Presidential Executive Privilege

[JustAnotherHead]

Obama has a completely different stance on this issue 2007. Hmmmm what changed his mind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpwYh9TD6Nc&feature=player_embedded

 

[StevenSD420]

I'm sorry; they forged documents relating to the failures of Wide Receiver? I didn't know that was the case; or are you just completely dismissing the network and any ONE individual who works there because of one person's idiotic behavior? That's nice.



So when you see a Walmart employee steal something from the stock room; are you still going to go back to Walmart?

 

[Truncheon]

It takes honest intelligence to defend one's convictions to the exclusion of reality.

Which "reality" is that, Canndo? The "reality" that 2,000 guns went to Mexico (LA Times) or the "reality" that maybe 400 guns went to Mexico (Human Events)? As I recall, the "reality" is what the LA Times said. Well, I mean, up until you posted that other "reality".

I seem to recall that other "reality" of yours, where you claimed that the Human Events "reality" confirmed the LA Times "reality". How much honest intelligence does it take to claim that 2,000 and 400 are the same number?

 

[canndo]

Your second source impugned your first source. That's the entire point. Yes, guns got to Mexico under Bush. Not 2,000 guns as the LA Times claimed (your first source which is impugned by me and your second source). And the Bush DOJ immediately shutdown the operation, because guns escaping into Mexico was not part of the plan. Unlike Fast and Furious, where letting the guns go to Mexico was precisely the plan.

You yourself demonstrated that the LA Times is not a good source.

Because they may have been mistaken? Because I purposefully used a rightist commentator who claimed that indeed the LA Times had been good (so far) at recounting the story? You implied that the difference between fast and furious and OWR was that the receivers of the guns were imediately arrested, I showed that this was not so - the only point I was making and the only point we have been arguing over. I showed you two perspectives in one article but I still showed the point I was making quite clearly. Your kneejerk reaction was to discount the portion of the LA Times story that ran contrary to your belief. That is impugning the source - rather than disproving the story - this has always been a lazy approach to argument and one that gets no one anywhere. For my sake, kindly tell me which news sources you consider acceptable.

Besides, Rush Limbaugh just stated that this whole thing is about trying to shut down the second amendment. And don't you dare impugn my source...

Because they may have been mistaken? Because I purposefully used a rightist commentator who claimed that indeed the LA Times had been good (so far) at recounting the story? You implied that the difference between fast and furious and OWR was that the receivers of the guns were imediately arrested, I showed that this was not so - the only point I was making and the only point we have been arguing over. I showed you two perspectives in one article but I still showed the point I was making quite clearly. Your kneejerk reaction was to discount the portion of the LA Times story that ran contrary to your belief. That is impugning the source - rather than disproving the story - this has always been a lazy approach to argument and one that gets no one anywhere. For my sake, kindly tell me which news sources you consider acceptable.

Rush, as I have said, is a self proclaimed entertainer and I will give you that he may entertain with opinion but it is HIS opinion and nothing more. Where is there evidence that "the whole thing is an attempt to shut down the 2nd amendment", or are his opinions always your own?

 

[JustAnotherHead]

I'm sorry; they forged documents relating to the failures of Wide Receiver? I didn't know that was the case; or are you just completely dismissing the network and any ONE individual who works there because of one person's idiotic behavior? That's nice.



So when you see a Walmart employee steal something from the stock room; are you still going to go back to Walmart?

They forged a bunch of documents which calls their entire operation into question. I mean they forged Presidential signatures for crying out loud.

 

[Truncheon]

Rush, as I have said, is a self proclaimed entertainer and I will give you that he may entertain with opinion but it is HIS opinion and nothing more.

Typical liberal, impugning sources....

Earth to Canndo, when it comes to politics, the LA Times is nothing but opinion and entertainment as well.

 

[canndo]

Which "reality" is that, Canndo? The "reality" that 2,000 guns went to Mexico (LA Times) or the "reality" that maybe 400 guns went to Mexico (Human Events)? As I recall, the "reality" is what the LA Times said. Well, I mean, up until you posted that other "reality".

I seem to recall that other "reality" of yours, where you claimed that the Human Events "reality" confirmed the LA Times "reality". How much honest intelligence does it take to claim that 2,000 and 400 are the same number?

the reality sir, that OWR did indeed allow, or send weapons across the border, contrary to your implication. If all you have is degree, quantity, a number other than 0 or 1 then you really have no argument at all. That it was 2000 instead of 400 is hardly relevent. Quantitative differences are just that. Of course 2000 is "worse than" 400 and you and the article may well be correct. Now, is oh, say 2000 murders that much different and that much less laudable than 400?
the realiy is that Obama has done nothing legislatively to prove to anyone that he is about to confiscate your firearms, the rest is all conjecture and nothing more. By the way, I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment to the point that I do not believe that weapons should be registered, it's a privacy thing, I'm big on privacy.

 

[JustAnotherHead]

Beuller? Beuller?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpwYh9TD6Nc&feature=player_embedded

 

[Truncheon]

the reality sir, that OWR did indeed allow, or send weapons across the border

Whatever the case, when there was no longer any control over the weapons, they shut down the operation for a failure. Uncontrolled weapons in the hands of criminals meant game over. This does not refute the *fact* that overall, this was a standard law enforcement operation, and was not entirely based on letting weapons go to Mexico. When they did try that, and then lost control, they stopped.

That is not what went down with Fast and Furious. Which is why Congress is now investigating Fast and Furious, but the Democrats when they took over the House and Senate in 2006 did not investigate George Bush despite how much they hated him. If they could have, they surely would have.

Now, in typical "Bush's fault" fashion, they're trying to blur the differences and make this seem like something other than what it was. Eric Holder has just now, today, a couple hours ago, been forced to retract his claim that the Bush DOJ had knowledge of this effort. This is the second retraction in the bogus storyline thus far.

The media is not going to be able to cover for Obama on this thing much longer.

 

[canndo]

Typical liberal, impugning sources....

Earth to Canndo, when it comes to politics, the LA Times is nothing but opinion and entertainment as well.

Yet again, I am saying nothing that Rush has not already said, a far cry from impugning a source, Surely you can see the difference? Nowhere have I seen the LA times proclaim itself as entertainment - at least the news gathering and reporting faction. They may be wrong, they may even be "biased" and report around that bias but some facts are hard to ignore. It is your opinion, that the Times is as you say.

 

[chrishydro]

They are about to vote on the contempt charge. Hands down it will pass and be sent to the floor. So much for Executive anything.. With that said it would be years before this is every an issue but still hurts the campaign.


He is done

 

[Truncheon]

Yet again, I am saying nothing that Rush has not already said, a far cry from impugning a source, Surely you can see the difference?

What I see is that you expect me to take the LA Times more seriously on factual matters than I take Rush Limbaugh. As if when they print a number, I can rely on that number to be accurate.

Sorry. There is no factually accurate traditional media in America anymore. The majority of the broadcast and print media is in the tank for liberalism and Democrats, and they serve as willing accomplices in fashioning opinion that assists the liberal agenda.

 

[canndo]

Whatever the case, when there was no longer any control over the weapons, they shut down the operation for a failure. Uncontrolled weapons in the hands of criminals meant game over. This does not refute the *fact* that overall, this was a standard law enforcement operation, and was not entirely based on letting weapons go to Mexico. When they did try that, and then lost control, they stopped.

That is not what went down with Fast and Furious. Which is why Congress is now investigating Fast and Furious, but the Democrats when they took over the House and Senate in 2006 did not investigate George Bush despite how much they hated him. If they could have, they surely would have.

Now, in typical "Bush's fault" fashion, they're trying to blur the differences and make this seem like something other than what it was. Eric Holder has just now, today, a couple hours ago, been forced to retract his claim that the Bush DOJ had knowledge of this effort. This is the second retraction in the bogus storyline thus far.

The media is not going to be able to cover for Obama on this thing much longer.

"whatever the case", meaning that you were indeed wrong about OWR? BTW - the Amtrak thing was sort of a fiasco, but He still allowed weapons to be transported on the train, or at least thought he did - now what legislative actions has he made that would support your case?

 

[JustAnotherHead]

liberal crickets chirping.....

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpwYh...layer_embedded​
  
  
  
  

 

[canndo]

What I see is that you expect me to take the LA Times more seriously on factual matters than I take Rush Limbaugh. As if when they print a number, I can rely on that number to be accurate.

Sorry. There is no factually accurate traditional media in America anymore. The majority of the broadcast and print media is in the tank for liberalism and Democrats, and they serve as willing accomplices in fashioning opinion that assists the liberal agenda.

Another

conspiracy then? All of the left wing media get together on thursdays and decide how best to thwart the conservative agenda, these news agencies that are invariably owned by large corporatons that are almost inherently conservative by nature. This happens constantly, all of the media lies but somehow each and every conservative knows the truth.. by osmosis one would imagine. I'll ask again, what are the acceptable news sources for our discussions?

 

[Truncheon]

"whatever the case", meaning that you were indeed wrong about OWR?

No, I knew that guns had got into Mexico, and that was why they shut it down. My point, though, was about the fundamental differences between the Bush operation, and the Obama operation. Controlling the weapons or making controlled busts was never the purpose of Fast and Furious, it was never a legit law enforcement action.

 

[Truncheon]

conspiracy then?

Was Pravda a conspiracy? No, not a conspiracy. An organized propaganda machine that gains benefits by serving liberal politicians.

Conspiracies are usually secret. The media doesn't even pretend to be balanced anymore, and they blatantly shill for leftist causes.

 

[canndo]

No, I knew that guns had got into Mexico, and that was why they shut it down. My point, though, was about the fundamental differences between the Bush operation, and the Obama operation. Controlling the weapons or making controlled busts was never the purpose of Fast and Furious, it was never a legit law enforcement action.

Originally Posted by Truncheon
The practice of walking contraband to bad guys while undercover, and then busting them right there on the spot when they exchange money for it, began a long time ago. Lots of people have done it, in many law enforcement organizations, all over America, for a long long time, including the Bush DOJ.
That's not what Obama and Holder did. They gave them guns, and let them go.

Right there on the spot, Including the Bush DOJ. As opposed to what Obama and Holder did. When in fact they both "gave them the guns and let them go". You can move those old goalposts all you like, it doesn't clear you of this particular statement. Rush? well, you havn't managed to address his claim that his show is entertainment. He offers "facts" when it is to his advantage to do so - for entertainment purposes.

 

[canndo]

Was Pravda a conspiracy? No, not a conspiracy. An organized propaganda machine that gains benefits by serving liberal politicians.

Conspiracies are usually secret. The media doesn't even pretend to be balanced anymore, and they blatantly shill for leftist causes.

I see you conveniently ignore the majority of my posts. How do all conservatives manage to get accurate information while the rest of us are so duped?

 

[canndo]

Was Pravda a conspiracy? No, not a conspiracy. An organized propaganda machine that gains benefits by serving liberal politicians.

Conspiracies are usually secret. The media doesn't even pretend to be balanced anymore, and they blatantly shill for leftist causes.

Pravda was one newspaper in a country where information was tightly controled - I would have thought you saw the difference.