California 2012: How do we get the No voters to vote yes?

[Dan Kone]

How exactly do you get a measure on the ballot? Who do you have to blow?

It's a matter of gathering signatures. You must get the signatures of 5-8% of voters. I believe the number last time was ~450k signatures, but I could be wrong.

In order to do that you have to pay people to collect them. Not cheap.

 

[Dan Kone]

Around here it was the fear that there would be public drug-dealing. They don't want their kids to see that drugs are ok.

Mind ya we have major dealing like any area does.. It's just out of sight.

So yeah I think NPR influences voters.. The No voters listen and so do the Maybe voters.. better we get NPR on our side because we are non-commercial pro people then to get them to report Drug-dealers may win.

lol @ that considering your solution is to legalize black market dealing and for-profit grow houses in residential neighborhoods.

 

[Timmahh]

California 2012: How do we get the No voters to vote yes?

you cant. all you can do is get non voters registered to vote, and get them to vote yes.

 

[Ernst]

you cant. all you can do is get non voters registered to vote, and get them to vote yes.

What if the No people believe voting for the people stops the gang profits by ruining the price of weed?

 

[Dan Kone]

What if the No people believe voting for the people stops the gang profits by ruining the price of weed?

And you think the way to do that is to make sure it is not legal to sell cannabis in legal businesses, but instead to allow for unlimited cultivation and possession?

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[DelSlow]

It's a matter of gathering signatures. You must get the signatures of 5-8% of voters. I believe the number last time was ~450k signatures, but I could be wrong.

In order to do that you have to pay people to collect them. Not cheap.

Ah, I see. I guess if you had a bunch of selfless people willing to collect signatures for the cause (for little or no money) then I guess it can be done without $millions$. Then again, we all know that would never happen.

 

[Ernst]

Are you in an area where Cannabis dispensaries are forbidden?

What sort of religious community do you have there?

 

[DelSlow]

Are you in an area where Cannabis dispensaries are forbidden?

What sort of religious community do you have there?

Yep. Medical is legal in Hawaii but no dispensaries. There is pending legislation for dispensaries, but it doesn't look good.

As for religious groups, sure there are churches and whatnot. They came out pretty strong against civil unions, but thank GOD for sanity lol. Hawaii is now part of a small group of states that allow civil unions.

 

[canndo]

What if the No people believe voting for the people stops the gang profits by ruining the price of weed?

Most don't think that far into a situation. Most have a cousin or know a friend of a friend who is amotivational and they think that pot did that to them. That is enough.

 

[Ernst]

Most don't think that far into a situation. Most have a cousin or know a friend of a friend who is amotivational and they think that pot did that to them. That is enough.

The conversations I have had with people I would describe as average No people here suggested they are willing to entertain new concept.

The idea of opening a pot shop was not on the table.
They accept that organized drug dealing existed but didn't have a direct reference so my gossip about the who and where was a bit frightening from the reactions I saw but not a shock. Generality in this No community it's out of sight and out of mind although everyone I spoke with recently acknowledged that "kids" can get "drugs."

I believe there is a possibility of promoting "for the people" as a compromise solution since I am really sure the vote on Pro-Commerce is a flat no!

What do you think about selling "legalization" as just for the people?

In this No community they count on the out of sight out of mind so they will not want Mom and Pop Cannabis Company on Main Street or any street.
In defence we do now have 6 smoke shops where we once had one and a half.. Curiously more arose after the "One" was busted for dealing "E."

So this is a what if: Posting fuck yous or it won't works is lame.

---------------------------

What if we ditch commerce language an appeal to the base of "For the People Only" first step.

What are the Pro's and Con's you see?

Can you see voters you believe are No voters voting yes?

The political pitch is "Take Back your neighborhood" Get rid of drug dealing and drug profits for gangs.

Again I stress there is no need to pile on to defeat this exploration with fuck yous or it will never works because this is an exploration.

Lets explore our options for 2012 and 2014.

 

[undertheice]

I will wager that it will be harder for the Federal Government to go after Non-Commercial in State. They would have shut down the Medical if they could have.

you're still not getting it, pressing the federal government is exactly what the next step has to be. just as with 215, the feds will come in and try to shut it all down and we must give the state government a reason to fight the dea's goon squads. the tax revenues provided by commercial sales are exactly the carrot that must be dangled in front of sacramento's nose, giving them a reason to go up against washington. those same tax dollars are the incentive for the feds to not try quite so hard to shut it down. we are talking about the potential for billions of dollars in new revenue and that's something these political animals would be hard presses to pass up.

Around here it was the fear that there would be public drug-dealing. They don't want their kids to see that drugs are ok.

tell me, are those folks picketing liquor stores and mini-marts that sell cigarettes? the point here is to change people's minds about what exactly weed is. we all know that weed isn't some dangerous drug to be feared and loathed. it isn't heroin or oxycontin we're talking about here. the whole idea is to show that a couple of joints are far less dangerous in every conceivable way than that six-pack pa is carting home after work and that can't be done if sales remains in the shadows. we've gone through decriminalization and the people accepted it. we've shown that there are benefits to our happy little herb and the people seem relatively satisfied with its medicinal qualities. now it's just a matter of one more little push to bring one of the world's most inoffensive intoxicants out into the light.

 

[Ernst]

You are promoting commerce and California has voted No twice on Commerce.

So how would you get the No voters to vote yes?

 

[Dan Kone]

The conversations I have had with people I would describe as average No people here suggested they are willing to entertain new concept.

The idea of opening a pot shop was not on the table.
They accept that organized drug dealing existed but didn't have a direct reference so my gossip about the who and where was a bit frightening from the reactions I saw but not a shock. Generality in this No community it's out of sight and out of mind although everyone I spoke with recently acknowledged that "kids" can get "drugs."

So you think the way to get legalization is to win over the religious right by legalizing black market drug dealing? Yeah.......

Social conservatives are a group that will never support legalization regardless of what the law looks like. It's like trying to get them to support abortion, never going to happen.

You can possibly convince fiscal conservatives through financial incentives, but you're never going to get the religious right. They are firm no voters.

What if we ditch commerce language an appeal to the base of "For the People Only" first step.

Then we would be letting corporate America write cannabis law in California. It would only be legal to purchase cannabis through a pot walmart type store where the buds are treated as manufactured products rather than flowers and grown in big factories.

And after all those concessions to the religious right, they will still vote no.

There are plenty of no voters we can get, but social conservatives won't vote yes no matter what.

The political pitch is "Take Back your neighborhood" Get rid of drug dealing and drug profits for gangs.

And you think we can do that by legalizing black market dealing and legalizing commercial grow houses in residential neighborhoods? lol

 

[Dan Kone]

you're still not getting it, pressing the federal government is exactly what the next step has to be. just as with 215, the feds will come in and try to shut it all down and we must give the state government a reason to fight the dea's goon squads.

This is exactly why commerce is a necessity when it comes to legalization. It takes money to fight the feds, not hugs and rainbows. A team of lawyers isn't going to accept good vibes as payment.

the tax revenues provided by commercial sales are exactly the carrot that must be dangled in front of sacramento's nose, giving them a reason to go up against washington. those same tax dollars are the incentive for the feds to not try quite so hard to shut it down. we are talking about the potential for billions of dollars in new revenue and that's something these political animals would be hard presses to pass up.

There are different types of no voters. Some no voters are just against legalization no matter what, you're never going to get them to vote yes regardless of what the ballot measure looks like.

Others are indifferent, they just don't care about it one way or the other so they vote no. Those people can be convinced to vote yes through financial incentives and through advertising campaigns making the arguments like that "if it's sold in stores instead of through dealers who don't ask for ID."

Of course you can't make that argument if the legalization bill you're talking about is one that doesn't address retail sales and supports cannabis being sold through black market sales.

Also, like the lawyers, TV advertisers aren't going to accept good karma as payment. I'm pretty sure they'll want cash. A more effective ad campaign will be a requirement if legalization is really going to pass.

I'm not sure who Ernest thinks is going to pay for his proposal to get on the ballot, but it seems unlikely that black market dealers are going to get together, form a union, and then donate millions to a legalization law. Dispensary owners might get together and donate heavily if the ballot measure allowed them to open their doors to the general public.

A huge problem with legalization is often people focus too much on idealism instead of the reality of how the world really works. That is exactly what is going on here.

 

[Ernst]

Did someone fart?

So how would you get the Yes voters to vote no?

Opps I mean the No voters to vote yes..

In my Corner of California we have a large Christian and Catholic population. My understanding is they are open to a new option.

Are the people of your town or city ready for a new option for Legalizing?

 

[Dan Kone]

You are promoting commerce and California has voted No twice on Commerce.

You're talking to a lot of voters who heard the objections to prop 19. They know the real reasons why prop 19 failed. You can repeat that non-sense all you want, but no one will believe you.

Have you not yet noticed that you're the ONLY person on this message board who objects to commerce being part of legalization. You claim to be supporting a majority opinion, but if that's true how come not a single person other than you is objecting to commerce language?

What you are saying is not true. The more you go on and on about it the more that falsehood becomes obvious to everyone. If prop 19 failed because the majority of people object to commerce language being written into a ballot measure then where are all the people objecting to it? You can't even find one let alone prove that a majority support you!

Everything you're saying is fraudulent. You are clearly interested only in your own personal agenda, not legalization. You want an "Ernest can sell dime bags out of his house law", not a legalization for the people law.

 

[Dan Kone]

In my Corner of California we have a large Christian and Catholic population. My understanding is they are open to a new option.

They your understanding is wrong. The religious right is never going to support legalization.

You can fiscal conservatives, libertarians, even moderate democrat and republican non-smokers if the financial aspects of the law are done well and you have an advertising campaign that appeals to their sense of logic. But you're NEVER going to get the religious right to support legalization. You might as well be asking them to support gay marriage and abortion.

 

[Ernst]

I smell gas.. What is that odor?

My friend here thinks it is the "dynamic turd tackler" at work.

I about spit my coffee out of my mouth when she said that.

So anyone how about it.. Brave the bridge crossing and avoid the troll.

What is it like in your corner of California?

 

[Dan Kone]

I smell gas.. What is that odor?

My friend here thinks it is the "dynamic turd tackler" at work.

I about spit my coffee out of my mouth when she said that.

So anyone how about it.. Brave the bridge crossing and avoid the troll.

You sound like a small child when you post stuff like that. If you're trying to eliminate the last shred of credibility you have left, well done.

What is it like in your corner of California?

Pretty sweet actually.

 

[Ernst]

Hey, Just got back from a nice walk to get some Ice Cream and I had some interesting conversations.

What I'd like to share is that I spoke at length with a man who represents the position of "Cannabis Causes cancer" and Liberals still blame Bush for it all.

Now I had a long conversation because I was able to explain fractional reserve banking as the core issue in the financial and also explained how man made chemicals have properties that natural cannabis doesn't. Hence cannabis is safe beacuse Nature is a superior craftsman.
He was impressed.

I didn't get real far on the legalization but I did plant the seed and he did listen.

This is how we make progress. We need to be out of the cannabis closet and talk to people.

This seemed to be a conservative and said he was a No voter.

Any one have a human experience they can share?