Wisconsin Revolt

[Ernst]

What we are seeing is our First World plutocracy attempting to lower the cost of labor across the board using our Government as the tool.

I'm sure we all know that our system of economics is making the planet worse day by day.. It's a sickness and the World will die but in the mean time some people will live very well indeed..
Lowering the cost of labor only delays the death that is coming for the Planet. Well it's either the Planet dies or the people are killed to keep resources and profits in check at some future point from what i can see.. You see resources are finite so the idea that wealth continuously is generated is absolute BS. We always have to take from something to have something more.. It's the Laws of Physics.. You cannot create energy you can only change it's form.

So this Republican wants to lower the Bottom while cutting taxes for the Top wealthy. True he cut 100 million in taxes for wealthy in his State before he started these anti-Union attempts. So there was no crises until he rewarded the rich in Wisconsin for his election.

Now imagine that in some distant future that it comes down to too many people for the system to handle.. Then lowering the bottom will mean exterminating the people.

So what do we want? To party until the end days or shall we stop them now?

 

[Mike Young]

Yup! That's about the gist of it. The wealthy will do WHATEVER it takes to ensure their wealth. If that means slowly, (and not so slowly in some cases) exterminating the lower class... So be it. We'll use the media to make them appear delusional.

It's a sad state of affairs indeed. The fact that people are dying in droves of starvation around the world, not because there isn't enough food to sustain all he people on this fucked up planet... No, it's because they don't have any money to pay for it. But they've got oil... Copper. Diamonds. We'll gladly take those resources off your hands. What you do with he money is up to you. I don't care if you starve your own people as long as I can shurn out a quick buck, why should I care?

This kind of mentality has gone on long enough. I believe in evolution. And I believe that greed is slowing it, if not completely bringing it to a hault. The next big step in evolution will be the eradication of the monetary system. The rich will everything in their power to stop it. It's just too bad they have so much power.

I know, I know. Fuckin socialist. Communist. Bleeding heart liberal. Fuck you for giving a shit about ohers wellbeing, and the resources of the planet.

 

[Ernst]

We'll gladly take those resources off your hands

Especially where you have no Unions to get in their way.

In this case the resource needing to be exploited better is labor.

 

[Ernst]

You know Mike.. Imagine what Nazi Germany was like when the weeding out of the Jews was taking place..
There were good people who were non-Jewish who watched and did nothing because they were clinging to their own economic self interest..

That sickness is happening to us over lowering the bottom.. Some are clinging to their economic survival and trying not to look like a proverbial Jew.

No disrespect intended towards the honourable Jewish faith. I especially love that the words are numbers.. I work with encoding data so I dig that.

 

[Mike Young]

I can see your point. I try not to bring nazi's into the equation, as this usually brings about senseless name calling and finger pointing. I think glen beck has the market cornered on the nazi comparisons anyway.

Manifest destiny also comes to mind. Lets justify our horrifying actions stating that it's for common good of mankind.

People only want to debate what they heard on the news last night, or the statistics they looked up on google trends. When the topic of human sustainability comes up, watch the diversions fly. Nobody can think for themselves anymore. If they could, they would see that we're heading for a cataclysmic abyss, and that these seemingly minor violations of human rights, pack one hell of a punch.

I am sick of it all. It's so blatently in the faces of the people, and most choose to turn away. If you believe in god, you should pray.

 

[MrDank007]

i said CORPORTATIONS. AS IN PUBLICLY TRADED ENTITIES. as in BIG MONEY. business does not equal corporations....

businesses have MULTIPLE ways to operate within the law:

self-proprietorship
co-op
non-profit
limited liability corporation
limited liability partnership
traditional partnership
joint-ventures
privately owned company
publicly traded company

just to get you started.

Yeah, I have degree and job in finance...but thanks for the recap on entity structures. Why don't you go to the S&P 500, pick out all your winners and losers for the good of mankind and balance the budget. Then tell us how to funnel it to the local governments across the land. I believe in miracles!

 

[ink the world]

. The liberals seem to think the current way of doing things is fine, but they have run out of wiggle room. They can create another inch through their methods, but eventually that gap will close as well. If a ship is sinking, you don't throw more money into it to bail out more water...you patch the hole.
The process needs...wait for it...CHANGE

You are correct the "process" needs change. After nearly 30 years it should now be completely clear that the Reagan "Trickle down economics" are an utter failure. Nothing has trickled down. In fact as big corporate (I mean the real big corps., not your local auto dealer) earnings have increased average personal wealth has dropped.

You are seeming to point a finger of blame squarely at liberals, that finger should point the other direction as well.. While last week there was a vote to stop over $30,000,000,000 in oil company subsidies and guess what? Not 1 Republican voted for it. That sir is hypocrisy at its worst.....Republicans seem to support cutting funding for programs that EXCLUSIVELY used by the poor, cutting teacher salaries and then hand that money right over to the billionaires.

How come the only Wall St. executive in prison is Madoff? These people INTENTIONALLY bilked the tax payers out of billions of $, but only 1 guy is in prison.
If my tax $ is gonna get wasted on something , Id rather it go to teachers and poor families with children than another fat assed executives million dollar bonus.


The ship isnt sinking because of Barney the Dinosaur, your childs teacher, or the 4 year old whose parents cant afford preschool.
Its sinking because of :
Iraq
Afghanistan
The Bush tax cuts
corporate tax loopholes, oil subsidies
corporate greed (remember profits go up and worker salaries go down?)




From one of my favorite movies: "you gotta be rich in the first place to think like that. Everybody know, the poor are always being fucked over by the rich. Always have, always will.

 

[londonfog]

Yeah ink i saw that too..not one Repuke voted to end the 30,000,000,000 in oil subsidies but they clapping hands that they cut 5 billion on the budget..WTF...you could have cut 30 billion just stopping the oil subsidies...

 

[ink the world]

Yeah ink i saw that too..not one Repuke voted to end the 30,000,000,000 in oil subsidies but they clapping hands that they cut 5 billion on the budget..WTF...you could have cut 30 billion just stopping the oil subsidies...

Imagine that huh?

Take from the very poorest in our society with one hand and give it to the very wealthiest with the other hand,,,,,guess they cant bite the hand.

 

[MrDank007]

You are correct the "process" needs change. After nearly 30 years it should now be completely clear that the Reagan "Trickle down economics" are an utter failure. Nothing has trickled down. In fact as big corporate (I mean the real big corps., not your local auto dealer) earnings have increased average personal wealth has dropped.

You are seeming to point a finger of blame squarely at liberals, that finger should point the other direction as well.. While last week there was a vote to stop over $30,000,000,000 in oil company subsidies and guess what? Not 1 Republican voted for it. That sir is hypocrisy at its worst.....Republicans seem to support cutting funding for programs that EXCLUSIVELY used by the poor, cutting teacher salaries and then hand that money right over to the billionaires.

How come the only Wall St. executive in prison is Madoff? These people INTENTIONALLY bilked the tax payers out of billions of $, but only 1 guy is in prison.
If my tax $ is gonna get wasted on something , Id rather it go to teachers and poor families with children than another fat assed executives million dollar bonus.


The ship isnt sinking because of Barney the Dinosaur, your childs teacher, or the 4 year old whose parents cant afford preschool.
Its sinking because of :
Iraq
Afghanistan
The Bush tax cuts
corporate tax loopholes, oil subsidies
corporate greed (remember profits go up and worker salaries go down?)




From one of my favorite movies: "you gotta be rich in the first place to think like that. Everybody know, the poor are always being fucked over by the rich. Always have, always will.

Interest on national debt, SS, Medicare, earmarks, social programs, bureaucracy. Yes, the finger points both ways. I never claimed to be a hard core republican. The Wall Street Fiasco is another debate entirely. I think the libs have every reason to be mad, yet no clue as to how it all works or what to do. And yes, the war is a clusterfuck...and none of you has said how WI or CA is going to get out of the red other than fuck the corps man!

 

[ink the world]

.and none of you has said how WI or CA is going to get out of the red other than fuck the corps man!

And taking collective bargaining away from teachers doesnt take Wisconsin or California out of debt either.

Im not against business, I own a small business. Guess what ? I pay taxes and no one gives me any damned subsidies. If my little tattoo shop can afford taxes and not get subsidies why cant GE, Exxon, and all the other large corporations....shit I guess I need to hire a lobbyist so my "voice" can be heard.

 

[londonfog]

[youtube]WBnSv3a6Nh4[/youtube]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet ...did not care to go back and look after checking the pages around the date it came out...This is just priceless...talk about showing just how StUPID Walker is...This makes me dislike him all the more...WTF...

 

[MrDank007]

And taking collective bargaining away from teachers doesnt take Wisconsin or California out of debt either.

Im not against business, I own a small business. Guess what ? I pay taxes and no one gives me any damned subsidies. If my little tattoo shop can afford taxes and not get subsidies why cant GE, Exxon, and all the other large corporations....shit I guess I need to hire a lobbyist so my "voice" can be heard.

No, collective bargaining just helped put them in debt in first place. Certainly, a continuation of biz as usual is a bad idea. A redefinition of collective bargaining needs to be put in place as well as limits and what is actually negotiable. I don't support blowing Exxon, but you guys seem to think there is a funnel between Exxon's profits and WI's debt...it doesn't work that way. The fed's can eliminate whatever they want and we will still be having this discussion....we will still be having all of these discussions.

 

[Carne Seca]

No, collective bargaining just helped put them in debt in first place. Certainly, a continuation of biz as usual is a bad idea. A redefinition of collective bargaining needs to be put in place as well as limits and what is actually negotiable. I don't support blowing Exxon, but you guys seem to think there is a funnel between Exxon's profits and WI's debt...it doesn't work that way. The fed's can eliminate whatever they want and we will still be having this discussion....we will still be having all of these discussions.

You made a claim now you have to prove it. Just exactly how has collective bargaining put them in debt?

Collective Bargaining helps reduce deficits.

Revenue shortfalls, not bargaining, drive states' deficits

Deficit free states collectively Bargain

Check the links out.

 

[MrDank007]

You made a claim now you have to prove it. Just exactly how has collective bargaining put them in debt?

The gov magically bridged the shortfall gap of pensions and benifits because they thought is a good idea...not because there was ridiculous negotiation to get there in the first place....Technically, I suppose it wasn't collective bargaining...it was the bought off politicians that agreed to it.

 

[Carne Seca]

The gov magically bridged the shortfall gap of pensions and benifits because they thought is a good idea...not because there was ridiculous negotiation to get there in the first place....Technically, I suppose it wasn't collective bargaining...it was the bought off politicians that agreed to it.

Is that straw I see you clutching?

Also you seem to be operating under some misinformation.


Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. How did they manage to do this? Why, collective bargaining of course.

 

[MrDank007]

Is that straw I see you clutching?

Please dude. Get off the ropes with those links...they suck.
The first one goes on to say yeah unions fucked up, but now we have a new layoff plan...yay!
The second one had zero substance other than revenue goes down in a recession. Winning Duh! Perhaps your liabilities were running too high?
The third one is from the liberal tampon commonly referred to as the Huffington Post, which had zero substance and rarely does.

You want to reference something, get something good that will actually provoke thought...that was dribble

 

[Carne Seca]

Please dude. Get off the ropes with those links...they suck.
The first one goes on to say yeah unions fucked up, but now we have a new layoff plan...yay!
The second one had zero substance other than revenue goes down in a recession. Winning Duh! Perhaps your liabilities were running too high?
The third one is from the liberal tampon commonly referred to as the Huffington Post, which had zero substance and rarely does.

You want to reference something, get something good that will actually provoke thought...that was dribble

Rigggghhhhttt... someone like Glen Beck I take it....

Nice deflect from that straw man argument you're building about pensions.

 

[Mike Young]

MrDank is trying to justify stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. Just let him have it. He's been programmed to do so, and knows no other way.

 

[MrDank007]

Rigggghhhhttt... someone like Glen Beck I take it....

Nice deflect from that straw man argument you're building about pensions.

What are California's unfunded liabilities? WI's? Why did the auto industry go broke? Why does the post office have people sitting around for entire shifts that can't be transferred to another location? Why does everything the unions touch turn to doo doo? For our purposes, we will call it collective bargaining.

I can't figure out why you would even post the NY times article. Did you read it?

"Across the country, taxpayers are providing pensions, benefits and job security protections for public workers that almost no one in the private sector enjoys. Taxpayers simply cannot afford to continue paying these costs, which are growing at rates far outpacing inflation."

Fuckin A...?!? If the taxpayers can't afford it, we should umm err OH YEAH FUCK THE CORPORATIONS MAN! I thought you guys were for the common good. Is bilking the average tax payer and the gov that provides other services for a select few...why that sounds like....

"For example, in New York, state government — not the city — has the authority to set pension benefits for city workers, but city taxpayers get stuck with the bill. The mayor cannot directly discuss pension benefits as part of contract negotiations with unions, even though pension benefits could be as much as 80 percent of an employee’s overall compensation. In addition, members of the State Legislature pass pension “sweeteners” for municipal unions that help attract support for their re-election campaigns."

Hmm...that don't sound good!

That’s why we are asking the state to give us the legal authority to collectively bargain a layoff policy with the teachers’ union — and in the meantime, to conduct layoffs based on common-sense factors like eliminating teachers who have been rated unsatisfactory, found guilty of criminal charges or failed to meet professional certification requirements.

Oh yay!