LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

Calrt said:
Got my 8 bulb Bad Boy, the quality was a little lacking and had a loose wire and cut off zip ties floating around. The plug connector had a screw missing and was inside the enclosure too...the overall quality control is a joke...The design is nice though.

Anyway I got it fixed up and working, I only have my 3 Fiji Purps at the moment. Both grow tents are set up, 8 bulb T5 in one and 600w Sun System hood with 6" air cooled and a Lumatek Digital ballast in the other. I will be picking up my 2x4 trays today and my hydro plumbing should be here tomorrow. I want to have everything dialed in before my "ready to flower plants" arrive.

They will be in the same room and using the same reservoir for the hydroponics for both tents to keep things fair. I will do my best to keep the humidity and air temp the same in both as well. Anyone want to chime in on what they feel is their ideal air temp and humidity? Also water temp.
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Yup thats the way your gonna get it... quality control IS lacking!!! i will contact them personally! all you ahve to do is take it apart and tighten everything up! Once everything is tightened up youll notice the wiggle and light flicker will go away.. you have to remember there are alot of pieces to the light and the connections to the ballasts should be tightened as well.
 
AssDan said:
The thing that turn me off from that bulb is the green spike right at the very bottom of the PAR curve. Doesn't this mean that the plant is using that green light least efficiently? Seems like the least efficient use of your wattage. What about the green looking like it goes off the page? I found this graph. It looks like the blue has a nice spike, but the green is worrisome to me.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4479
Just my opinion, I don't think I'll be using that bulb.
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plants actually DO use green and in some circumstances use it MORE efficiently that red light... we have posted the effects of green light on plants here previously!
 
I almost bought a Pro Grow 400 LED today off a friend. It was more of a trade and barter situation, wink wink. Anyway It does have good spectrum an penetrates well. I wasn't sure about how much area it would cover and I felt like I was cheating on my t5. I told dude I would think about it. Also I love the results of my t5. I don't want to take a chance on taking steps backwards in my grow. I still want to try one out sometime though.
 
Lucius Vorenus said:
Whats an alternative to the Badboys you guys are using? I have heard way too many issues with the quality.
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Lucius, I have the HTGSupply unit here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/T5-HO-Fluoresce...882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255f9367fa

The build quality is good enough... but the hanging hooks they provide are a fuckin' joke... I tilted it just a tiny bit too far towards one end (it was not very far at all) and all of the sudden one end let go and broke two bulbs. :( Just use some S hooks and the holes on the corners of the unit instead of the stupid little V pieces they give you to use the middle holes.

The other (obvious) downside to this unit is that there is a 4" ballast block right in the middle of the reflectors. This is not a huge deal, but it makes it harder to "center" a plant under it and it really seems completely unnecessary since the bad boy puts the ballast box behind the reflectors.

Honestly, i wouldn't buy either of them. The bad boy's QC is shit, and this unit has it's flaws. I would get something different all together, maybe two 4 bulb units. I am also working in a limited space and I find the size of the thing to be kind of a pain in the ass.
 
Lucius,

I have a couple 2-bulb, 4-footers from HTG, as well as a couple of 4-bulb, 4-footers from GrowBright (also purchased through HTG).

I like the GrowBrights a lot. I got them instead of the cheaper 4-bulb HTG fixtures because I liked how they had individual reflectors for the bulbs. They feel like nice quality fixtures.

Both those lines of fixtures boast 95% reflectivity and I'm happy with both of them so far. No idea on the ballast quality.

AltarNation,

Just to clarify, the Red Sun spike appears to be around 615 nm, where there is also a spike on the Flora Sun. In addition, the Flora Sun chart also shows intensity around 630 nm and 660 nm, which are the key red wavelengths. The 660 nm in particular seems to be hard to hit with T5s (and is a really great wavelength to have in abundance).

I'm curious about the Red Sun, because it seems to work well but according to the chart it is not putting out the light that a lot of people appear to think it is.
 
organicbynature said:
AltarNation,

Just to clarify, the Red Sun spike appears to be around 615 nm, where there is also a spike on the Flora Sun. In addition, the Flora Sun chart also shows intensity around 630 nm and 660 nm, which are the key red wavelengths. The 660 nm in particular seems to be hard to hit with T5s (and is a really great wavelength to have in abundance).

I'm curious about the Red Sun, because it seems to work well but according to the chart it is not putting out the light that a lot of people appear to think it is.
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Okay, I gotcha... hm. Well, the combo I'm using seems to be working really well, but neither the coral waves nor the red suns are hitting that 660 nm spot. So I'm not sure how critical it is, but my results would be better if I was hitting it... I could probably retrofit a 2-bulb unit onto the bottom of the ballast box right in the middle of my unit and drop two more bulbs in there, but I won't go through that trouble til next grow.

Maybe I could substitute with a strip of 660nm LEDs instead or something... hmm.

Thanks for your info. Sorry if I seemed unreceptive at first, no one wants to hear they bought the wrong thing, especially after the amount of time I spent trying to figure out which bulbs to buy. lol. ;) I walked into this completely blind... never grown with anything before, so it was a lot to absorb on top of everything else, haha.
 
AltarNation said:
Okay, I gotcha... hm. Well, the combo I'm using seems to be working really well, but neither the coral waves nor the red suns are hitting that 660 nm spot. So I'm not sure how critical it is, but my results would be better if I was hitting it... I could probably retrofit a 2-bulb unit onto the bottom of the ballast box right in the middle of my unit and drop two more bulbs in there, but I won't go through that trouble til next grow.

Maybe I could substitute with a strip of 660nm LEDs instead or something... hmm.

Thanks for your info. Sorry if I seemed unreceptive at first, no one wants to hear they bought the wrong thing, especially after the amount of time I spent trying to figure out which bulbs to buy. lol. ;) I walked into this completely blind... never grown with anything before, so it was a lot to absorb on top of everything else, haha.
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Oh, I'm not saying you bought the wrong thing. Red Suns are one of the bulbs that people are swearing by in this forum. Nobody seems to mind that the chart shows it spiking around 615 nm, and rightly so if it's working for folks.

I'm just making the case for Flora Suns because they look like good (and accessible/inexpensive) bulbs to me. Just add some super actinics / coral waves and you're good to go. :)

But I'm just starting with these bulbs and I'm using mixed lighting, so they're far from proven.
 
organicbynature said:
Lucius,

I have a couple 2-bulb, 4-footers from HTG, as well as a couple of 4-bulb, 4-footers from GrowBright (also purchased through HTG).

I like the GrowBrights a lot. I got them instead of the cheaper 4-bulb HTG fixtures because I liked how they had individual reflectors for the bulbs. They feel like nice quality fixtures.

Both those lines of fixtures boast 95% reflectivity and I'm happy with both of them so far. No idea on the ballast quality.

AltarNation,

Just to clarify, the Red Sun spike appears to be around 615 nm, where there is also a spike on the Flora Sun. In addition, the Flora Sun chart also shows intensity around 630 nm and 660 nm, which are the key red wavelengths. The 660 nm in particular seems to be hard to hit with T5s (and is a really great wavelength to have in abundance).

I'm curious about the Red Sun, because it seems to work well but according to the chart it is not putting out the light that a lot of people appear to think it is.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I don't know shit about the quality of these from HTG but will do some research
 
organicbynature said:
Oh, I'm not saying you bought the wrong thing. Red Suns are one of the bulbs that people are swearing by in this forum. Nobody seems to mind that the chart shows it spiking around 615 nm, and rightly so if it's working for folks.

I'm just making the case for Flora Suns because they look like good (and accessible/inexpensive) bulbs to me. Just add some super actinics / coral waves and you're good to go. :)

But I'm just starting with these bulbs and I'm using mixed lighting, so they're far from proven.
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According to the company it spikes at 633nm and to me it looks around 630nm. You are looking at the center of the spike not where it peaks which is on the very right side (red) of the spike. You want both 630 nm and 660 nm. So that's what the redsun and fiji purple do. The chart floating around is for the deltec giesemann fiji purple which was supposedly the exact same spectrum as korallen zucht fiji purple.

http://www.uvlco.com/AquariumT5.html

http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html

for some reason the servers on uvl are all of a sudden blocked,,,,




In my flower on my T5, Im rockin 3 fiji purps, 3 redsuns , 2 coral waves and they are kicking ass. Despite the Q.C. of Badboys. I would still use those because of the reflectors and they are the only T5's that can run on a 240v.

I bought a 6 bulb hydrofarm off ebay for my veg for 145 after shipping and they come with bulbs. They have individual reflectors for each bulb too. I put in 1 aqua blue and another coral wave I already had in that light. thats a possiblity for an alternative light. it does put out a little more heat than my badboy. the rflectors are not vented like the badboy ones.
 
hyroot said:
according to the company it spikes at 633nm and to me it looks around 630nm, you are looking at the center of the spike not where it peaks which is on the very right side (red) of the peak. you want both 630 nm and 660 nm so that's what the redsun and fiji purple do. the chart floating around is for the deltec giesemann fiji purple which was supposedly that exact same spectrum as korallen zucht fiji purple.

http://www.uvlco.com/AquariumT5.html

http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html

for some reason the servers on uvl are all of a sudden blocked,,,,
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You're correct, the company does say it's a 633 nm light, and it may be. That's not what the chart shows though:

redsun_spectrum_enhanced.jpg

The coloration on this chart is different from other companies charts, so these may just not be good charts. I don't know.

I ordered some Red Suns but don't have them yet. Do they look very red or are they whiter or more yellow/orange than you might expect?
 
organicbynature said:
You're correct, the company does say it's a 633 nm light, and it may be. That's not what the chart shows though:

View attachment 1901962

The coloration on this chart is different from other companies charts, so these may just not be good charts. I don't know.

I ordered some Red Suns but don't have them yet. Do they look very red or are they whiter or more yellow/orange than you might expect?
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The redsuns look very red.
 
WOW, What a thread!!!

It took me three days to read all 128 pages but I wanted to get through the entire thing before posting because I don't want to be that annoying asshole that asks some ignorant repetitious question that's been discussed a thousand times already. This thread is so packed with information that I will probably need to read it again just to digest it all! I should have taken notes and demarcated the pages with the bits that really caught my attention...but I didn't haha.

Thank you Pr0fesseur for all of your hard work and countless hours of research! And to all the participants in this experiment as well, thank you for helping to further our knowledge and improve upon our methods which are ever evolving!

I would like to try the T5 experiment as well. Unfortunately I live in a very 420 unfriendly place, so posting pics or dong a journal is probably not in the cards for me. I don't know if anyone would even want anecdotal accounts without pictures.

I had bought two GLH LED lights several months ago for the exact reason that you made this thread Pr0f. On their website, they discussed the limitations of HID lights and introduced me to the concept of PAR light for plant growth. I said to myself, huh, that sure makes a lot of sense...I wonder why more people aren't researching that. Low and behold, here you all are, doing it not with LED but T5. What a creative idea to use aquarium lights! T5's are wonderfully dynamic in so many ways. They come in an endless variety of spectra, and can be switched mid grow, something LED's can never do. I am fully on board here and can't wait to see how everyone's results turn out.

Here's my first question which has been touched on briefly and it's about heat. Never having owned a T5, I am completely unacquainted with how much heat they give off. It sounded like the 8 lamp units give off a fair bit, not from the lamps themselves but from the ballasts, which is why the pr0fessor was looking to keep the ballasts separate and outside the grow space. I don't really think this is feasible for me, so my options are to go with the Badboy and try to rig some kind of cool tube thing like...like...geez, I can't remember now if it was Altar, or DWC who did it (forgive me, it's been a long read). Or the other choice is to go with the air cooled Solar Wind which is significantly more expensive and can't be run without a cooling fan from what I understand. Both of these have drawbacks especially since I wanted to do a relatively equivalent watt run with the T5's to my two 600W HPS lamps. This would mean 3, 8 Lamp BadBoy's...24 bulbs total equaling 1296W. From what I understand about what you all have said, these would throw off a significant amount of heat. My grow room is roughly 10x10x9. I was hoping to use CO2 and thus keep my room sealed, but with that many lamps would that be feasible?

I guess I'm wondering what the best course of action would be to allow for the use of CO2 and a sealed room while mediating the heat from the T5 ballasts?
 
ATFgrower said:
I am looking into buying a T5 badboy system. I am interested in the aquarium bulbs, but would like to see a light spectrum chart for the Quantum grow and bloom lamps as well.

Anyone know where to find a chart with that information? I am trying to see how much green or yellow comes from those.

Thanks Prof for such awesome research. Not sure if I will use this method right away, but I will be experimenting with it sometime.
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You can bug Quantum. I gave up after like 4 attempts. I got the charts but in a format I cannot upload. The Grow bulb is actually pretty decent, the 3000K not so much. Unless you can get a super deal on the Grows I would go with Aqua Suns or something similar.
 
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