Poor should have less fun, work harder.

[beenthere]

Oh so now you remember insisting cannabis has no medicinal value? You are also certain nobody needs medicine?

Talk is cheap, post up some proof or STFU

 

[abandonconflict]

Talk is cheap, post up some proof or STFU

I don't have all night to search through old threads to find me welcoming you to the board by handing your ass to you. I know several people remember it.

Quit whining about cartoons too Clayton, you know damn well you debate like a child when your are caught talking out of your ass and it is our privilege--no our duty--to troll the fuck out of you when we see it.

 

[beardo]

the poor should have less fun, if they don't whats the point in being rich or trying to get rich.

That is not suprising.
Most pilots want to fly planes.
How much does a plane cost?
Most pilots would fly the planes for airlines even if they were not payed.
Pilots could find another job and earn more but they want to fly planes.
They could work a job and spend all there money on a small plane and be able to fly a few times a year if they were lucky, they would rather work for an airline for little pay and fly every day, pilots are like volenteer firefighters, they are guys doing their dream job.

That was trickle down.
They worked for the rich people who owned the factory and did well by working hard, and were treated fairly by their employer for making the factory owners even richer.
We now have trickle up, the banks charge the poor more, the taxes are higher on the poor and middle class, the good paying entery level labor jobs are gone. The poor work hard to keep the rich getting richer but are not given the chance to achieve a higher standard of living, the poor have to compete to survive, forget getting ahead, this is globalisation, compete with Chineese and Indians and expect to have a similar standard of living, and illegal and legal immigrants here to compete with also and they want to work for less and live more people to a home, and they get preferential treatment.

Wow, what a bunch of well thought out interesting posts....

No one comments.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I agree we cant get there with only tax hikes. Of course there have to be cuts. Is there a middle ground here? Because I could support a tax hike and some cuts.

The problem I have is where the cuts are and aren't coming from. Romney has stated he'd actually increase military spending. If you're at all serious about this then you have to put defense spending on the table. Not something I've heard Romney or the GOP are willing to do.

You don't raise taxes during a depression on anyone. Oh, I forgot the Long Legged Mack Daddy not only got us out of the depression and recession, now we're in Shangri-La where where all the women are strong, all the minority men are good-looking, and all the children are above average .

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I never said you should work harder. I never said anything about it.

You are the one comparing the labor of a waitress/server to a guy who pushes out TPS reports. I simply asked the relevance of the point you were trying to make and you jump on me and try to divert the conversation.

Have you ever tried to have an adult conversation? You know, one which you ask questions and then answer the ones asked back? Didnt think so...

Bucky is working harder than any communist should have to, he's combining planks 8 and 9 into one post.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Is that a Karl Marx quote?

My bet is it's Noam Chomsky quoting Karl Marx.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

no, that's Winston Churchill.

Damn it, I was close. It was Noam Chomsky quoting Winstin Churchill quoting Karl Marx.

 

[NoDrama]

who made any claim about that? i only pointed out that the person bussing and waiting 6 5-tops on a friday night is busting their ass a lot harder than the guy pushing out TPS reports on 2:30 on a thursday.

soooooo the guy who is digging a ditch should get paid more than the CEO of a Multinational Enterprise? Physical exertion = pay grade? I need to find a pic of a retarded wombat somewhere.....

 

[NLXSK1]

soooooo the guy who is digging a ditch should get paid more than the CEO of a Multinational Enterprise? Physical exertion = pay grade? I need to find a pic of a retarded wombat somewhere.....

Based on UB's scale, Hollywood actors/actresses should get paid minimum wage cause they dont do shit...

 

[Fungus Gnat]

soooooo the guy who is digging a ditch should get paid more than the CEO of a Multinational Enterprise? Physical exertion = pay grade? I need to find a pic of a retarded wombat somewhere.....

It wasn't always so. Through the '50s, the '60s, and part of the '70s, CEO pay actually grew more slowly than the pay of average workers. Most CEOs were publicly invisible and liked it that way. Adjusted for inflation, pay packages were much smaller than today's. They included options, though by modern standards the grants were pitiful; 20,000 shares were a big deal. Pay didn't seem tied particularly tightly to performance, yet stocks performed well: The S&P 500 advanced 11.3% a year on average in the low-inflation era from 1950 to 1964.
That golden age ended abruptly when stocks entered a long coma in 1964--and we soon began to see the early stirrings of today's opulent reward system. Since the market was going nowhere, options weren't paying off and substantial raises seemed hard to justify. So compensation consultants--yes, they were around back then--began cooking up the creative pay-enhancing gimmicks they have continued to devise ever since. Indeed, consultants play a critical role as the pay machine's expert mechanics. They understand every gear and sprocket and can always find a way to make the machine go faster. That's exactly what they do, in their utterly conflicted position--paid by management to advise management on how management should be paid.
The consultants' most inspired creation in the days of the stock market doldrums was a device called performance shares, which rewarded CEOs if they could increase earnings per share by a given amount in a given period--and never mind that EPS could be manipulated in a thousand unholy ways. What's important is the logic. You might have expected it to go like this: The stock isn't moving, so the CEO shouldn't be rewarded. But it was actually the opposite: The stock isn't moving, so we've got to find some other basis for rewarding the CEO. That difference, which persists to this day, is one of the keys to understanding megapay.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2001/06/25/305448/index.htm

From 2001 but still applies today.

 

[redivider]

The problem with wages is that the government continues to devalue the dollar by printing more of them. This causes inflation. Otherwise, there would be no need for prices to go up if everything remained the same. An ounce of gold bought a good suit 200 years ago. An ounce of gold still buys a good suit today. The value of the gold and the suit have not changed. The value of the money gets inflated when the government prints more of it.

So what the government is doing right now is devaluing the dollar. The value of food, gas, gold, silver, etc. has not gone up, our dollar has gone down in value.

Taxes are a drag on growth. The more money the government confiscates from business the less profit there is to expand and grow.

You talk about demand as an aggregate. I am speaking of demand on an individual company basis. A local company that makes enough profit can set up a branch elsewhere. This increases that particular companies ability to make sales, etc. Even though there is not strong demand on a global level, successful companies can grow individually. This spurs economic development as more jobs are created, more wages paid, more taxes paid, etc. The fact that a company can take the profit and invest it to get a larger return is what makes the economic difference. Companies produce goods and services which increase the GDP. It has to grow somehow and I dont think you are arguing that government grows the GDP.

Government does not create economic development. If the government takes $1.00 in profit from a company and gives that $1.00 out in welfare that dollar stops economic growth at that point. To get more growth the government has to confiscate more. The government merely skims the profit off of economic development and re-distributes it as goods and services to government employees and the citizens. But it has to take that money to begin with.

There is no problem with inflation. It was a system set-up by some of the smartest minds in the world. The only thing is that they assumed that everything would be relative. For example, if you paid 1.00 for an apple today, next year you pay 2.00 because of the monetary supply increasing, they assumed that average joe wouldn’t notice a difference because his wage would keep going up. It would keep the concept of ‘opportunity cost’ alive, through inflation, and average joe, would still be able to buy his apple because for the same amount of work he did year 1, he’d earn double year two. I’m trying to lay out the reasoning behind the whole thing. You are inventing a problem where there should be none, and trying to take us back to a crazy gold standard thing that I really don’t comprehend. Feel free to explain.

What really takes it is that you assume that every penny not taxed will be somehow invested. That is not the case, especially during times of depressed demand. Private enterprise only invests when there is demand, profit can only be generated when the demand is greater than the break-even point. When demand is less than the break-even point, a company will lose money on that investment and anybody that went to, hold your breath, BUSINESS SCHOOL, you know college, knows that’s not a good idea and will not embark on that venture. It doesn’t matter how much PROFIT you’ve made on previous ventures, how much you can afford it, IT’S NOT GOOD BUSINESS TO INVEST IF THERE’S NOT ENOUGH DEMAND.

Government doesn’t create economic development, you are right. DEMAND does. You are blaming our representative government, which aims to give everybody a chance to have a say in how the resources we all have a stake in are utilized, for a problem we are all facing; all the while advocating for a government so small it doesn’t have enough clout to solve these very same issues.

It’s a circle jerk I swear.

 

[ink the world]

Well put red, hit the nail on the head

 

[Harrekin]

Well put red, hit the nail on the head

Cos people encouraged to sit on Welfare encourages demand now, does it?

How does dividing the wealth of the rich multiply the wealth of the poor? It doesn't.

Poor people need to start with an easy, shitty job or go to college and eventually through hard work they'll rise above their starting point. Achievement spurs demand in the economy and wealth, not "Government Support".

 

[ink the world]

No, people having disposable income creates demand because they have $ to spend. People aren't encouraged to be in welfare jackass. Heres a question, why should someone working full time for the nations largest employer make such a low wage they qualify for those benefits?
Why does that company offer advice and hand out applications for govt aid to their new employees?


Why you so involved in our politics? You got no skin in this game

 

[Harrekin]

No, people having disposable income creates demand because they have $ to spend. People aren't encouraged to be in welfare jackass. Heres a question, why should someone working full time for the nations largest employer make such a low wage they qualify for those benefits?
Why does that company offer advice and hand out applications for govt aid to their new employees?


Why you so involved in our politics? You got no skin in this game

Europe is getting worse and worse and you geniuses wanna follow suit.

I need a place to retire eventually, I was hoping itd be Uncle Sams place but it'll be shite if the lefties ruin it like that want to.

Plus I can have an opinion on whatever I want, but I have a keen interest in US politics because what happens there effects the whole world, not just within the State's Borders.

BTW, people are free to leave their job and get a new one or study...people can sell treadmills for cash too...if you work a job that cannot support you and suck the Govts tit for the shortfall you're a scabby retard.

 

[ink the world]

Europe is getting worse and worse and you geniuses wanna follow suit.

I need a place to retire eventually, I was hoping itd be Uncle Sams place but it'll be shite if the lefties ruin it like that want to.

Plus I can have an opinion on whatever I want, but I have a keen interest in US politics because what happens there effects the whole world, not just within the State's Borders.

BTW, people are free to leave their job and get a new one or study...people can sell treadmills for cash too...if you work a job that cannot support you and suck the Govts tit for the shortfall you're a scabby retard.

Yep they are free to leave their shit job for another shit job. So what would you have the working poor do to survive? In the USA a good work ethic or some bullshit right wing idealogy doesn't pay the bills. Money does and working Americans aren't getting enough.

Jackasses like you have brought the collapse of the middle class. Maybe if you lived here and saw it with your own eyes you'd understand. And yes, your opinion about OUR politics doesn't matter. You do not live here, you have no say. So STFU drink another beer and figure out how to kick
the Brits outta your country.

 

[NLXSK1]

Red,

You think the game is fair?

Inflation helps government because it reduces the amount of debt they owe in relative terms.

The government is stealing from you by creating inflation. It does not have to happen.

Higher taxes are a drag on growth. If they were not then tax everyone at 100% and lets get this economic engine roaring into action...

A government cannot create demand. It first has to take away from one group (REDUCING DEMAND) and then give to another group. Or it can just print money which causes rampant inflation.

 

[ChesusRice]

Red,

You think the game is fair?

Inflation helps government because it reduces the amount of debt they owe in relative terms.

The government is stealing from you by creating inflation. It does not have to happen.

Higher taxes are a drag on growth. If they were not then tax everyone at 100% and lets get this economic engine roaring into action...

A government cannot create demand. It first has to take away from one group (REDUCING DEMAND) and then give to another group. Or it can just print money which causes rampant inflation.

Between the 50s and the 80s the highest tax rate was 70% or more

Did we grow at all?

 

[NLXSK1]

Between the 50s and the 80s the highest tax rate was 70% or more

Did we grow at all?

Chesus, you are being completely disingenuous by ignoring the tax loopholes that reduced that rate tremendously.

 

[ChesusRice]

Chesus, you are being completely disingenuous by ignoring the tax loopholes that reduced that rate tremendously.

oh me so sorry
can you point out all those loop holes?