Just not enough

sen.c said:

Jobs are only a small part of the illegal immigration problem. My issue is the healthcare cost, education cost and the crime costs which are very large.

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Well I suppose you can speak to that better than I my friend. I only spent 23 years of my life living in a Mexican Barrio surrounded by fields where my neighbors, many of which were illegal immigrants, worked. Most of the crime I saw committed (most assaults and drug usage) were perpetrated by the "homies"...2-3 generation CITIZENS. The illegals usually went to work, church, and generally kept a low profile.

But....The point is....it is the jobs. If the jobs are there, the illegals will come. And TPTB are providing a climate to bring them here. If the jobs are not there, no illegals. See how easy that is?

mame said:

We're in a liquidity trap, so fiscal expansion is necessary... you can call Obama whatever name you like, and it will not change that fact.

Also, very little of the proposed package goes towards teachers - most of it is actually a payroll tax cut... Dont like tax cuts?

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As it stands now it is an EMPLOYEE tax cut only (no relief to buniness), last time I checked employees do not create jobs.

How about we repatriate $1 Trillion + in offshore corp profits and jobs?

mame said:

Actually, his speech was very specific; He pretty much laid out every policy proposal he has, explained the benefits and pointed out the bipartisan nature of every single proposal.

You admit that his ideas aren't bad but you still wont stand behind those ideas? You realize you are only enabling House Republicans to continue to stand in the way of progress right?

He addressed the "class warfare" charge in his speech as well... If you listened to the whole speech you would have heard his explanation as something along the lines of(paraphrasing), "we can give tax cuts to oil companies or small businesses but we cant afford both, right now we need jobs and small business creates most of the jobs so it makes sense to make this choice."

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You're right, he was very specific on what he wants to spend.... I'm a little cloudy on how he is going to pay for it.

hazyintentions said:

Any monkey with an IQ over 100 realizes small business is the backbone of the American economy, did Obama just now realize this? hah j/k

Hey, how about Obama start making real cuts, I don't know, say the $900 billion annually spent on on wars overseas. Shoot you could kep those tropps employed here and still cut like $250 - $300 billion annually.

Did he tell us HOW the act is paid for?

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Obama proposed the biggest deficit reduction package out of anybody during the "debt ceiling debacle", and the Republicans wouldnn't agree to it because it was 14% revenue (the rest obviously being cuts).

And he did tell us how he wants to pay for the act... Closing tax loopholes. A week from monday he'll be submitting this stimulus package along with a deficit reduction plan of equal or greater size and everything will be in specifics for all to see.

Bonzi Lighthouse said:

As it stands now it is an EMPLOYEE tax cut only (no relief to buniness), last time I checked employees do not create jobs.

How about we repatriate $1 Trillion + in offshore corp profits and jobs?

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uhm last time I checked, DEMAND creates jobs and putting more money into the hands of employees stimulates demand - because they spend all that money. So yes, this tax cut will create jobs... It's not as efficient as say... infrastructure spending... But it's better than nothing.

No, they aren't. According to a TEXAS study on illegal immigration, illegals contribute more than they recieve.

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Ahh, there you go with this bullshit again. It might be plauseable if the whole country was TEXAS but it is not. Try not to hang your hat on just one of the states to make your decision. By the way that study has no way to track all the cash labor and other things that come into play and where that cash goes. I can tell you for a fact that I know several documented aliens and they put a little in just enough to get by and they live in groups to minimize the cost of living and send their money back home. After a few years of doing this many of them will leave and not come back because they have sent enough home to build a nice home and bank account.

BendBrewer said:

Did you hear the part where this plan will be paid for without adding to the budget? The costs will be offset with spending cuts. If you people would put your irrational hatred on hold for a day or two you might have a better understanding of what was proposed. Ignorance is the root of all your frustration.

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Really are these cuts coming out of this years budget? Future years increases? over what period of time?

You want spending? Give me 1:1 offsetting cuts (in the same budget year), take it out of the military, cut SS, or MC to pay for it I don't care, but don't expect me to accept future cuts by people that my not even be here now.

mame said:

Obama proposed the biggest deficit reduction package out of anybody during the "debt ceiling debacle", and the Republicans wouldnn't agree to it because it was 14% revenue (the rest obviously being cuts).

And he did tell us how he wants to pay for the act... Closing tax loopholes. A week from monday he'll be submitting this stimulus package along with a deficit reduction plan of equal or greater size and everything will be in specifics for all to see.

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Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to defend the majority of republicans in Congress. They are the bane of our country, followed closely by extreme bi-partisanship.

I am happy that Obama acknowledged the people don't believe in big government bureaucracy. Problem is that the amount of money he claims we'll "save" is but a drop in the bucket and carries more political value than anything else.
Sorry mame, he hasn't done anything that showed clear results, admittingly hard without Congress, but he did have a majority in both houses for 2 years.

By far, the most despicable thing he said inthat speech was protecting "bargaining rights." The "Teamsters" are nothing more than a legal form of the mafia. And with hoffa's speech I tihnk the last thing he should've done is bring up union's rights, all he did was put salt on a wound of the "Tea Party" ideals.

Political suicide. This speech is becoming counterproductive.

Bonzi Lighthouse said:

Really are these cuts coming out of this years budget? Future years increases? over what period of time?

You want spending? Give me 1:1 offsetting cuts (in the same budget year), take it out of the military, cut SS, or MC to pay for it I don't care, but don't expect me to accept future cuts by people that my not even be here now.

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DING DING DING! We have winner, guess who's going to foot the bills in 20 years? Now you mame, it'll be me and people younger than me, so maybe if America fails in the next decade my generation will have a chance to rebuild it and restore it without this political firestorm.

The options are no good.

sen.c said:

Ahh, there you go with this bullshit again. It might be plauseable if the whole country was TEXAS but it is not. Try not to hang your hat on just one of the states to make your decision. By the way that study has no way to track all the cash labor and other things that come into play and where that cash goes. I can tell you for a fact that I know several documented aliens and they put a little in just enough to get by and they live in groups to minimize the cost of living and send their money back home. After a few years of doing this many of them will leave and not come back because they have sent enough home to build a nice home and bank account.

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The whole time they are doing this they're paying taxes and not recieving benefits.

Texas is right along the border, so if Texas is showing a net gain in taxes without seeing increased social spending what do you think the rest of the nation is experiencing? You may call it bullshit but this study is peer reviewed and based on facts and actual research... You're going to have to do better than simply not believe it if you are going to convince anybody that it is not true. Where is some evidence to suggest the study is incorrect?

mame said:

uhm last time I checked, DEMAND creates jobs and putting more money into the hands of employees stimulates demand - because they spend all that money. So yes, this tax cut will create jobs... It's not as efficient as say... infrastructure spending... But it's better than nothing.

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Ok then why is it not working (it is after all a continuation)? This sounds like trickle up economics, kinda how unemployment payments create jobs too?

"what kind of country would this be if this chamber decided to vote "down" Social Security or Medicare just because it violated some rigid idea of what government could of could not do. "

Barrack H Obama Sept 8, 2011

Bold words coming from a time when SS and Medicare are both failing systems and have almost $45 trillion in owed assets. Or in a time when more Americans are upset about loosing basic rights due to Government Bureaucracies like the TSA, CIA, and FBI with bills like the Patriot act in law or bills like HR645 on the table.

Just wanted to point that out.

mame said:

Obama proposed the biggest deficit reduction package out of anybody during the "debt ceiling debacle", and the Republicans wouldnn't agree to it because it was 14% revenue (the rest obviously being cuts).

And he did tell us how he wants to pay for the act... Closing tax loopholes. A week from monday he'll be submitting this stimulus package along with a deficit reduction plan of equal or greater size and everything will be in specifics for all to see.

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PASS THIS JOBS BILL NOW and I will reform the tax code.... Really???? I don't trust a single person in Washington to make this happen, there are only 2 Pauls up there now.

I'll pay you Tuesday for a Hambuger today.

Pretty interesting:

ProfessorJoseph Olson of Hamlin University Schoolof Law in St. Paul ,

Minnesota , points outsome interesting facts concerning the last

Presidentialelection:



Number of Stateswon by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29


Square miles of land wonby: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000


Population of counties wonby: Obama: 127million McCain: 143 million


Murder rate per 100,000residents in counties won by:
Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1



Professor Olson adds: "Inaggregate, the map of the territory McCain

won wasmostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.



Obamaterritory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income

tenementsand living off various forms of government welfare..."



Olsonbelieves the United States is now somewhere between the

"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of

democracy,with some forty percent of the nation's population already

havingreached the "governmental dependency" phase.



If Congress grants amnestyand citizenship to twenty million criminal

invaderscalled illegal's - and they vote - then we can say goodbye to

the USA infewer than five years.

Bonzi Lighthouse said:

Ok then why is it not working (it is after all a continuation)? This sounds like trickle up economics, kinda how unemployment payments create jobs too?

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Not working? the 800B stimulus was woefully inadequate in size, but it did create or save over 3 million jobs so it's not as if it "didn't Work". And besides that, American Austerity has been happening the entire time at state and local levels and now at the Federal level DESTROYING jobs so it's not as if balancing the budget will create any jobs.

edit: oh you're talking the payroll tax cut, yes that is working.

Bonzi Lighthouse said:

Ok then why is it not working (it is after all a continuation)? This sounds like trickle up economics, kinda how unemployment payments create jobs too?

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It is working. Read a paper sometime.

The BEA reported today that real consumer spending increased in July to $9.428 trillion (2005 dollars), setting a new monthly record (see chart above). Consumer spending in July increased by 0.46% from June, and by 2.3% from a year ago.

Up 2.3% since a year ago huh? How much was that employment tax cut again? 2% right? See the correlation?

I can walk you through it again if not.

Pretty good I think, LOL.......

http://youtu.be/F6etfJgZQ7A

Really Good.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQf_QfitmKE&feature=youtu.be

sen.c said:

Pretty good I think, LOL.......

http://youtu.be/F6etfJgZQ7A

Really Good.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQf_QfitmKE&feature=youtu.be

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HAHAHAHA, that's absolutely great.

The BEA reported today that real consumer spending increased in July to $9.428 trillion (2005 dollars), setting a new monthly record (see chart above). Consumer spending in July increased by 0.46% from June, and by 2.3% from a year ago.

Up 2.3% since a year ago huh? How much was that employment tax cut again? 2% right? See the correlation?

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I prefer to think of it as the country is getting close to getting this idiot out of office so things are ramping up because they are feeling better knowing they only have a little time left till he's gone.

The thing is, Bonzi, is that cuts RIGHT NOW kill jobs - because Austerity in the face of high unemployment means that the private sector isn't strong enough to replace public sector jobs with private sector jobs. The left argues that we should be spending(building bridges) now, in combination with reforms and austerity over the long term so as to minimize the impact on our already weak economy. The left argues that closing the output gap via reaching full employment is the best thing we could be doing for our fiscal outlook, even if it means more short term spending because everyday we let high unemployment persist is economic growth that we're missing out on.

I prefer to think of it as the country is getting close to getting this idiot out of office so things are ramping up because they are feeling better knowing they only have a little time left till he's gone.

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You can tell yourself that all you want, but it doesn't make it true. (hint: the confidence fairy is just that... A fairy... Do you believe in fairies?)