• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Presidential Executive Privilege

canndo

Well-Known Member
Do they? Let's read your citation....

"Of course, “some” emails referring to Wide Receiver has absolutely no logical bearing on other emails referring specifically to Fast and Furious. I’m sure the next Republican Attorney General can count on the same kind of helpful spin and misdirection from the Washington Post ... Wide Receiver was less than one-quarter the size of Fast and Furious, involving about 500 guns ... Operation Wide Receiver was, by all accounts, shut down after its weapons dropped off the grid, and the ATF realized it had blundered.
...
Far from letting the Obama Administration “off the hook” because “Bush did it too,” an understanding of the full Operation Wide Receiver story makes the Obama scandal worse."

It would behoove you to actually *read* your citations, before you go shooting your mouth off at other people. LA Times says "2,000" guns got to Mexico, I said only 500 total guns were even involved. Human Events agrees with me, and disagrees with you and the LA Times.

Any questions? No, I didn't think so. Now I hope you understand why no thinking person accepts anything written in the LA Times at face value. The LA Times is a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNC.


Now, why do I have to do this? I never said anything about which was "worse" and I agree that this may BE worse.

Follow with me here. You said that Operation Wide Receiver was different than Fast and furious because the agents arrested the arms purchaser on the spot. I posted the LA times saying that OWR allowed them to "walk". You seem to have claimed that the LA Times is lying about their rendition of the facts. The article does not dispute that FACT, now does it - hence, your assertion that the guns were allowed only to fall into immediate hands is false.


Interesting that you would ignore this particular quote about the LA times from the article I linked:

"The L.A. Times, which has provided excellent coverage of the rapidly evolving Fast and Furious scandal, is curiously negligent in explaining Wide Receiver to its readers:"

Sure, they didn't explain the magnitude of the incident - but they seem to have accepted the proceedure as real.


It always seems to be the same, you will now move the goalposts thinking that I won't notice.
 

Justin00

Active Member
it's fine, no worries. but it still stands nationally. righties were not having apoplectic conniptions over the spending and debt until obama got in.

another thing you'll notice around here is that there are few if any liberals popping up every day with 3 posts and delving right into politics.

the righties get owned so often they resort to making up sock puppets.
well oh course they were not, it was there man doing it. and of course your not pissed now, its your guy doing it. That's what i don't understand. Does one republican fuck-tard fucking us over give the next democrat fuck-tard the right to also?

I'm saying we should all be pissed when Bush fucks us, and then be just as pissed when Obama does, and we should all be even more pissed when whoever we elect in november does the same damn thing like we know he will.

i will vote for who ever i think is best then, regardless of who wins i will complain and bitch about how they are not doing anything they said they would and have fallen just as deep into the corruption as the last.
 

Justin00

Active Member
Everybody in Congress, both parties, voted to authorize the war with the exception of like five people. Congress continued to fund the war, every budget cycle. The Congress is empowered to defund a war, that is its check on the Executive.

The Democrats voted to fund the war in vast majority, and then sought to pander to their base with a bunch of frivolous inquiries, threats of war crimes indictments, and other such laughable nonsense. To the point the Executive had to invoke privilege on a number of ocassions.

What we have with Obama is totally different. Bush *was* justified. Obama is *not* justified.
But wasn't bush pulling war funding form the economy rather than the typical war tax like usual? I'm sure that created some degree of complication for Congress when attempting to defund the war to check the out of control prez......

Just like we are having trouble controlling the current out of control prez.....
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
But wasn't bush pulling war funding form the economy rather than the typical war tax like usual? I'm sure that created some degree of complication for Congress when attempting to defund the war to check the out of control prez......

Just like we are having trouble controlling the current out of control prez.....
the current president inherited a structural deficit owing mainly to GOP predecessor's policies.

that structural deficit has at least not grown, which is more than you can say for any GOP douche since reagan got in.
 

Justin00

Active Member
the current president inherited a structural deficit owing mainly to GOP predecessor's policies.

that structural deficit has at least not grown, which is more than you can say for any GOP douche since reagan got in.
That's fine and i understand that, we were fighting a war that we did not tax our citizens to pay for, and it left our economy in shambles. I agree Bush fucked up major and left the US in a bad place.

But how does that make it OK that Obama is fucking us now? How does that make it ok that he is doing the same thing bush did to circumvent our checks and balances further fuck the country just like bush did.

You seem to think i have some love for Bush. I do not.

it doesn't mean much to me is some is R or D. i see our gov as a whole, and i think if more people did things could go a lot smoother. They need to work together for the betterment of the nation not squabble and do spiteful thing to each other at the cost of the people.

They are both assholes who went back on everything they promised and used there special situation to further destroy the foundation of our nation.
 

Truncheon

Member
righties were not having apoplectic conniptions over the spending and debt until obama got in.
Let's review the *facts*:

http://citation.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/3/9/6/5/2/pages396528/p396528-5.php

"Criticism of fiscal laxity or failure to support tax cuts among Republicans was commonplace in both National Review and The American Spectator before George W. Bush became president.
...
In April of 1998, the editorial board of National Review (1998) told the Republican Congress to “Go Home.” They argued that, “LITTLE or no good will come out of Capitol Hill for the remainder of the year. No tax cuts of any significance. No tax reform. No eliminations of Cabinet-level departments. Probably not even the termination of a single government program...
...
Later that year they (1998) blasted Senate Republicans for not pushing for a tax cut when the nation was running surpluses. “If taxes cannot be cut even with large surpluses, when can they be cut?” They chastised Republicans for not challenging the status quo in Washington and fearing a fight with Bill Clinton.
...
They argued that Congressional Republicans wanted to lift the cap to help pass the most expensive highway bill in history and labeled the conspirators as “fiscally reckless.” James Antle III (2008) criticized Congressional Republicans for the 1998 budget agreement and for caving to Bill Clinton during the budget stalemate of 1996.
...
After only sixteen months in office, conservatives had become worried with Bush’s unwillingness to veto, or even threaten to veto. Byron York (2002) wrote an article in National Review in June of 2002 titled “The Man Who Won’t Veto.” In it he outlined how Bush wouldn’t even threaten a veto to the recently passed farm bill, which sent a message to Congress that he would sign it no matter what was in it.
...
Conservatives have chafed at Bush’s willingness to sign all manner of spending bills, but when one’s party controls the Congress, fiscal restraint should be accomplished before the bills pass in the first place. That didn’t happen.
...
The editorial board of National Review used research from the conservative Heritage Foundation to point out Bush’s failure on federal spending.THE wave of post-Katrina spending is tipping President Bush’s fiscal record from bad to atrocious. We all know the litany that got us to this point: Bush has never vetoed a bill, even as Congress has agreed to fund an estimated 14,000 pork projects, up from around 1,000 in 1996; he has presided over a federal spending increase of 33 percent since 2001, with 55 percent of the increase in the last two years unrelated to defense, according to Brian Riedl of the Heritage Foundation; and he created a new entitlement, signing a $500 billion (and counting) prescription-drug bill. (National Review, 2005)"

Etc., etc., etc.

Perhaps you should stick to schoolyard trolling, since knowledge of actual reality seems beyond your reach.

Pretty laughable for you to tell Conservatives what they were doing, considering they were the ones actually doing it, and you weren't....
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
Try me. I do get tired of the insults to liberals, as though they might actually be arguments in themselves. They aren't.
I find it hard to muster the energy to argue with liberals. I have to expend energy at a job and stuff to provide for my family. All you guys do is watch Oprah and complain the working man doesn't give you enough.
 

Truncheon

Member
But wasn't bush pulling war funding form the economy
Sheesh. Okay, Constitution 101.

The President can't *pull funding* from anywhere. Only the House and Senate can tax, and spend. At any moment the Congress wants a war to end, they stop funding it.

That's the point. The Democrats took control of the House and Senate in 2006, two years before Bush left office and Obama was elected. They *continued* to fund the war, while doing frivolous things to make their radical leftwing pacifist base feel good. Everything they did was frivolous, intentionally, thus the justification for Bush's privilege claims.

That's not what is happening now, with Obama. Obama is red-handed, so is Holder, and they have no grounds to plea privilege.
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
Did the conspiracy book mention that Bush started the F&F???

I swear some of you who are so angry at taxes being taken out of your entry level jobs paycheck should just write up a book claiming whatever sounds scandalous about the Pres... it'll obviously sell well on amazon... and the best thing is you'll make your money and wont have to be angry at life or society anymore.

PEACE. =D

Oh look, a Mexican. Kindly remove the American flag for San Diego. It's Mexico now, thank for bankrupting the entire state.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I find it hard to muster the energy to argue with liberals. I have to expend energy at a job and stuff to provide for my family. All you guys do is watch Oprah and complain the working man doesn't give you enough.

Another drive by insult, you can't muster the energy to actually refute their arguments, but you can enough to insult them, more than a little typical. The fact is that I find very few conservatives who can actually prove their asessments of liberals and fewer who can hold a decent argument with them. This is Case in point.
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
sock puppets enjoy having fists up their asses.
HAHA I don't know who mind-fucked UncleDisablity, but it was a good mind-fucking. His posts are either an animated .gif or accusing someone of being some sock puppet he apparently proudly got banned? I assume this asshole with 20k posts in less than a year starts a lot of shit?
 

Truncheon

Member
actually refute their arguments
What argument, it's Bush's fault? That's not an argument. Bush did it too? That's not an argument.

The hallmark of a liberal, is that he is unwilling to actually *take* his own side in any argument. The liberal prefers not to argue or defend his "positions" at all. They just want to shut anyone up who says things they don't like, or they want to abuse them and call them names, or discredit them, or insult and taunt them.

Anything besides advancing an actual argument, and then defending it.
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-20115824.html

I should've corrected myself, he started the practice of GUN WALKING; and called it Wide Receiver.

Maybe you should do more research in these topics before jumping on the first few people who mistype some shit.

I'm an independent and both sides are fucking ridiculous with their behavior towards anyone with a different opinion.
Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for? The Dan Rather forged documents to make Bush look bad? Do you have any legitimate sources?
 

Truncheon

Member
I assume this asshole with 20k posts in less than a year starts a lot of shit?
I dunno. I signed up here yesterday so I could see the pictures in the "12/12 from seed" thread, got on today and clicked into the latest post based on the home page thingy, and this idiot is taunting me and calling me a sockpuppet. I gather he has issues forming friendships and playing nicely with others....
 

JustAnotherHead

New Member
i can't tell who's taking this whole rawn pawl is a loser thing worse, you or your big bruvva deprave.

deprave is chanting creepily about how much rawn won, while you are manically fail trolling like an autistic third grader with tourettes.

either way, i'm deriving great entertainment value put of it all, knowing what you must be going through with the defeat of your lord and savior, glorious king turtle fucker supreme.
Sentences you should start with capital letters you illiterate twat.
 

MacGuyver4.2.0

Well-Known Member





WASHINGTON | Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:04pm EDT


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama
administration on Wednesday defied the Republican-led U.S. House of
Representatives, invoking a claim of executive privilege as it refused to turn
over some documents related to a Mexican gun-running operation.


The move prompted the House Oversight and Government Operations Committee to
go ahead with plans to vote on charging U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder with
contempt of Congress.

The exchange set up yet another constitutional confrontation - the Supreme
Court battle over health care and immigration being the others - between
Republicans and the White House.

The "Fast and Furious" operation was meant to help federal law enforcement
agents follow the flow of guns from Arizona into Mexico, where they were thought
to fall into the hands of violent Mexican drug cartels.

But U.S. agents lost track of many of those weapons, which later were
involved in crimes, including the shooting death of U.S. Border Patrol agent
Brian Terry. Fast and Furious ran from late 2009 until early 2011.

Word of the botched operation prompted Congress to investigate the Obama
administration's handling of it.

Historically, Congress has had considerable difficulty enforcing contempt
citations and has ultimately relied on negotiated settlements following
protracted litigation to get the information it has sought.

The Democratic president and congressional Republicans have battled since
January, 2011, over everything from budget and tax policy to healthcare,
immigration and keeping basic government services running.

Tensions between President Barack Obama and Republicans in Congress are
expected to only worsen as the November 6 presidential and congressional
elections come closer.
More broadly, the dispute is one of dozens over the past half century between
the Congress and the White House, pitting Congress's investigative authority
against the president's privilege to protect internal communications. An
administration official noted that President George W. Bush asserted executive
privilege six times while President Bill Clinton asserted it 14 times to protect
documents. :finger:


Many of the struggles have wound up in the federal courts. Others have led to
negotiated agreements.

'ALL SHOW'

One of the problems Congress faces in these situations is the unwillingness
of the Department of Justice to let its prosecutors enforce contempt citations
against the executive branch, forcing Congress itself to bring suit in the
courts on its own.

"This is all show," said former House General Counsel Stanley Brand. "There's
no way to enforce these subpoenas. I know the press likes to say, 'Contempt.
Contempt.' The fact is that in the last 35 years, no Department of Justice will
prosecute an executive branch official under the contempt statute,
period."

He noted that when a Democratic Congress tried to pursue contempt charges
against Bush Administration, the House had to file a civil law suit that "that
took 2-plus years of litigation and they settled it. The chest beating about
contempt is silly, because everyone knows it's not going to get
enforced."

Holder has argued that over the past few months the Justice Department has
largely cooperated with Congress by turning over a substantial number of
documents to the Republican-led House Oversight and Government Reform
Committee.

But committee Chairman Darrell Issa has countered that the Obama
administration has been slow to respond to a committee subpoena and has withheld
important documents.

"I write now to inform you that the president has asserted executive
privilege over relevant ... documents," Deputy Attorney General James Cole wrote
to the committee.

Executive privilege allows the White House to argue that some private
communications between the president and members of his administration cannot be
divulged to Congress.
(in other words, that's how you cover your tracks or prevent critical evidence from being used against you)

Holder, in a letter to Obama, set out familiar legal arguments in support of
the executive privilege claim. "I am very concerned," he wrote, "that the
compelled production to Congress of internal Executive Branch documents
generated in the course of the deliberative process ... would have significant
damaging consequences" that would "inhibit the candor" of White House
deliberations now and in the future. :finger:


Issa responded by saying, "This untimely assertion by the Justice Department
falls short of any reason to delay today's proceedings."

If the House panel votes to charge Holder with contempt, it would then be up
to the full House to decide whether to bring that charge against the nation's
top law enforcement officer.

The process could take months or even years of court battles and further
poison the political atmosphere in a presidential election year.

For months, the committee and the Justice Department have been in
negotiations over documents related to federal law enforcement's handling of
Fast and Furious.

In his letter, Cole stated, "The Department has substantially complied with
the outstanding subpoena." He said the documents being withheld "pertain to
sensitive law enforcement activities, including ongoing criminal investigations
and prosecutions" or were "generally not appropriate for disclosure."

But Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner said, "Until
now, everyone believed that the decisions regarding ‘Fast and Furious' were
confined to the Department of Justice." He added, "The White House decision to
invoke executive privilege implies that White House officials were either
involved in the Fast and Furious operation or the cover-up that
followed.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
What argument, it's Bush's fault? That's not an argument. Bush did it too? That's not an argument.

The hallmark of a liberal, is that he is unwilling to actually *take* his own side in any argument. The liberal prefers not to argue or defend his "positions" at all. They just want to shut anyone up who says things they don't like, or they want to abuse them and call them names, or discredit them, or insult and taunt them.

Anything besides advancing an actual argument, and then defending it.
Not true, I am taking my own side,but I am also cognizant of reality. Now, have you seem me abuse anyone, call anyone names , discredit them or insult them? So far I have seen a number of those on the presumed right doing that very thing - And I am taking issue with it. You seem to ignore that Oprah insult in your assessment of liberals.

Truncheon? You have yet to address Obama's signing of that Fed land gun toting bill. THis must be the fourth time I've asked. (and yes, I will be accused of taunting conservatives when they can't come up with something akin to reason, or they ignore legitimate questions)
 
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