could be more than one issue, like the redness and curl could be two different things. Most of the time the leaf curl is a symptom of under or over watering. Let us know how it goes man.
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
Sounds like a deficiency, either that or sometimes cold and unstable temps can cause the red stem. Off the top of my head I'm thinking either nitrogen, magnesium or phosphorus as a deficiency...not sure. Is your feed mix complete? It could be more than one issue, like the redness and curl could be two different things. Most of the time the leaf curl is a symptom of under or over watering. Let us know how it goes man.
I over watered. The red is starting to fade back and turn green again. My ph was over 8 for some reason as well. So i ph'd the water and it looks to be working. RE adjusted the feed tubes too. So we will see. Pics will be up later today. Might have some pistils starting to show. But we will see when i get home from work.
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
So to all you out there who have help from others growing your plants. DONT LET THEM!! I was at work yesterday and had my brother check my plants. Well he had to raise the light an inch. When he went to go crank the ropes up, one of the ratchet straps snapped, causing the light to fall on my plants. It broke 3 leaves and bent two of the tops of my plants. So now im hoping this morning when the lights turn on that they look better. Im not gonna cut any of the broken leaves off, because i want to see what the plant does first. But this sucks. It had to happen during flowering....im gonna cry if they die.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
I would not cut anything you do not have too, this will just delay flowering and you sound like you are in a lil bit of a crunch to chop time as is. Not sure if they will be ready by March 11 as I am pretty sure both strains are sativa dominant so you have a dilemma soon closing in on you sir... they may have stopped budding by then but ripeness probably won't be there. Just something to think about. I would def start bending them over too, can get a more even canopy and more light on those lower branches, especially with fluoros
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
I would not cut anything you do not have too, this will just delay flowering and you sound like you are in a lil bit of a crunch to chop time as is. Not sure if they will be ready by March 11 as I am pretty sure both strains are sativa dominant so you have a dilemma soon closing in on you sir... they may have stopped budding by then but ripeness probably won't be there. Just something to think about. I would def start bending them over too, can get a more even canopy and more light on those lower branches, especially with fluoros

Luckily, even though im moving on March 11, i have the house im in now as long as i need it. I just cant get into my new place till the 11th. I own this home im in now, and i havent sold it yet. As for the plants. My lights come on at 9 am Eastern Time. So i will be looking at them here shortly and hopefully the tops are bending back and the few leaves arent dead. If they make it, im not gonna chop them off. I have another 8 cfls to add today as well. I def. cant wait to get my hps lights for next time. Floro is great for newbs like me so i dont have to worry about heat, but i no my harvest will be much less than if i had hps lights.
 
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