Over 26 dead in school shooting
- Thread starter NLXSK1
- Start date
canndo
Well-Known Member
I said I don't beieve the stats - I posted the stats. I am not one to hide data even if that data doesn't support my position. In this case I simply have a problem with the idea that there is one defensive gun use every 13 seconds. If we go to another country that does not have such widespread availability, that could mean that rather than a defensive gun use every 13 seconds there would be a murder every 13 seconds. I simply don't like the result and I suspect their methods.
desert dude
Well-Known Member
I think you are both missing the point. The guy who murdered 18 children today was in "deep Kimchi" when he carried his rifle into the school house before he ever started firing. Do you think a crazed Swiss intent on mass murder would be deterred because his ammo pouch would come up a little light at the next inspection?
The point being made by Canndo and Fly is that guns cause these crimes. If not for the guns, these crimes would not happen. Switzerland is a real world example of a place that has military grade weapons in the hands of nearly everybody and yet Switzerland is a relatively peaceful place, hence it IS NOT the guns causing the problem but something else.
canndo
Well-Known Member
You have not seen me present a case that guns cause crime anymore than you have seen me claim that automobiles cause speeding.
Saltrock
Active Member
This is truly sad. 20 children dead, gone, never had a chance to live life. What still remains is the weapons. I am pro-gun, I do think people should protect themselves. But this is getting out of control. Auroa, columbine, arizona, oregon, wisconsin, virignia tech and now conneticut. I understand that people can be unstable and it hard sometimes to prevent that person from obtaining a weapon. But why can't we do thorough back round checks, metal capability testing, 2-3 weeks until you get your weapon. Do gun owners really need to have the weapon they bought that day? We need a credit rating type backround check, if you are a law abiding citizen who has been purchasing guns for a long time and has no violent crimes,and has done a mental test, then maybe they can be allowed to take the weapon home the same day. If you are a new buyer then you have to go through some hoops to get that weapon. Are gun owners that opposed to laws that possibly could prevent some of these shooting from happening. NRA promotes gun responsibility, but seems they don't want to be responsible or accountable when things like this happen or don't want to change any gun laws to maybe prevent 20 CHILDREN from being slayed.
PEACE
SALT
PEACE
SALT
kelly4
Well-Known Member
Common sense is all budlover needs for backup on this one...
canndo
Well-Known Member
Ah, common sense, that constant companion of those who are unwilling or unable to present fact or evidence on behalf of their arguments.
We have a larger populaton......you arguments continue to be ridiculous. Some things never change, I guess.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
LOL! fail. south africa and its liberal gun laws.Per capita rates of violent crime:
"The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
kelly4
Well-Known Member
Where would you put small private planes? It's only a matter of time until someone flies one into a stadium full of people.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
he said murder RATE, moron.
smokinrav
Well-Known Member
Do you understand how hard it is to kill 30 people with a knife or sword? The only thing easier to kill with than a gun is fire, but fire isn't very accurate.
FlyLikeAnEagle
Well-Known Member
Well this is the type of society right wingers have created where restricting gun rights is anti-american and guaranteeing psychiatric care for people who suffer from mental illnesses is socialism.
desert dude
Well-Known Member
My apologies. My reason sometimes soars away with my rhetoric.
The point you make is that guns abet these crimes; without guns these madmen would be relatively ineffective. Maybe so, but that genie is out of the bottle. There are probably more guns in circulation in the US than people.
The Swiss example illustrates the point that guns really are just tools. It makes no sense to punish hundreds of millions of sane, trust-worthy gun owning citizens for the actions of a lunatic.
DonPepe
Active Member
how exactly would a gun ban go down?
it really seems nearly impossible to me.
would people who rightfully own them be compensated or simply robbed? where would the billions of $ needed come from? what about sentimental value of heirlooms? Would only the law abiding citizens come forward to turn there guns in or would all criminals and police be expected to do so also? If you could get rid of every single one it might work but i seriously doubt law enforcment in the US would ever be willing to give them up for the greater good.
it really seems nearly impossible to me.
would people who rightfully own them be compensated or simply robbed? where would the billions of $ needed come from? what about sentimental value of heirlooms? Would only the law abiding citizens come forward to turn there guns in or would all criminals and police be expected to do so also? If you could get rid of every single one it might work but i seriously doubt law enforcment in the US would ever be willing to give them up for the greater good.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
It still shows that it's not the availability of guns, but the mindset of the shooter.
DonPepe
Active Member
how many crime related deaths occurred?
that's like saying there were 0 shark attacks in the Nile last year so it must be safe for swimming.
FlyLikeAnEagle
Well-Known Member
What shows that? Certainly not statistics.
The top two modern countries for gun death rates have the easiest access to firearms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate