polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
your right smoking out my ears. do'h
LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
Fonzarelli
Active Member
You were right, my Red Sun fixture is rocking the shit right now! In my 8 lamp fixture I got 4 Red Sun, 2 Blue Plus for the 460nm, and 2 Flora Sun for VEG and it is fucking growing amazing! Holy fucking shit, this is so cool! This combo is a keeper as it is the best I've seen so far. The leaves are all standing and reaching completely vertical. Putting an inch of growth a day in my F and D table! Glad I gave it a try! Thank you for the suggestions. So I will be able to do a comparison between the UVL 660 and the Red Suns as I have equal proportions in both fixtures. 4 UVL 660nm, 2 Blue Plus, 2 Flora Suns in one and 4 Red Suns, 2 Blue Plus, 2 Flora Suns in the other. Game on time!
I really think this is the perfect amount of red to blue for a veg setup. It's pretty much between 2:1 and 3:1 red to blue.
Peace
I really think this is the perfect amount of red to blue for a veg setup. It's pretty much between 2:1 and 3:1 red to blue.
Peace
Questions:
(1) Which Flora Suns - Zoo Med or Guiesseman ?
(2) What will you go to for Bloom?
Thanks.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Zoomed are the only Florasuns. You are thinking of aquaflora or something from giesemann.
I use a 5:1 red/blue ratio for bloom. Doesn't matter what brand lamp they are.
Thanks! Appreciated.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Must be Karma, LOL J/K
This happens with any T5 brand. If the glue/end caps isn't seated quite right on the end caps, the gas can leak out quickly. I just had to replace one of my TrueLumen lamps I just bought after firing it up once.
Don't sweat it, they will send you a replacement. It happens with T5's more than T12's or T8's because of the size factor I am guessing.
It won't cost you a cent extra, just don't get irate.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I believe the reason that some lamp manufacturers choose NOT to put 660nm in their lamps is because any extra 660nm can speed up algae growth. This is due to the high photosynthetic response that 660nm causes to plants.
630nm has less of a photosynthetic response, so they put it in the lamps to boost the "florescence" of the corals without increasing algae growth.
This is the reason I believe the ProColors were taken off the market. That and people said they washed out the appearance of their corals.
Overall, the 630nm wavelength is going to make the colors "pop" more in your aquarium because it is a visually "brighter" red light source.
660nm is going to increase growth rate faster than 630nm, I just haven't figured out how much faster yet. I would estimate it to be around 3 or 4 times faster growth with the 660nm over the 630nm.
It really is best to have both wavelengths in your spectrum in a 1:1 to 1:3 ratio of 630nm/660nm.
630nm has less of a photosynthetic response, so they put it in the lamps to boost the "florescence" of the corals without increasing algae growth.
This is the reason I believe the ProColors were taken off the market. That and people said they washed out the appearance of their corals.
Overall, the 630nm wavelength is going to make the colors "pop" more in your aquarium because it is a visually "brighter" red light source.
660nm is going to increase growth rate faster than 630nm, I just haven't figured out how much faster yet. I would estimate it to be around 3 or 4 times faster growth with the 660nm over the 630nm.
It really is best to have both wavelengths in your spectrum in a 1:1 to 1:3 ratio of 630nm/660nm.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Don't set your hopes too high. 300-400% is a huge difference. Blue heavy in veg was turning 4" clones into plants bigger than 5gal buckets in 15 days. If you can triple to quadruple that, I'd be genuinely shocked. Honestly though, it doesn't take particularly awesome light to veg. Save your money and expensive bulb life there. Flowering is where you really see the payout. By all means, feel free to experiment though; that's just my thoughts on it.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
very true.........
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I use 2 Quantum 6500s to veg/clone or 1 Q 6500 + 1 ATI Spec Blue Actinc (cause I own it)
[FONT=&]I tried to search first to see if my questions were already answered in this thread but I could not find them. If they are answered somewhere in here sorry I over looked them.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I'm going to be using two 16 bulb fixtures for lighting two grow rooms. one will be for veging, clones, and mother plants the other will be for flowering. What bulbs should I have in a 16 bulb fixture for both of these rooms?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I also would like to eventually use co2 in at least my flowering room. From what I understand about co2 use is that Ideally you want to get the room about 90-95[/FONT][FONT=&]F, 1,500 ppm CO2, 45-50% relative humidity, 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light. Will a 16 bulb fixture produce enough lumens for my plants to be able to make full use of the co2? My flower room will be 4ft x 4ft at most.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I think the requirement of 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light was calculated using a hps/mh light. Since hps/mh produce lumens from many unused wavelengths would the lumens required per square foot of light be less for the t5 lights that we use since they are only producing lumens on the wavelengths that are used for plant growth?[/FONT][FONT=&] In other words do I still need 7,500+ lumens/square foot of light if I'm using this method of t5 lighting and I also want to get the most out of co2? [/FONT]
*Edit*
I just realized lumen is a unit of measure for visible light. So, how would I go about figuring out if I have enough light to use co2 if I cant use lumens to measure it?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I'm going to be using two 16 bulb fixtures for lighting two grow rooms. one will be for veging, clones, and mother plants the other will be for flowering. What bulbs should I have in a 16 bulb fixture for both of these rooms?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I also would like to eventually use co2 in at least my flowering room. From what I understand about co2 use is that Ideally you want to get the room about 90-95[/FONT][FONT=&]F, 1,500 ppm CO2, 45-50% relative humidity, 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light. Will a 16 bulb fixture produce enough lumens for my plants to be able to make full use of the co2? My flower room will be 4ft x 4ft at most.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]I think the requirement of 7,500-10,000 lumens/square foot of light was calculated using a hps/mh light. Since hps/mh produce lumens from many unused wavelengths would the lumens required per square foot of light be less for the t5 lights that we use since they are only producing lumens on the wavelengths that are used for plant growth?[/FONT][FONT=&] In other words do I still need 7,500+ lumens/square foot of light if I'm using this method of t5 lighting and I also want to get the most out of co2? [/FONT]
*Edit*
I just realized lumen is a unit of measure for visible light. So, how would I go about figuring out if I have enough light to use co2 if I cant use lumens to measure it?
Fonzarelli
Active Member
If you are planning on flowering with CO2, how do you plan on raising temps with T5 HO lamps? Are you going to use a space heater and a dehumidifier to do the job?
Because if so, you pretty much defeated the purpose of T5 HO lamps in that all the electricity it will take to dehumidify the grow space, AND THEN heat up the air that the dehumidifier just got done cooling down will be quite a bit more than if you were to just use a HPS or MH which will heat and dehumidify your grow space for you.
The nice thing about HPS and MH and CO2 is that they work symbiotically together.
It's the same thing with LEDs. They don't heat up your canopy enough to induce proper respiratory action which prevents the plants from drawing up nutes and therefore stops growth. Ya pretty much gotta HEAT your grow room if you use LEDs or T5's with CO2.
Now your other option a CO2 generator because those burn propane or natural gas to produce your CO2, therefore you might be able to somehow use the waste heat from that to warm up your grow room. *DISCLAIMER* If the waste heat from a CO2 generator is meant to be vented outside because of CO emissions do not follow this advice. I have never used a CO2 generator before and am unaware at how they operate.
My suggestion if you are still going to use T5's for flowering is not to bother with CO2. I'm getting outstanding veg plants with the colored T5's which in turn is setting up my plants with strong stems, tight internodes, large fan leaves, healthy root base, all in a nice coco/perlite medium. I then use a combination of MH, T5's, and Leds to flower. Everything has always turned out rock hard, sticky as superglue, and tastier than koolade.
CO2 is nice, last year I harvested 14 dry ounces off of one plant. Yeah the plant was a 4 foot tree, but it grew in a 1 gallon bucket! Needless to say the roots got so thick I had to break the bucket just to get the plant out at harvest time. The root system got so dense it stopped draining water well and got a little root rot in one area.
CO2 can be a bit tricky if you don't have the other variables dialed in correctly. And if you don't, the CO2 will just float around the room and do nothing. Now if you live in an extremely hot environment already, more power to you. Make sure to keep your root zone cool when your room temps are above 90F!
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I hope you are ready to be genuinely shocked.
intenseneal
Well-Known Member
Very cool. I also am into Reef Aquarium keeping and when I got into growing I already knew that corals you the same types of lighting to live and grow as plants do. IAm running a 2ft 96W HO T5 freshwater aquarium plant fixture for my Veg cabinet and it is working very well, only running 6500K bulbs. I may look into the other T5 bulb options.View attachment 1101487View attachment 1101488View attachment 1101489View attachment 1101490View attachment 1101491
So when i decided to grow i started with a 400W hps and MH conversion bulb. I put up my tent and it was problem after problem. With the generous help from the people here i decided to throw away my setup and start from scratch. I purchased the Quantum Badboy 8 lamp T5. I started with the standard 6500k bulbs with some success. I wanted to buy an LED light but didnt have the money. So... i was at my buddies house and he has a LARGE aquarium and he showed me his bulbs..it clicked.. corals need light too and his lights produced the EXACT spectrum corals need to live and are capable of penetrating 3'+ of water. well corals and plants are very similar as they use the EXACT same light spectrum. Digging deeper i found bulbs that produce 410-460nm and 620-660 nm light.. That is also Exactly what LEDs put out..now putting one plus one together i decided to do a small test.. i bought 2 2' t5 lights ATI AND UVL Blue plus and Super Actinic. Explosive growth followed. i couldent believe my eyes. I was told on 4 different forums that actinic bulbs DO NOT WORK FOR plants boy were they really wrong!. i ahve since gone 100% T5 with various bulbs producing only yhe light spectrum that plants need. As you can see my plants are doing AMAZING for being grown with Actinic bulbs.2 of my bulbs are missing as they were broken upon arrrival. I will be changing out some of the blue bulbs with the deep red ones i found for flowering..they produce ONLY 630-660nm light. no other spectrum so i get 100% PAR. top that with MH...now i know what your thinking these lights are not bright at all... well its not about lumens.the human eye response isView attachment 1101463photosynthetic is View attachment 1101468, so your eyes do not see ALL the light these bulbs output. hardcore believers will flame me but let the math and the facts be known.HPS BULBS View attachment 1101469 Anyone notice a pattern here???? Lumens are not the ending factor to bud growth or you could not grow with LED. my sample grow i netted 1oz on a plant with only 116w. If your still in disbelief consider this, chect the spectrum charts for your coveted 3000k bulbs and overlay it with your chlorophyll response charts.. youll notice MOST of the light these bulbs prodice is outside the chloraphyll A+B peaks... now place the spectrums of my lights and overlay them...100% match.. seems to me im doing something right?
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
My plants hit high-80's at the canopy with no fan. I can make my grow room break 100F if I turned off the vent fan and sealed the tent. T5's produce alot of heat; it's just well dispersed over the whole body of the bulb, making cooling much easier. Think of the difference in surface area between 1 400W HID, and the 4 T5's that would be equivalent wattage, roughly. Long story short: you can get a room hot with a T5, no problems., as long as you don't vent it.If you are planning on flowering with CO2, how do you plan on raising temps with T5 HO lamps? Are you going to use a space heater and a dehumidifier to do the job?
Because if so, you pretty much defeated the purpose of T5 HO lamps in that all the electricity it will take to dehumidify the grow space, AND THEN heat up the air that the dehumidifier just got done cooling down will be quite a bit more than if you were to just use a HPS or MH which will heat and dehumidify your grow space for you.
The nice thing about HPS and MH and CO2 is that they work symbiotically together.
It's the same thing with LEDs. They don't heat up your canopy enough to induce proper respiratory action which prevents the plants from drawing up nutes and therefore stops growth. Ya pretty much gotta HEAT your grow room if you use LEDs or T5's with CO2.
Now your other option a CO2 generator because those burn propane or natural gas to produce your CO2, therefore you might be able to somehow use the waste heat from that to warm up your grow room. *DISCLAIMER* If the waste heat from a CO2 generator is meant to be vented outside because of CO emissions do not follow this advice. I have never used a CO2 generator before and am unaware at how they operate.
My suggestion if you are still going to use T5's for flowering is not to bother with CO2. I'm getting outstanding veg plants with the colored T5's which in turn is setting up my plants with strong stems, tight internodes, large fan leaves, healthy root base, all in a nice coco/perlite medium. I then use a combination of MH, T5's, and Leds to flower. Everything has always turned out rock hard, sticky as superglue, and tastier than koolade.
CO2 is nice, last year I harvested 14 dry ounces off of one plant. Yeah the plant was a 4 foot tree, but it grew in a 1 gallon bucket! Needless to say the roots got so thick I had to break the bucket just to get the plant out at harvest time. The root system got so dense it stopped draining water well and got a little root rot in one area.
CO2 can be a bit tricky if you don't have the other variables dialed in correctly. And if you don't, the CO2 will just float around the room and do nothing. Now if you live in an extremely hot environment already, more power to you. Make sure to keep your root zone cool when your room temps are above 90F!
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
in my 4x2x4 when i was running co2 and i would not vent that area for 3 hours often temps would get above 86.
ambient temps where about 70 at those times.
ambient temps where about 70 at those times.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Did you already buy the 16 bulb fixtures? If not, don't do it. Get 8 bulbs or, preferably, 4 bulb fixtures. Those huge panels are a pain to deal with and move around. Plus you get more efficient coverage with several smaller banks of light, not to mention adaptability increases.