Just not enough

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
2. No amnesty for Illegal aliens (We have a system in place to enter the country that works)
<sigh....sometimes I wonder whether it's worth my time...>
For the umpteenth time, the problem isn't the illegal immigrants, the problem is with the employers, law enforcement, and legislators creating an environment conducive to the hiring of illegal immigrants. Until that is addressed, we will have illegal immigrants.
 

cranker

Legal Moderator, Esq.
I worked in manufacturing for 7 years during the last decade, and my dad was an advisor to the congressional panel with Nafta. I can tell you exactly why the economy took it's downfall, and why it can't recover, and why China will overtake us as the world's #1 superpower.

When Nafta was signed, there were provisions (there was also a deal made with central america that escapes my mind at the moment). Most of the parts makers and fabric makers stayed in the US, and they used cotton grown in the US. I have signed pictures of Clinton signing the bill, which I have since destroyed. But a perspective from someone that was working in central america and watching the battle that was being waged during the late 90's through to about 2006 when the problems really started, this is how it went.

Clinton signed Nafta and actually brought a lot of jobs back to the US. Cotton farming grew and the textile mills were all running heavily. Cars were being made primarily in the US and most of the outsourcing was to Mexico. During this time no one really was paying attention to the illegal immigration because it was just taking the jobs no one else wanted. Clinton also signed a bill during his 2nd term that limited the amount of certain goods (textiles ect) that could be imported, and there was a heavy tariff to the tone of 17-27%. This bill was slated to last 10 years.

Fast forward 9 years. The bill is running out, and many companies in the textile industry (I'm most familiar with this so I'll stick to this) began selling off their manufacturing arms and becoming only marketing agencies. Almost every major brand did this. They turned to "full package development" instead of designing their own, where a company brings them a final product and a price and the company says yes throw our label on it or no we don't like that. This is also true of electronics, I have an mp3 player made by a company that sells the same exact one to 3 different brands.

During this time a record number of gigantic new cargo ships were constructed. China had been running full capacity and selling all their old stuff to us for 10 years and had so much product in storage they were just waiting out the clock. Bush, in one of the only things he did during his 2nd term that was worth a damn, tried to pass an ordinance that would extend the tariffs. Unfortunately the Democratic congress didn't want to basically change a bill that a Democrat president had put into service.

The final straw was when the levee broke, and the flood of chinese goods hit the market. I was still in central america at this time, and saw 100's of thousands of jobs go away, because we had to use 80% American cotton to avoid a 30% tariff when the chinese were just using chinese cotton, or middle eastern. Now you take a country like Honduras, that 15 years before had been just an awful place to live, shanty towns, poor sewage systems, basically 3rd world at it's apex, and you throw American money into it for 15 years. People start having larger families, building malls, McDonald's ect opens up, jobs are plentiful, then all the sudden 15 years down the line BAM everyone pulls out. Around 2005-2007 is when the whole illegal alien movement started getting people's attention. Obama in his election speeches talked about amnesty for illegals. The newspapers all over central america were saying that anyone in the US when Obama is elected if he wins will get legal status.

Illegal immigration booms. And at the time the economy was only at the start of it's downfall. I said at the time it didn't matter who got elected, that Obama would just make the downfall faster. Bush, being completely inept and having his hands tied, pretty much just sat there unable to do anything, probably getting coked up.

So now we have record unemployment, up to an estimated 5-10% of the residents of the US are illegal, and no one is buying American, unless you buy a Mazda or a Toyota, since japanese car companies are still producing cars here. American car companies have gone elsewhere. The recent uproar in Honduras a few years back with the president being thrown out by trying to sneak an illegal vote on a bill through, and similar governmental problems in Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic are just telling the residents that they are better off risking their lives to cross the border.

Anyway, wall of text over. This is just one of the major factors that no one tells you about when they are pointing fingers, because both parties fucked it up.
 

hazyintentions

Well-Known Member
NOT an Economist....................
Neither are you tard.

By the way, I loved how Obama was invoking class warfare in his speech, absolutely ridiculous politics.

You stand behind him like he is REALLY going to offset the cost of this bill but we all know that will never truly happen. How about him saying something about "cutting from the budget by 1 trillion over the ext 10 years." Did he just forget to mention that the budget is projected to increase by something like 9.5 trillion over the next 10 years? NOPE! I'm sure Americans would like to know about that. So even after his claims of there being a total of almost 2.5 trillion in cuts those cuts are from an increase, It's like being broke and deciding you want the 1/2lb $15 steak over the $20 3/4lb steak. They both still cost you money you don't have.

Do you realize what you are defending?
 

cranker

Legal Moderator, Esq.
Also failed to mention that the chinese currency being illegally tied to the US currency at a 6:1 ratio for the last few decades makes it artificially cheaper than it really is, and that since China now owns more of the US's debt than Japan, we can't do shit about it.
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Also failed to mention that the chinese currency being illegally tied to the US currency at a 6:1 ratio for the last few decades makes it artificially cheaper than it really is, and that since China now owns more of the US's debt than Japan, we can't do shit about it.
You do realize that China relies on a strong dollar and a weak yuan right? That's why they bought a bunch of our debt on the open market. If the value of their currency goes up, they're fucked.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
NOT an Economist....................
Clearly. lol...

In an attempt to keep this thread from becoming a strait Obama bash-fest what exactly about Obama's proposal do you not like? It's paid for, mostly tax cuts, Obama is offering to lift some regulations, etc... Obama made it clear that he isn't trying to be partisan - he went out of his way to fill his bill with things passed by both Republicans and Democrats in the past - he wants to do something for the country and the Republicans made it very clear that they will not even support tax cuts if Obama wants them... Just because he wants them... Is that even remotely honest?
By the way, I loved how Obama was invoking class warfare in his speech, absolutely ridiculous politics.
No, he said "we have choices" we can either give tax breaks to oil companies or we can give them to small business - that's not class warfare. He said Warren buffet pays less as a percentage in taxes than his secretary, pointing out a flaw in our tax code - that is not class warfare.
You stand behind him like he is REALLY going to offset the cost of this bill but we all know that will never truly happen. How about him saying something about "cutting from the budget by 1 trillion over the ext 10 years." Did he just forget to mention that the budget is projected to increase by something like 9.5 trillion over the next 10 years? NOPE! I'm sure Americans would like to know about that. So even after his claims of there being a total of almost 2.5 trillion in cuts those cuts are from an increase, It's like being broke and deciding you want the 1/2lb $15 steak over the $20 3/4lb steak. They both still cost you money you don't have.

Do you realize what you are defending?
Do you understand how the world works at all? Spending will "increase" 9.5 Trillion over the next 10 years due to factors like population increases and inflation; As a percentage of GDP spending has stablized... You should really go read a few economics books and stop listening to misleading talking points you heard from Michelle Bachmann...
 

hazyintentions

Well-Known Member
Clearly. lol...

In an attempt to keep this thread from becoming a strait Obama bash-fest what exactly about Obama's proposal do you not like? It's paid for, mostly tax cuts, Obama is offering to lift some regulations, etc... Obama made it clear that he isn't trying to be partisan - he went out of his way to fill his bill with things passed by both Republicans and Democrats in the past - he wants to do something for the country and the Republicans made it very clear that they will not even support tax cuts if Obama wants them... Just because he wants them... Is that even remotely honest?
paid for by WHOM? US. It's the dollars in mine and your pockets that loose value every time more money is printed or spent by the Federal Government.

I didn't even watch his speech all the way through I got tired of him saying "pass this NOW!" while making glittering generalities. He's atack on the upper class like taxing them more is going to even put a dent in the deficit is futile and as a president it only makes you look bad for condoning such class warfare, but then again how else are you going to win votes except to "appear" to care and pit the people in the bottom bracket against the people in the top bracket who already pay more the 95% of all incomes taxes.

Barrack H Obama- campaigner in Chief till the end.

What he says are not bad ideas but I have no faith in him or Congress so I know not much of any of this is going to happen anywhere near like it sounds like he wants it too.

Congress needs to GO! We thought we flushed it in 2010 but looks like we need to do it again.
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Congress needs to GO! We thought we flushed it in 2010 but looks like we need to do it again.
Actually, the voters made it worse in 2010. If we just undid that election, we could go back to making progress like we were right before it.

The voters blew it in 2010. You know who they are.
 

smokebros

Well-Known Member
This country should be liquidating the bad debt and malinvestments, not stimulating and propping them up. FTW!
 

ihatepolice

Active Member
I agree with that as well. The blame isn't all Obama's.. however, before he got elected.. the man promised to do certain things before his term was up.. none of those things that he promised has been done in that 4 years, which is almost all up.

The other party that we can and should blame.. is Congress! Obama said that he was going to "make" congress get in gear and get things going... but as with most things Obama says, we'll just have to wait and see if he actually follows through with it.

Gotta Love Washington Politics! They get in the way of everything... assholes.

Past U.S. Presidents are also to blame.. especially President Bush!


The fact remains though, no matter when or if this country ever gets back in shape.. the fact remains that we will never see it back to the shape it was in, prior to the 9/11 attacks.. and that's just the way it is. It's unfortunate.. but it is what it is you know. Not anything we can do about it.
yeah but thats politics if every politician told you the truth while they were running they wouldnt get in office man. and not only that i dont think obama expected this much hurdles he has no help man. what news channel do you watch if you dont watch the news what paper or online website you go to all of them are bashing obama for some reasons they know he aint responsible for isnt that strange to you.
 

sen.c

Active Member
For the umpteenth time, the problem isn't the illegal immigrants, the problem is with the employers, law enforcement, and legislators creating an environment conducive to the hiring of illegal immigrants. Until that is addressed, we will have illegal immigrants.
Jobs are only a small part of the illegal immigration problem. My issue is the healthcare cost, education cost and the crime costs which are very large.

As far as the Chinese go I know all about it, I conduct international business pretty regularly.

That's why they bought a bunch of our debt on the open market. If the value of their currency goes up, they're fucke
Not really, they would just have a stronger yen to buy more of our screwed up debt then they could turn around and sell it if they wanted to. It is all a shell game of swapping paper at the right time for a return on investment.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
paid for by WHOM? US. It's the dollars in mine and your pockets that loose value every time more money is printed or spent by the Federal Government.

I didn't even watch his speech all the way through I got tired of him saying "pass this NOW!" while making glittering generalities. He's atack on the upper class like taxing them more is going to even put a dent in the deficit is futile and as a president it only makes you look bad for condoning such class warfare, but then again how else are you going to win votes except to "appear" to care and pit the people in the bottom bracket against the people in the top bracket who already pay more the 95% of all incomes taxes.

Barrack H Obama- campaigner in Chief till the end.

What he says are not bad ideas but I have no faith in him or Congress so I know not much of any of this is going to happen anywhere near like it sounds like he wants it too.

Congress needs to GO! We thought we flushed it in 2010 but looks like we need to do it again.
Actually, his speech was very specific; He pretty much laid out every policy proposal he has, explained the benefits and pointed out the bipartisan nature of every single proposal.

You admit that his ideas aren't bad but you still wont stand behind those ideas? You realize you are only enabling House Republicans to continue to stand in the way of progress right?

He addressed the "class warfare" charge in his speech as well... If you listened to the whole speech you would have heard his explanation as something along the lines of(paraphrasing), "we can give tax cuts to oil companies or small businesses but we cant afford both, right now we need jobs and small business creates most of the jobs so it makes sense to make this choice."
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Jobs are only a small part of the illegal immigration problem. My issue is the healthcare cost, education cost and the crime costs which are very large.

As far as the Chinese go I know all about it, I conduct international business pretty regularly.
No, they aren't. According to a TEXAS study on illegal immigration, illegals contribute more than they recieve.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
This country should be liquidating the bad debt and malinvestments, not stimulating and propping them up. FTW!
The housing bubble and the malinvestment created by it has had plenty of time to purge itself from the system. You are listening to RP, who believes the last 50 years of growth in the U.S. has just been one giant bubble - which is ridiculous and there is no evidence to support such a claim.
 

ihatepolice

Active Member
I also agree with this statement as well.

Obama is only saying the things he's saying, because he knows his first 4-year term is almost to an end. He's doing a repeat of what he did the first time people.. I just wish some of you weren't so blind mentally, so you could see what the man is doing. It's very misleading and untruthful.. and its just waste breath on his part... because I'm not falling for it.. and I think about 65% of the rest of the country feels the same way as I do about it.

He's just trying to butter his 'fans' up again.. prior to the 2012 elections. He doesn't actually care about any of us.. or even this country. He only seems to care about the 'spotlight' on him and his family. He falls into the 'mentally power-tripping' category IMO. Unfortunately, some people will listen to his false speeches and will vote for him in the upcoming 2012 elections.

We don't need another 4 years of this shit.. get it? We don't need a repeat of the last 4 years people... we need someone who's going to actually TAKE action instead of just talking about it. Someone who's actually going to make positive changes for us and our country!! It's time for the U.S. to get back on its feet.. and its time we get jobs back into the U.S.!! To do that, we need someone new in Office as President of the United States of America!

So again, please Do Not vote for Obama in 2012.

Thanks.
until we come out with a better canidate i will most certainly vote for obama all though he has not done what he said he would you can most certainly see that he is trying just dont have much help. and if a better canidate comes out the wood works then sure he lost my vote but im not voting for perry or either of those 2 women not because there women but because there both stupid would you really rather have on of those people over obama hes no clinton but hes def better then our options right now. bottom line.
 

hazyintentions

Well-Known Member
Actually, his speech was very specific; He pretty much laid out every policy proposal he has, explained the benefits and pointed out the bipartisan nature of every single proposal.

You admit that his ideas aren't bad but you still wont stand behind those ideas? You realize you are only enabling House Republicans to continue to stand in the way of progress right?

He addressed the "class warfare" charge in his speech as well... If you listened to the whole speech you would have heard his explanation as something along the lines of(paraphrasing), "we can give tax cuts to oil companies or small businesses but we cant afford both, right now we need jobs and small business creates most of the jobs so it makes sense to make this choice."
Any monkey with an IQ over 100 realizes small business is the backbone of the American economy, did Obama just now realize this? hah j/k

Hey, how about Obama start making real cuts, I don't know, say the $900 billion annually spent on on wars overseas. Shoot you could kep those tropps employed here and still cut like $250 - $300 billion annually.

Did he tell us HOW the act is paid for?
 

sen.c

Active Member
Actually, the voters made it worse in 2010. If we just undid that election, we could go back to making progress like we were right before it.

The voters blew it in 2010. You know who they are.
LOL......

So what your saying is if we could undo the vote that brought some type of accountability back to the front would go away we would be better off. I don't know about you but I work for a living
and don't get a lazy check from the government and we were not making all this progress you keep talking about. If you call progress entitlement then you are part of the problem at it's core.
Remember Pelosi "well you have to pass it so you can see what's in it." You've got to be kidding, if it were up to you we would all switch rolls in this country so the lazy could have what they
didn't strive and work for.
 

ihatepolice

Active Member
Government period is corrupt, they all need their asses handed to them and have all their golden parachutes taken away from them. If they want to truly serve their country they don't need their pay the rest of their life, private insurance for the rest of their life, and all the other special stuff that the common citizen doesn't get. Also they should be open for prosecution regardless of them serving in office, if anything they should be held to a higher standard because they are an elected official. That wouldn't be fair though, then they would have to worry about all they under the table BS they have going on and be responsible for their actions. Is that really to much to ask?
now thats something i can agree on sir if i knew how i would give you a thumbs up
 

ihatepolice

Active Member
1. Secure our borders
2. No amnesty for Illegal aliens (We have a system in place to enter the country that works)
3. Put a time limit on Welfare, Food Stamps ect. (Just like the State does on Unemployement)
4. People on welfare should be required to report to work in their communities to clean things up divide their check into 5 equal portions and if they don't show up deduct accordingly (them maybe by cleaning up their
communities they will feel better about themselves and the community they live in.)
5. Legalize Marijuana for the true cash crop it is and take advantage of the jobs and tax base it could create
this person gets my vote for president
 
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