DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

[Green melody]

I've never had this happen but I've mostly dealt with slime in veg.

If a plant is stressed in veg, lets say, a timer failure or heat stress, once you place it in flower... isnt the chance of hermie greater?

So my question is, in veg, if a plant experiences slime or rot to the point of stress, when it is fixed with the tea and you do place in flower, isnt there a greater chance of hermie? or is that only from light related stresses??

I ask be cuz i know you like dutchmaster products, as do i, but possibly hitting the plants with the reverse/saturator? your thoughts?

Also wanted to add, THANK YOU HEISENBERG! added tea a week ago, ph stablized right away, plants started drinking, and odor was gone almost instantly! new growth 3 days later and ALOT of growth a week later. Ive never seen such a large problem (50 plant system, connected with eachother(easy for reinfections) solved SO QUICKLY. funny, most of us want a (extremely) simple fix aka ready to go in rez products, but your right, chemicals will always eventually lose to nature. the only way to fix this one is to fight nature with more nature

 

[Green melody]

HELP!
I spoke too soon. I just checked my roots, and they are dying again. slime is back. no odor, no ph swing... but the new roots are yellowing and droopy. I dont know what i did wrong. I noticed a difference today... yesterday i did a rez change, flipped to 12/12 and bumped my tds from 900 ppm to 1030 ppm. I let the new rez water aerate for 12 hrs before mixing(even though i have lake tahoe tap), had fresh tea every 3-6 days.. always. all the goodies in the batches... wtf... what could the higher ppms do?

what do you suggest? sterilize again? or change rez and only add water and tea for now?

 

[dr.medecine]

DTW- drain to waste. I top feed for 1 minute every 6 hours, and it drains to waste, as opposed to recycling in any way. Biobuckets are basically a recirculating bucket system with a couple of tweaks. Instead of air pumps, the water drops about a foot as it returns to the reservoir, forcing O2 into the water. The other distinction, is that it has some built-in "housing" for the beneficials. Not much different than bubble buckets (DWC), but if you're going to encourage microbiology, it seems that it would be a good plan to encourage the good stuff!


Grow well,
B.B.

Thanks, appreciate the explanations...

Have all my stuff at home now so gonna give the tea a go finally!

AN microbe products are notorious for exasperating and sometimes even causing a slime outbreak. The voodoo juice is safe so you can use it in the tea, but it is about 10x beyond any justifiable retail price.

As for seeds, I recommend TGA third dimension or GHS lemon skunk. Both do great for me in DWC, as most indicas do. Sativas take a bit more finesse. For nutes, you can't go wrong with GH 3 part in DWC. Keep it simple. Be sure to include a foliar spray in your schedule.

Yeah I hear my friend, overpriced seam to be the name of the game for AN products.. Although one I moved to soil and tried to save is shooting out new roots through the bottom of pot atm, so glad I could save one and now and see what bennies can do, I´m so pumped for your tea now it´s crazy..

So I went with the GHS lemon skunk you suggested for me, well to be honest I went with a mix pack cause that is what I could get asap in my country to make it fast via reseller for GHS but that meant I also got the church who some say is mold resistant and tough as well??

I notice differences immediately, the germination is night and day compared to all Nirvana seeds I have ever tried, for me Nirvana seeds are lightning fast to germinate and basically explode up? The GHS I´m germinating so far is soo very very different, they are much slower och the tap root is slimmed to the outer shell of seed it self taking it´s sweet time. Although GHS seam to me like they are more consistent in speed over all, not slowing down or speeding up but just a slow steady paste over all.

Have even made some changes yet again, DWC bucket is out and a need square designed box DWC is being built and it´s 55 liters instead of 20l, new hose between chiller and bucket, new stronger water pump as well as some extra 4 lpm air pumps to aid the 25 lpm one already running 2 micro pore diffusers. To me air more spread out over the slightly larger area.
Regarding nutes I will give GH 3 part a chance for sure, but if the sensi grow 2 part I have now is OK (at least for veg) I would prefer to use them up first cause I´m already back so much do to swapping stuff out, buying new stuff throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the DWC to get results, lol

Last question for now if ok, I got a 3 part RO system now that actually show 1ppm on a calibrated meter so is what I´m to use for tea?

Thanks for all help guys and especially mr tea himself, so glad I have you to fall back to and a million thanks for the support you have been giving me. Truly believe I´m on the right path now cause of this thread.

 

[Heisenberg]

I've been reading this thread in my spare time for the past week or so. I got to page 100, when I decided to jump to the end & see if it's still going. Wow, 2 years, and nearly 2000 posts. Do the Guiness people know about this thing?

After 100 pages, I've seen more than a few redundant questions but I hope my questions haven't been beaten to death in the second 100.

I veg in hydroton, in a DTW system. From there, some go right to flower in a similar system, and some go into further veg and subsequent flower in biobuckets (the bio part is relatively new to me).

For the past year or so, I've been noticing clear snot balls floating around in the veg res., but not in the flower reservoirs. Here's the weird part: the plants in veg have continued to do well, but about 3-4 weeks into flower in the DTW, the plants start taking a beating. Leaves yellow & necrotic. I've been chasing nutrient management all over the board, to no avail. I have noticed that when I transplant up at flower, I used to get vibrant roots coming out the bottoms within a couple of weeks, but for this same year-long period, I've gotten no roots out the bottom.

So for a year, I've been trying to figure out if it was the jump that made the goat fart, or if it was the fart that made the goat jump. I mean, sick roots aren't going to build a healthy plant; but neither is a sick plant going to generate healthy roots. It's hard to really check out the roots in that system, so I guess I just sort of dismissed the root issue.

We started the biobucket gig a couple of months ago. It went well for a couple of weeks, and then a few of the plants started going south. To date, we've lost 3 of 18 plants in flower, and 3 of 12 in veg. About half of the remainders are not well, while the other half are doing quite well. So, it's easy to inspect the roots in this system, and so it's become apparent where the culprit lies. It was indeed the jump that made the goat fart. It only took me a year, and a whole new system to figure that out.

The roots were yellow, at best, many brown, with globs of brown goo here and there. I don't really see slime on the roots, unless that's what you'd call the goo globs. More like a brown coating (which will come off), on most of the roots. I'm thinking what I have going on is Pythium, but I'm not positive.

I have a friend who's a biologist, and a couple of weeks back, she suggested Great White to deal with my situation. I got some ordered, and started researching the "bennies", which led me to this thread. The GW came in just before finding this discussion, so I added to the res, according to the label. After starting into this thread, I immediately added a sock of AF, and a bit of molasses to each reservoir, thinking that everything can brew in the reservoirs. After reading a few dozen more pages of this thread, I've reconsidered, and got my first batch of tea into the reservoirs today.

To date I have definitely seen improvement. Some plants have crazy new root growth, while others have none. I poured the tea right on the base of each plant today. I'm hopeful that doing this by the book is going to get my situation under control.

So after that brief introduction, here are my questions:

1. I'm not sure, but I think "Pythium" is the name of my current adversary. From what I've been able to glean about it, the best control for this one is good bacteria and fungi, not unlike dealing with brown slime algae. So would any variation in the innoculants provided, or methodology be better for "root rot"?

2. My other variation from the general theme here, is that my systems aren't DWC per se, but the biobuckets are real close. Should I do anything different in either of my systems? The DTW is a way different environment. And the biobucket is designed to harbor bennies, so should they be brewed right in the res., or would the molasses still not be good?

Many thanks to all who have contributed here, and especially to Mr. Heisenberg, who has obviously given a considerable chunk of his life to this thread. I'm so glad this thread was still alive when my need came along. Any thoughts about my unique situation would be deeply appreciated.


Grow well,
B.B.

Forgive me for overlooking your post.

Pythium is easy to take care of compared to slime, provided you ensure an aerobic and relatively cool res. The tea should knock it out fairly easy. Perhaps you need some further source of circulation than the waterfall? Anaerobic pockets can form if the water isn't properly circulated among the roots. The damage to your roots will determine how long before good regeneration starts. I have no experience with Biobuckets but I would think the tea would be better brewed outside of the res. The brewing process will make the PH flux and possibly throw off the nute balance. If these are organic biobuckets then you probably want a specific balance based on factors like stage of growth and brewing inside the bucket will introduce choas. I would brew the tea as a cheap and diverse source of bennies, and add them as needed.

Good luck

 

[Heisenberg]

If a plant is stressed in veg, lets say, a timer failure or heat stress, once you place it in flower... isnt the chance of hermie greater?

So my question is, in veg, if a plant experiences slime or rot to the point of stress, when it is fixed with the tea and you do place in flower, isnt there a greater chance of hermie? or is that only from light related stresses??

I ask be cuz i know you like dutchmaster products, as do i, but possibly hitting the plants with the reverse/saturator? your thoughts?

Also wanted to add, THANK YOU HEISENBERG! added tea a week ago, ph stablized right away, plants started drinking, and odor was gone almost instantly! new growth 3 days later and ALOT of growth a week later. Ive never seen such a large problem (50 plant system, connected with eachother(easy for reinfections) solved SO QUICKLY. funny, most of us want a (extremely) simple fix aka ready to go in rez products, but your right, chemicals will always eventually lose to nature. the only way to fix this one is to fight nature with more nature

From my understanding the stress in veg does not matter as long as the plant is healthy when it enters flower All stress matters in flower, but light and heat stress seem to be the worst. Slime could plausibly cause enough stress to cause a plant to hermie if it is already in bud. Reverse works well enough that you can afford to wait and see.

As for your current flair up, I associate yellow roots with low oxygen/high temps or possibly nute imbalance. Check all your basics and calibrate your meters. If your roots are suffocating or starving then the bennies can't help them. I would not sterilize again, I would continue with tea treatments. You can rinse your roots off if you think it's necessary. What nute line are you using?

 

[Heisenberg]

Thanks, appreciate the explanations...

Have all my stuff at home now so gonna give the tea a go finally!



Yeah I hear my friend, overpriced seam to be the name of the game for AN products.. Although one I moved to soil and tried to save is shooting out new roots through the bottom of pot atm, so glad I could save one and now and see what bennies can do, I´m so pumped for your tea now it´s crazy..

So I went with the GHS lemon skunk you suggested for me, well to be honest I went with a mix pack cause that is what I could get asap in my country to make it fast via reseller for GHS but that meant I also got the church who some say is mold resistant and tough as well??

I notice differences immediately, the germination is night and day compared to all Nirvana seeds I have ever tried, for me Nirvana seeds are lightning fast to germinate and basically explode up? The GHS I´m germinating so far is soo very very different, they are much slower och the tap root is slimmed to the outer shell of seed it self taking it´s sweet time. Although GHS seam to me like they are more consistent in speed over all, not slowing down or speeding up but just a slow steady paste over all.

Have even made some changes yet again, DWC bucket is out and a need square designed box DWC is being built and it´s 55 liters instead of 20l, new hose between chiller and bucket, new stronger water pump as well as some extra 4 lpm air pumps to aid the 25 lpm one already running 2 micro pore diffusers. To me air more spread out over the slightly larger area.
Regarding nutes I will give GH 3 part a chance for sure, but if the sensi grow 2 part I have now is OK (at least for veg) I would prefer to use them up first cause I´m already back so much do to swapping stuff out, buying new stuff throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the DWC to get results, lol

Last question for now if ok, I got a 3 part RO system now that actually show 1ppm on a calibrated meter so is what I´m to use for tea?

Thanks for all help guys and especially mr tea himself, so glad I have you to fall back to and a million thanks for the support you have been giving me. Truly believe I´m on the right path now cause of this thread.

You should come out with a couple keepers from your mix pack. Cheese and lemon skunk both grew phenomenal for me. All my GHS beans sprouted just fine. I may have ended up with more keepers but the slime took out the others. The sensi grow has been known to cause slime IF it includes the PH perfect formula. If it does not have the PH perfect, I think it's okay. Your RO water will be great to use for tea.

Good luck

 

[Green melody]

As for your current flair up, I associate yellow roots with low oxygen/high temps or possibly nute imbalance. Check all your basics and calibrate your meters. If your roots are suffocating or starving then the bennies can't help them. I would not sterilize again, I would continue with tea treatments. You can rinse your roots off if you think it's necessary. What nute line are you using?

My setup consists of an aero/nft like setup, 50 plant sites. I have 4 med size round stones and 4 waterfalls, so it seems like enough oxygen. I always see the tea like foam in there, if not i add. Temps may be the prob, with hot days right now, my temps are ranging from 75 to 84, but i thought this was ok because the tea is brewed at those temps, plus you say they thrive in those temps. its 84 maybe 5 hours a day sometimes... mostly says around 78.

Initial inoculation i had ppms around [email protected] with Canna a and b, plus cal mag. They recovered nicely.
I slowly went to 900 ppm, then did the rez change and added Pure Blend Pro instead... and bumping it up to 1030 ppm. I noticed that PBP is mostly organic, is this a prob for initial healing period? i know you said no organics.

I just drained system and added fresh water and 2 gallons of new tea (to my 40 gal rez). Tea consists of (4 gal):
plant success (1 scoop), xtreme mykos (1scoop), aquasheild (20ml), and 3 handfulls of Acient forest, Earthjuice Hydro Molasses (1 tablespoon) ... aerated for 48 hours... not much foam, not bad smell....


I flipped to 12/12 two days ago... should i keep it going and try to fix while early flower... or switch back to veg till fixed and use reverse when tea works?

 

[Green melody]

Also Mr. Berg,
I know you have done much research throughout the thread and restated a few times how to apply mycos to the dwc plants. They only germinate on root contact, so not much point to add to tea in the beginning, but rather towards the end of brewing or just applying straight to roots.

You also stated that aeroponic systems have a slight benefit because they have a place to live and not just multiply.

So my question is, if you were an aeroponic (not true aero, not 100% suspended, not very suspended at all, more of a nft like aeroflo system vinyl posts) how would you go about the slime.

bacteria in tea and add mycos mixed with water in spray bottle and spray on roots or poor on netpod;
or bacteria in tea, mycos in tea before done, and spray? I only ask because i know your constantly researching and finding new information that change your methods.

I know youve mentioned a few ideas, but if you were in my shoes what would your decision be?

I think about adding or spraying 50 plants, and think about the extra mycos going back to main rez and then think about the tea i add to rez and the mycos in the tea... i think maybe the fungi will push out the bacteria and then my water is not so beneficial anymore... i think maybe becuz i added xtra fungi to plants a few days ago that may have killed my bac and cuzed the slime outbreak...

 

[Heisenberg]

My setup consists of an aero/nft like setup, 50 plant sites. I have 4 med size round stones and 4 waterfalls, so it seems like enough oxygen. I always see the tea like foam in there, if not i add. Temps may be the prob, with hot days right now, my temps are ranging from 75 to 84, but i thought this was ok because the tea is brewed at those temps, plus you say they thrive in those temps. its 84 maybe 5 hours a day sometimes... mostly says around 78.

84 is on the fringe of acceptable, but okay if you have the oxygen input, and it sounds like you do. Just be sure along with the oxygen you are getting proper circulation among your roots. You shouldn't take the absence of foam in the res to indicate less microbe activity. Foam is mostly a result of proteins and other compounds being broken down. This is something we expect in the tea, but not necessarily in the res. If it's there fine, if it's not fine. For me I sometimes see a bit of foam in the res just after inoculation, but it doesn't persist for more than a day. If all other factors are secure, then we can just use time to judge when we need more bennies. Can be every day if fighting the slime, every three days, or even once a week. That is something you will have to determine by watching your setup.

Initial inoculation i had ppms around [email protected] with Canna a and b, plus cal mag. They recovered nicely.
I slowly went to 900 ppm, then did the rez change and added Pure Blend Pro instead... and bumping it up to 1030 ppm. I noticed that PBP is mostly organic, is this a prob for initial healing period? i know you said no organics.

I just drained system and added fresh water and 2 gallons of new tea (to my 40 gal rez). Tea consists of (4 gal):
plant success (1 scoop), xtreme mykos (1scoop), aquasheild (20ml), and 3 handfulls of Acient forest, Earthjuice Hydro Molasses (1 tablespoon) ... aerated for 48 hours... not much foam, not bad smell....

Your problems will cease when you switch to synthetic nutes. Organic nutes in DWC cause a bio-sludge which can cover roots like slime, and then invite the real slime by restricting oxygen to roots on a microscopic level. Adding more bennies won't help in this situation.

I flipped to 12/12 two days ago... should i keep it going and try to fix while early flower... or switch back to veg till fixed and use reverse when tea works?

Depends on their health and size. If I were you I would probably put them into veg until I can figure out a different nute schedule.

Also Mr. Berg,
I know you have done much research throughout the thread and restated a few times how to apply mycos to the dwc plants. They only germinate on root contact, so not much point to add to tea in the beginning, but rather towards the end of brewing or just applying straight to roots.

You also stated that aeroponic systems have a slight benefit because they have a place to live and not just multiply.

So my question is, if you were an aeroponic (not true aero, not 100% suspended, not very suspended at all, more of a nft like aeroflo system vinyl posts) how would you go about the slime.

bacteria in tea and add mycos mixed with water in spray bottle and spray on roots or poor on netpod;
or bacteria in tea, mycos in tea before done, and spray? I only ask because i know your constantly researching and finding new information that change your methods.

I know youve mentioned a few ideas, but if you were in my shoes what would your decision be?

I think about adding or spraying 50 plants, and think about the extra mycos going back to main rez and then think about the tea i add to rez and the mycos in the tea... i think maybe the fungi will push out the bacteria and then my water is not so beneficial anymore... i think maybe becuz i added xtra fungi to plants a few days ago that may have killed my bac and cuzed the slime outbreak...

The extra mycos wont hurt anything. Mycos work with bacteria like Bacillus, so they like each other. Pouring tea, or a myco mix, over the base of the stalk and down into the net pots is enough for small to medium plants. Spraying or dipping is optional, depending on the situation.

 

[Green melody]

Thanks for you input,
2 days ago i added tea and water only. Running the pump 24/7 to keep waterfalls/ oxygenation at its peak. I have noticed the slime take over all the new roots i had obtained with the first inoculation attempt but no bad smell or drastic ph rise.

I also followed your advice and went back to veg. i was on 12/12 for 4 days, now back on 24/0. hopefully not much stress, maybe some reverse for sure when flowered.

I want to sterilize again, but I am going with your recommendation and just continuing with tea. I noticed on the batches i brewed when i starting having issues with the nutes, that i had barely any foam. I think the sock wasnt as thin as the first one, and maybe the ewc didnt get through all too well. and i only added approx. one tablespoon of molasses for 4 gallons.

The batch i am about to add now, I didnt use a sock, just like you do, i just threw the ewc straight in the bucket. I also added 2-3 times more molasses. I noticed a good amount of foam right away. And my stone was back to having a thick biofilm (which my first batch that seemed to work well had).

Perhaps the botanicare pure blend pro grow nutes and the tea batch (possibly weak) and the temps...bad combo

I will try the tea for a few more days... if no improvment should i sterilize and try again, or will that be too much for the plants and just transplant to coco to have the microbes fix it there and hopefully recover in about 2 weeks?

Should I add GH nutes to my rez now or until i see some new white growth? as of now theres little to no white growth anymore, all slimed but not super bad yet.

 

[Heisenberg]

I would put them on the GH 'mild' strength, minus the bloom, for a week and then reevaluate. It's hard to say without seeing the plants. You had it right once, the organics just messed you up, so you know you can do it again. Incidentally, that gunked up air stone that's left in the tea when you're done brewing can go into the res as a great source of bennies.

 

[Bwpz]

Can the reservoir water be too cold for the bennies? My water is cold as hell, probably from where it's sitting on a cold wooden floor.

 

[hellraizer30]

Can the reservoir water be too cold for the bennies? My water is cold as hell, probably from where it's sitting on a cold wooden floor.

Yes it can be to cold, how cold is your water?

 

[Green melody]

Heres a pic of a plant and rez, to get a better idea, confirm the slime
plants about 2 ft tall Heres my rez, after i added tea today... should be enough oxygen

But its day 3 now and i see no signs of new growth anywhere, not like before. Im wondering when i should try and sterilize again.. no bad smells in res still, keeping the water clean but all plants dont have any white roots period, how long should i wait this out Mr H before trying to hit them with a little h2o2 and start over?

PS - Bonanticare PBP isnt mentioned on your thread before, not like liquid karma... it is still considered organic right? I know in the thread you said 'mostly' organic nutes are ok? or am i mistaken? or is that when all is under control?

 

[bobhopetoo]

You can change out the water if it seems too dirty, but don't rinse the roots or sterilize. Just change the water and add more bennies. Clear tiny roots are a good sign. It means rapid root growth. Steady as she goes.

all looking good now , just waiting to see if cuttings will root in the aero/sprinkler cloner,
just wondering if any more info has come to light on exactly what we,re dealing with? I,d be really interested in the transport vectors,as I,m still terified of new outbreaks.
also at what point should I go down to a maintenance dose, as one bucket still has brown afterslime kicking around on the roots and in the nutes, even after changing the water.
This thread has been my lifeline, thanks Heisenberg.

 

[KAL EL]

Can the reservoir water be too cold for the bennies? My water is cold as hell, probably from where it's sitting on a cold wooden floor.

I have used beneficials with 54F water temps, no problems.

 

[Bwpz]

The temperature of my water is 68F, so it isn't bad if you're growing in 54F.

 

[whersdareelsourd454]

im usin the stew and im still havin issues....still gettin the brown patches on the roots....i mean it helped a lot jus wen i change rez the shyt is ther like two days later...any sugges is appreciated

 

[whersdareelsourd454]

i feel like changing rez is the problem...shyt is crazy

 

[Green melody]

Same prob here. First 10 days with tea is money.. First rez change and its back right away, noticable to most is 2 days ater rez change.
Weaker tea?
Not enugh tea added at the change?
More food for slime at rez change?