Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Goals are good but results are poor?
What would you call this 'result' of a mess we're all facing right now exactly?
What would you call this 'result' of a mess we're all facing right now exactly?
Do You Support The "Occupy"Protests?
- Thread starter Tales
- Start date
mccumcumber
Well-Known Member
I wasn't saying that we should be marxist, I was just saying that filthlyfizzle has no idea what he's talking about.
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
Seriously? Yeah, this country is in shambles, I mean, certainly MOST of the people are destitute, most can't find food or opportunity, almost no access to education, I mean look at the literacy rates. That's all sarcasm for the doom and gloomers out there. The reality is that this is the greatest society in history. While other systems have sought social justice as a primary objective, no other system has done more to achieve it.
Please list for me the top 5 objectives that you would wish a society to achieve. Humor me.
dukeanthony
New Member
These Whiners have never Been overseas and seen what real countries that are fucked up are
You dont even have to go that far
Go to Puerto Rico or mexico
Poor people there starve to death on the streets
Poor people here are Obese
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Strawman.
What you have is a happy little illusion of these things. Why do all the polls indicate most Americans support OWS?
By what standard?
Are you talking about America as a nation/society, or all of western civilization, democracy, capitalism?
-freedom - in the simplest terms, this would mean things like freedom over ones own body/mind, the freedom to do whatever you want until it encroaches upon someone elses freedom
-equality - pretty easy to understand, you get what I get, I get what you get, I don't get special treatment for any reason, neither do you.
-educated society - fuck yes in my society, education is free, as far as you want to go. 30, 40, 50 years, your whole life, the state pays for it. Educated individuals are better for the society.
-zero poverty - as every first world nation should be
-free health care - as every first world nation should have
I would also throw SHIT LOADS of $$$ into every science and art dept. Science is good for the society and I think artistic and creative people engineer the future, also good for the society.
No state sanctioned murders and substantially reduced military and 'defense' policy.
"Pad 2024"
Go to wiki, look up some statistics on our society.
I don't buy the argument "theirs is worse, so that makes ours the best ever!"
That is just silly. Are you too proud an American YEE HAW! to admit where we have flaws? Capitalism has inherent flaws, our monetary system has inherent flaws.. Legal systems, police, there is shit inherently wrong with certain things within our society. I see just about every month somebody getting gunned down in a barrage of bullets fired by police raiding an innocent guys house suspected of selling drugs or something similar, they fire like 40-60 bullets! No cop gets held accountable for the deaths of innocent people. Look around, this SYSTEM is inherently messed up. So many of the citizens IDOLIZE merchandise. I look around even at my own family, the closest people I know, all they care about is material wealth, it's like a status symbol. We shouldn't be bent on buying the biggest house, getting the most expensive car, caring who is wearing what at the movie awards, meaningless, pointless, materialistic bullshit like that.
..You ask people you know any deep or meaningful question and they look at you like you might as well be from outer space or give a generic response, like a talking point. You see how easily untrained or unaware people get manipulated by the system itself.
Top 5 things wrong with the system we live in?
cerberus
Well-Known Member
you ever been to mexico? you ever been to Honduras? costa rico? argentina? I mention that because it looks like its you that is brainwashed and never actually seen the world. those "shit" wholes are beautiful places with good decent people, who just like you or I, are kind hearted. as far as obese rates go, poor people are obese? seriously that makes it ok, that we are fed cheap poison's dressed up like food and thats better?
you are seriously miss informed if you think mexico or PR are such bad places..
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
change is coming, there isn't anything anyone can do about it. we know your comfortable, enjoy it while you still can. i dont think theres much any president can do to prevent what is coming. a revolution is inevitable, and that will result in what type of government we have. if people use revolution as they always have in fear and anger there will be pillaging, murder and rape among many other nasty things. the people will beg for a solution to this chaos in we will inevitably end up in another oligarchy or tyranny. if it is a peaceful revolution based on love instead of fear it will be much different, but i cant tell you what will happen if it comes out this way, because its never happened before. i believe Marx was onto something in his manifesto.
The Communist Manifesto opens with a statement of its purpose, to publicize the views, aims and tendencies of the Communists. As such it is a document intended to be read by the public, and it is meant to be easily grasped by a general audience. It is also meant to be a broad description of what Communism is, both as a theory and as a political movement.
In this first section, Marx already introduces several of the key ideas of his theory. One main idea is that all of history until now is the story of a series of class struggles. Underlying all of history, then, is this fundamental economic theme. The most important concept being discussed here is the concept that each society has a characteristic economic structure. This structure breeds different classes, which are in conflict as they oppress or are oppressed by each other. However, this situation is not permanent. As history "marches" on, eventually the means of production cease to be compatible with the class structure as-is. Instead, the structure begins to impede the development of productive forces. At this point, the existing structure must be destroyed. This explains the emergence of the bourgeoisie out of feudalism. It will also explain the eventual destruction of the bourgeoisie. Marx believes that all of history should be understood in this way--as the process in which classes realign themselves in compliance with changing means of production.
Perhaps the most significant aspect of this theory of history is what it does not deem important. In Marx's theory, history is shaped by economic relations alone. Elements such as religion, culture, ideology, and even the individual human being, play a very little role. Rather, history moves according to impersonal forces, and its general direction is inevitable.
Marx believes that this type of history will not go on forever, however. The Manifesto will later argue that the modern class conflict is the final class conflict; the end of this conflict will mark the end of all class relations. This section begins to suggest why this might be, positing some of the ways in which the modern era is unique. First, class antagonisms have been simplified, as two opposing classes, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, emerge. Secondly, while exploitative relationships were previously hidden behind things like ideology, now the veil has been lifted and everything is seen in terms of self- interest. Thirdly, in order for the bourgeoisie to continue to exist, they must continually revolutionize the instruments of production. This leaves social relations in an unprecedentedly unstable state.
The Communist Manifesto opens with a statement of its purpose, to publicize the views, aims and tendencies of the Communists. As such it is a document intended to be read by the public, and it is meant to be easily grasped by a general audience. It is also meant to be a broad description of what Communism is, both as a theory and as a political movement.
In this first section, Marx already introduces several of the key ideas of his theory. One main idea is that all of history until now is the story of a series of class struggles. Underlying all of history, then, is this fundamental economic theme. The most important concept being discussed here is the concept that each society has a characteristic economic structure. This structure breeds different classes, which are in conflict as they oppress or are oppressed by each other. However, this situation is not permanent. As history "marches" on, eventually the means of production cease to be compatible with the class structure as-is. Instead, the structure begins to impede the development of productive forces. At this point, the existing structure must be destroyed. This explains the emergence of the bourgeoisie out of feudalism. It will also explain the eventual destruction of the bourgeoisie. Marx believes that all of history should be understood in this way--as the process in which classes realign themselves in compliance with changing means of production.
Perhaps the most significant aspect of this theory of history is what it does not deem important. In Marx's theory, history is shaped by economic relations alone. Elements such as religion, culture, ideology, and even the individual human being, play a very little role. Rather, history moves according to impersonal forces, and its general direction is inevitable.
Marx believes that this type of history will not go on forever, however. The Manifesto will later argue that the modern class conflict is the final class conflict; the end of this conflict will mark the end of all class relations. This section begins to suggest why this might be, positing some of the ways in which the modern era is unique. First, class antagonisms have been simplified, as two opposing classes, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, emerge. Secondly, while exploitative relationships were previously hidden behind things like ideology, now the veil has been lifted and everything is seen in terms of self- interest. Thirdly, in order for the bourgeoisie to continue to exist, they must continually revolutionize the instruments of production. This leaves social relations in an unprecedentedly unstable state.
FilthyFizzle
Active Member
What are you trying to say here? Marxism is an idea. I dont care about marxism I just care about avoiding the isms. I believe the world is heading for socialism and/or communism. Look up Post-Capitalism and take your pick. I said china, germany, russia, korea to give other readers an example of communist and socialist (in case they werent aware). See for yourself who is Socialist and Communist and even some ruling Communist Parties. Socialism has been lurking in the shadows all along. Political correctness? Gay rights? Social justice lol The socialist pair with atheist, democrats and repiblicans. Socialism is infecting the world.. You say free and equal with communism, do you really believe that? To my knowledge there are many several kinds of communism and socialism to predict what will follow post capital. Most likely the two parties will work together then split up after the fact.
I dont get what your point was.. You know more about Marx than I do?
I'm just saying the occupy message is end capitalism and socialism or communism will replace it. Do you support eliminating capitalism?
FilthyFizzle
Active Member
You guys are hopeless. Just wanted to say OWS goals=Socialism
dukeanthony
New Member
Yeah I been to Both PR and Mexico as well as aruba st croix bermuda philippines korea japan thailand
I seen poor people sleeping on Cardbboard that weighed 85 pounds.
And yes I observe people in the USA that use Food stamps tend to be FAT
And I never implied they wree bad people
I said that poor people there Starve to death
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
This is going to be very difficult if you are going to make up facts or distort them to mean what you want them to mean. Please show me these polls that indicate that most Americans Support OWS and it's beliefs, not OWS right to protest. Even then, it's easy to find polls that indicate that not "most" American's support even that right.Strawman.
What you have is a happy little illusion of these things. Why do all the polls indicate most Americans support OWS?
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-favor-fading.html
http://polhudson.lohudblogs.com/2011/11/15/siena-poll-occupy-wall-street-doesnt-represent-99-percent/
Either one. Most specifically democracy and capitalism, but the US is the obvious example.
Please name for me a greater society that has done more to achieve your 5 stated goals listed below. A more socialist, feudalist, statist, or communist example would obviously be best for your argument.
Freedom? Collectivism....freedom...collectivism....freedom? Where are freedom's most supressed and people most opressed throughout history and in modern times? In a system of central control you believe that you could achieve greater amounts of individual freedom? You MUST sacrifice your freedom for the 'better' good as a main principle of collectivism/central control. It's absolutely fundamental.
Even if we all get nothing? It's all good as long we are ALL poor and starving? Even if it means that no individual person could ever venture out to take a risk and create something great? Only the government can do that? Without private capital do you think that Henry Ford could have made the automobile? A society will become stagnant of the great potential of the individual is diminished. There less exists the opportunity to produce, to create and to achieve when your goals, objectives and missions are handed down to you by your rulers.
The state pays for it? You mean the people pay for it? There is no great "state" that just makes up the means to pay for the services for it's people. There's no "free" anything. Somebody has to teach the children. Somebody has to build the schools. Somebody has to feed the people that build the schools, and teach the children, somebody has to raise the crops and livestock to provide the food to feed the people that build the schools, and so on and so on.
What to do about those that refuse to work? Those that refuse to participate in your great society? What about the percentages of people that aren't going to get up every day and do as their masters have ordered? Should they still be just rewarded just as well as one who went to college, spent the hours of their lives sacrificing for the "better good"?
-That's just repeating the same thing so...nothing is free
What shitloads of money? Where is all of this excess money going to come from? Remember you are confiscating it from the people who are working to give it to the people who refuse. Either that or your throwing those that refuse in jail, but those aren't free either.
That one is easy to agree on.
Any in particular? What am I supposed to do with that?
I don't remember making that argument. Well, that argument actually does make sense, if all the others are worse, than technically yeah, that would be called the "best", but I know what you're getting at.
The argument I'm making is that collectivism isn't the answer.
The system is not inherently messed up. "Crony Capitalism" and "Capitalism" are two very different things. The problem with our society isn't that capitalism is evil and doens't work. The problem is that we allow money to move from the private sector to the public sector. The lobby and Campaign Finance systems are the poison. Capitalism isn't the problem, it's the private sector having the influence that it does to wield the overwhelming power we've given to the gov't.
If OWS was about Campaign Finance and Lobby Reform (getting the money out of politics) and nothing more, nothing less, you would see HUGE support #'s. I think all americans can understand the concept that when decisions are made on the influence of special interest over the general interest, society loses. It's simple to understand to anyone that you explain it to, no matter how stupid they look at you while talking that there's no reason for this and that it's the poison that chokes are system, not greed.
Right, they are apathetic now, imagine if they didn't HAVE to do anything to survive.
1. We allow our politicians to be bought off in support of the special interest of the general interest. The few win, the masses lose.
2. The Media - 'Nuff said there.
3. War - The use of our national defense to promote those special interests that have ought our representatives. Our "national defense" has become an arm for the will of the rulers and commanders instead of an instrument to protect from foreign invaders.
4. Immigration - We need to secure our borders and stop allowing people to simply walk over. But on the flip side of that, we need to allow anyone who wants to come here to do so legally. As long as a person does not have a criminal background and is accounted for, why shouldn't they be extended the right to live in the greatest society ever created by man? Why should you or I be so priviledged as to be able to pursue our own self interests, but not your fellow man?
5. Welfare - We need to clean up and reform it. Right now it's a hole for people to fall into rather than a system to help build people up. Nothing is more damaging to people than convincing them they are worthless, then paying them to stay that way.
Again, it's not capitalism that doesn't work. The free market economic system, and a system of democracy are benefiical to society. Cronyism and corruption are the enemy of all societies and we do as little as we can here to stop it. We need to get together and say "We are going to ammend the constitution in our lifetime" and we are going to get the corruption out. We need to leave something behind for our kids that is better than we were handed and this is the only way. Collectivism isn't the answer, thousands of years of history show that.
Nothing keeps the corruption out of those systems and you don't empower the individuals to stand up to do something about it. The ones making the decisions are the ones with the guns.
We need reformation, not transformation.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;XeCpLcjxOq4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XeCpLcjxOq4#![/video]
i agree with OWS
[video=youtube;wbvift3Kb34]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wbvift3Kb34[/video]
i agree with OWS
[video=youtube;wbvift3Kb34]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wbvift3Kb34[/video]
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Have you ever read The Communist Manifesto? Without looking it up, could you tell me what communism/socialism is?
The military is socialized, police, firefighters, public libraries - all socialized.
"I don't care what it is, I just know I've been told to avoid it" Huh?
Using previous examples of social and economic systems of government that have failed in the past would be a great way to fail moving into the future. From your posts, I'm under the impression that you seem to think it's either our current way or communist/socialist past societies. This is a false dichotomy, I am not proposing we use another failed system of government.
Again, false dichotomy. It's not "our way or the old way!" it's "a NEW way".
Political correctness and gay rights are socialism? Again, huh?
Where did I ever say such a thing?
That's not the message of OWS.
I support ending crony capitalism and ending the federal reserve, that is a good start. I would like to see the individual take responsibility and grow out of the age of materialism, but that's the essence of what it means to be free. You want to waste all your money on the newest shiniest overpriced object, be my guest. Being a hollow materialistic shell of a person is your right.
You are being told misinformation and outright lies.
"Anyone who says he has no idea what these folks are protesting is not being truthful. Whether we agree with them or not, we all know what they are upset about, and we all know that there are investment bankers working on Wall Street getting richer while things for most of the rest of us are getting tougher. What upsets banking's defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns...They mean to show that there is an inappropriate and correctable disconnect between the abundance America produces and the scarcity its markets manufacture." -Douglas Rushkoff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/occupy-wall-street-poll_n_1027109.html
From the first link;
"I don't think any of that has changed- what the downturn in Occupy Wall Street's image suggests is that voters are seeing the movement as more about the 'Occupy' than the 'Wall Street.' The controversy over the protests is starting to drown out the actual message."
The US is not a direct democracy. It's a representative republic. Like I said before, people are under the happy little illusion we live in a direct democracy (something OWS supports).
Whether one exists or not is irrelevant. The point I was making is that these are the things we should be focusing on as a society at large. Not the bullshit we currently do.
What is with the idea that since we live in relative comfort when compared to much of the rest of the world we can't point out the flaws our society has? This is the signature of a coward. We recognize what's wrong, just like a doctor, and correct the problem. We don't sit on the problem and let it get worse before we do anything about it.
Where did I mention a 'system of central control'?
Social equality, equal rights. That's what I meant by 'equality'.
Yes, you and I and our tax dollars pay for any amount of education any American citizen wants to achieve.
Those that refuse to work get to live their lives as they see fit. Essence of freedom.
Free to the citizen.
Invest in innovation, not destruction. It's all about allocation, and right now our priorities are ROYALLY FUCKED UP.
The monetary system isn't inherently flawed? The entire economic system the United States uses?
I agree
This, among greed.
Do you think all people are just naturally lazy fucks? If we didn't have to work to survive, none of us would? We'd just sit home and smoke pot all day and watch tv? Really?
Reformation is off the table unless we force it. That's the point of the protests.
mccumcumber
Well-Known Member
I like your style of laying down the logic padawan.
researchkitty
Well-Known Member
Researchkitty's guide to joining the 1%
-------------------------------------
Step #1 - Learn to grow pot
Step #2 - Grow pot
Step #3 - Sell it
Step #4 - Repeat Steps 1-4
-------------------------------------
Step #1 - Learn to grow pot
Step #2 - Grow pot
Step #3 - Sell it
Step #4 - Repeat Steps 1-4
cerberus
Well-Known Member
you don't see that same poverty here? my point being that poverty is rampant and to assume its not here, or to imply that a tax payer payed system that feeds poverty with corporate poison disguised as food is the better alternative.
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
Too hard to keep quoting back and forth. I smoke too much pot for that shit so I'm just going to number the points since we are discussing multiple topics
1) The millitary is the only example you gave of a socialized society. I don't know what your point was mentioning librarians and police/fire, those people are paid and live in our society. If this is just about the fact that they the "people" are given commands from above and they are to be followed blindly...then yes, that aspect of it being socialized is true.
2) The inherent flaw - No. The free market system is not flawed when coupled with a governing body that balances the will of the will of the people and the will of special interests. The problem isn't with the system itself, it's with the bastardization of the system. The whoring out and manipulating is the problem.
3) Greed - Well, then you and I again differ. I don't believe that greed is an evil. I believe that what you call greed is what other call motivators. If I can provide better for my family by being more productive for society as awhole, I don't find that evil. If I currently employee 3 people and I bust my butt and work hard to grow my business so that next year I can make more for my family and hire another empoloyee, buy another machines, etc, then I should do so and CERTAINLY have the right to do it.
4) Do I believe that all people are laze - Without motivation, yes. Look at the current welfare state. Give people a chance not to produce and they will take it. It's not a function of "lazyness" as you would like to categorize the problem. If I could just as easily play pool, smoke weed, drink and hang out with my friends all day, why would I get up each day instead and say work at the gas station? What is to motivate me each morning when my alarm buzzes, to get up and be there on time? Are we to jail those that don't comply?
5) Reformation - This is not off of the table. We are the people in a nation where the people rule. I know it doesn't feel like it, but we do hold the ultimate power. I agree with protesting, not so much with camping. I agree with DEMANDING campaign finance reform. I'm all for deamnding that the money be taken out of politics. BUT, that means that I associate with the groups who follow this purpose. I don't believe in free gov't education, it's not free. We decided that the right was to a k-12 education in this country, higher education is not a right. BTW- Do you happen to know the unemployment rate for those with a bachelors degree? Just over 4% compared to 15% for those that don't even have a high school diploma or 9.5% for those that have only a high school diploma. If you pay for your education and you invest in yourself, it does pay you back, for years and years and years. Why do you feel you need the gov't to provide you this at the cost of your freedom when you are finished?
We have a lot of the same beliefs, but our differences are what keep OWS from success. Narrow the message further. Stop asking for collectivism, and yes, that's what it means when you say you want free education, zero poverty, and all of the other stated socialist/communist goals that they never achieve. They are better achieved through capitalism, particularly if the integrity of the gov't is maintained. If OWS was ONLY about DEMANDING Campaign Finance and Lobby Reform and ammending the constitution as such for our children and our childrens children, it would EXPLODE. This banking disaster is EXACTLY what was needed for the people to open their eyes and see what is going on. To no longer accept it and to take their gov't back.
But OWS? I haven't been to OWS, I have been to OLA and it's NOT what we need to get moving in the right direction. I met a lot of people who felt a geat shared sense of frustration, but unfortunately most of what was aspoused was frustration that somehow they have not yet received enough benefit from their government. I get that we paid for it, but the problem isn't that we should have benefited from it, this is an example of why socialism doesn't work, we never should have paid for it.
Why does the gov't own a car company?
Why do they pay money to banks? In what system does that make sense?
Why do we pay people not to work?
Why do we pay so much for education, but get so little?
Why are the most "progressive" (really it's regressive) states like California seem to be fairing the worst?
Why aren't we upset that the gov't has confiscated these funds that represent the cumulative labor hours and production hours of OUR lives, simply to GIVE it to people who are able bodied and can make for themselves?
I think that we and MOST americans can agree on a few simple things...why make the focus so wide when you get such unilateral support on the more important and pressing issue of Campaign Finance Reform and Lobby Reform?
That's why I don't support the Occupy Protests. That and I don't believe that 200 people camping on the lawn of 40 city halls is as effective as a million people marching on Washington. OLA destroyed the lawn of City Hall and didn't achieve anything. It couldn't, the people in City Hall have nothing to do with your grievances. They painted signs and sang songs to the wrong people. They've done it all over, but it doesn't do anything unless the whores in Washington drive by it everyday and see that they've been called out.
1) The millitary is the only example you gave of a socialized society. I don't know what your point was mentioning librarians and police/fire, those people are paid and live in our society. If this is just about the fact that they the "people" are given commands from above and they are to be followed blindly...then yes, that aspect of it being socialized is true.
2) The inherent flaw - No. The free market system is not flawed when coupled with a governing body that balances the will of the will of the people and the will of special interests. The problem isn't with the system itself, it's with the bastardization of the system. The whoring out and manipulating is the problem.
3) Greed - Well, then you and I again differ. I don't believe that greed is an evil. I believe that what you call greed is what other call motivators. If I can provide better for my family by being more productive for society as awhole, I don't find that evil. If I currently employee 3 people and I bust my butt and work hard to grow my business so that next year I can make more for my family and hire another empoloyee, buy another machines, etc, then I should do so and CERTAINLY have the right to do it.
4) Do I believe that all people are laze - Without motivation, yes. Look at the current welfare state. Give people a chance not to produce and they will take it. It's not a function of "lazyness" as you would like to categorize the problem. If I could just as easily play pool, smoke weed, drink and hang out with my friends all day, why would I get up each day instead and say work at the gas station? What is to motivate me each morning when my alarm buzzes, to get up and be there on time? Are we to jail those that don't comply?
5) Reformation - This is not off of the table. We are the people in a nation where the people rule. I know it doesn't feel like it, but we do hold the ultimate power. I agree with protesting, not so much with camping. I agree with DEMANDING campaign finance reform. I'm all for deamnding that the money be taken out of politics. BUT, that means that I associate with the groups who follow this purpose. I don't believe in free gov't education, it's not free. We decided that the right was to a k-12 education in this country, higher education is not a right. BTW- Do you happen to know the unemployment rate for those with a bachelors degree? Just over 4% compared to 15% for those that don't even have a high school diploma or 9.5% for those that have only a high school diploma. If you pay for your education and you invest in yourself, it does pay you back, for years and years and years. Why do you feel you need the gov't to provide you this at the cost of your freedom when you are finished?
We have a lot of the same beliefs, but our differences are what keep OWS from success. Narrow the message further. Stop asking for collectivism, and yes, that's what it means when you say you want free education, zero poverty, and all of the other stated socialist/communist goals that they never achieve. They are better achieved through capitalism, particularly if the integrity of the gov't is maintained. If OWS was ONLY about DEMANDING Campaign Finance and Lobby Reform and ammending the constitution as such for our children and our childrens children, it would EXPLODE. This banking disaster is EXACTLY what was needed for the people to open their eyes and see what is going on. To no longer accept it and to take their gov't back.
But OWS? I haven't been to OWS, I have been to OLA and it's NOT what we need to get moving in the right direction. I met a lot of people who felt a geat shared sense of frustration, but unfortunately most of what was aspoused was frustration that somehow they have not yet received enough benefit from their government. I get that we paid for it, but the problem isn't that we should have benefited from it, this is an example of why socialism doesn't work, we never should have paid for it.
Why does the gov't own a car company?
Why do they pay money to banks? In what system does that make sense?
Why do we pay people not to work?
Why do we pay so much for education, but get so little?
Why are the most "progressive" (really it's regressive) states like California seem to be fairing the worst?
Why aren't we upset that the gov't has confiscated these funds that represent the cumulative labor hours and production hours of OUR lives, simply to GIVE it to people who are able bodied and can make for themselves?
I think that we and MOST americans can agree on a few simple things...why make the focus so wide when you get such unilateral support on the more important and pressing issue of Campaign Finance Reform and Lobby Reform?
That's why I don't support the Occupy Protests. That and I don't believe that 200 people camping on the lawn of 40 city halls is as effective as a million people marching on Washington. OLA destroyed the lawn of City Hall and didn't achieve anything. It couldn't, the people in City Hall have nothing to do with your grievances. They painted signs and sang songs to the wrong people. They've done it all over, but it doesn't do anything unless the whores in Washington drive by it everyday and see that they've been called out.
dukeanthony
New Member
No I dont
Even the homeless in Metro Areas eat everyday
And dont say i am full of shit either
25 years ago I went thru a stretch of being homeless and without a job
FilthyFizzle
Active Member
Padawanbater2,
I have never read the Communist Manifesto... Ya got me. Should I read it?
I haven't been told anything. I get my own info. You know nothing about me. Oh and apparently you thought I was talking to you but I was actually to mccumcumber ya dumb shit... I believe you said HUH?
Lets get some things straight bitch. I'm not into shiny things, except for a nice shiny car lol (don't want it to be dirty like the occupy people). I'm not main stream anything. I eat organic and buy local. I support the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Not a fan of BHO but a big fan of Butane Honey Oil. I am prepared to survive without electricity or oil. I can shoot before I'm shot and I can get laid whenever I want.. I don't want to fight, but I will if I have to. I've been on this earth for twenty three years and have seen a lot of shit. I don't support John Stewart or Glenn Beck(Mormon) or any other news organization for that matter. I've lived on the east coast and west coast. I know shit you couldn't imagine. What can you do? Beg for a bailout on your student loan and hold a sign?
You want to end crony capitalism and I agree with that. What would you replace it with? I hope you say regular capitalism..You want to end the Fed and I agree with that as well.
The place where we switch views is where you think its the corporations fault that we have been raped over the years when really it's our Governments fault for allowing it to happen. Think about it. Is it the banks fault for accepting money from bailouts or the governments fault for giving it out? They are occupying the wrong place at the wrong time. We should be passing new laws that limits what the government can do and downsizing the actual spending per year. Not spending more but getting a good deal and calling it spending less. Nothing I can do about any of it now. The end phase has begun, they have too much power.
If there is ever an occupy The White House I'll see you there
Its not Wall St. Its the White House man. This is all a cover up so the government doesn't get the blame for the economy. It's all hand in hand all over the world. Foreign policy isn't just military it's business deals. Everything is business to the power holders.
I'm not saying all of the people of OWS are bad people or have a socialist/communist agenda, but some do. There are a lot of ignorant people saying ignorant things as well. Idk I just don't think this movement is going to help the 99%
I'm the 73.3% that wants to slap some sense into the other 25.7% and tell them to get a job.
I have never read the Communist Manifesto... Ya got me. Should I read it?
I haven't been told anything. I get my own info. You know nothing about me. Oh and apparently you thought I was talking to you but I was actually to mccumcumber ya dumb shit... I believe you said HUH?
Lets get some things straight bitch. I'm not into shiny things, except for a nice shiny car lol (don't want it to be dirty like the occupy people). I'm not main stream anything. I eat organic and buy local. I support the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Not a fan of BHO but a big fan of Butane Honey Oil. I am prepared to survive without electricity or oil. I can shoot before I'm shot and I can get laid whenever I want.. I don't want to fight, but I will if I have to. I've been on this earth for twenty three years and have seen a lot of shit. I don't support John Stewart or Glenn Beck(Mormon) or any other news organization for that matter. I've lived on the east coast and west coast. I know shit you couldn't imagine. What can you do? Beg for a bailout on your student loan and hold a sign?
You want to end crony capitalism and I agree with that. What would you replace it with? I hope you say regular capitalism..You want to end the Fed and I agree with that as well.
The place where we switch views is where you think its the corporations fault that we have been raped over the years when really it's our Governments fault for allowing it to happen. Think about it. Is it the banks fault for accepting money from bailouts or the governments fault for giving it out? They are occupying the wrong place at the wrong time. We should be passing new laws that limits what the government can do and downsizing the actual spending per year. Not spending more but getting a good deal and calling it spending less. Nothing I can do about any of it now. The end phase has begun, they have too much power.
If there is ever an occupy The White House I'll see you there
Its not Wall St. Its the White House man. This is all a cover up so the government doesn't get the blame for the economy. It's all hand in hand all over the world. Foreign policy isn't just military it's business deals. Everything is business to the power holders.
I'm not saying all of the people of OWS are bad people or have a socialist/communist agenda, but some do. There are a lot of ignorant people saying ignorant things as well. Idk I just don't think this movement is going to help the 99%
I'm the 73.3% that wants to slap some sense into the other 25.7% and tell them to get a job.
