DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

[Heisenberg]

In terms of DWC, I think that micro-pore diffusing airstones could make a difference for the roots and micro-organisms. Bubbles will either burst, stick, or be absorbed by the roots in which they come into contact with, but ones that miss the roots will continue upwards and micro-organisms in the reservoir will slowly chomp away at the bubbles. The number of bubbles increases the "mobility" of the bubbles and I would think would allow them to penetrate larger volumes of the reservoir.

I'm by no means a microbiology guy, but I am an engineer, and I'm just applying some general logic to the scenario. Mathematically, the increase in quantity of the bubbles is proportional to the decrease in surface area, so it seems to make sense. The only real gain would be the mobility of the bubbles. Although, I can't necessarily say that the extra cleaning involved would be worth it. I would bet they clog easily, which I think somebody even mentioned earlier..

Anyway, took me about an hour or so to read through the whole thread after you pointed it out to me, Heisenberg. All I have lying around right now is soil a friend cooked up composted with tons of goodies (claims he composted with EWC, too), some subculture B/M, and something called StressZyme+ (for my aquarium, from PetSmart). I don't have any molasses lying around, so will cane sugar, honey, or maple syrup work? I also have liquid karma, which I thought might be a nice food source for the bennies while they're brewing.

Thoughts? Thanks again, Heisenberg. This all looks promising.

Any source of sugar is fine, the more complex the better. Even some fruit would do the trick. If you use granulated sugar try mixing it up really well in a small cup first. One difference is that molasses is already in a form that can quickly provide energy for the microbes. Molasses also has an array of trace minerals. Some microbes need those minerals to form enzymes.

The liquid karma is best used as directed and not in the tea.

At first glance stresszyme seems to be bacteria cultures. It is actually encapsulated enzymes and intended to send the bacteria in your aquarium into overdrive. Products with bacteria intended for aquariums are probably not a good idea, since they often contain strains that remove nitrogen from the water.

 

[Heisenberg]

hello Heisenberg, i was wondering if you knew anything about the active bacteria cultures in organic non-fat yogurt?


Yogurt instead of milk?

the yogurt im talking about is REAL organic yogurt.. not the gelatin and artificial flavor kind.
ingredients-
organic skim milk
organic skim milk powder
active bacteria cultures-
Lactobacillus acidophilis, bifidobacteria, Lactobacillus paracasei

dosage-
im thinking i would use it the same as milk, 1 tbsp/gallon for root watering and keeping compost damp.

thanks!

Lactobacillus is an excellent strain to have for breaking down compost, indeed one of the best. It has a reputation for breaking down organics without producing a terrible smell. I don't think we have much use for it in a synthetic solution.

The most useful is Lacto bacillus. This microorganism is the workhorse of the human digestive system (though luckily it is also found elsewhere). On the farm it’s used for similar tasks of digestion, something Dierks was relieved to hear last winter after the NOP had mandated that all manure be fully broken down before use. He applied his L. bacillus culture to the mound of manure beside his field, and the composting was faster than ever. Similarly, when sprayed on plants, L. bacilli will digest the biomass on the leaves and stems—dust, for instance, or mud—thus making that free food available to its host.

Lactic acid bacteria is also known to produce enzymes and natural antibiotics aiding effective digestion and has antibacterial properties, including control of salmonella and e. coli. To farmers, what are observed are the general health of the plants and animals, better nutrient assimilation, feed conversion and certain toxins eliminations.

 

[Heisenberg]

One thing I love is that you guys keep me learning. When researching L bacilli I came across this great article. It explains, among other things, a way to gather your microbes from nature without buying any products at all. Of course this is more work than most of us would have time for, but it's interesting to know it's possible.

More specific,

One technique in culturing other beneficial microorganism is getting them fro your local aged forest. One way is finding a healthy old robust tree in your local forest.

Check the humus litter around the tree. The tree should have accumulated real deep humus, litter, compost of at least 2 feet to 1 yard deep. In this area through observation, we can deduce that soil fertility and microbial biodiversity are high.

Our goal is to trap and culture these diversed, aged beneficial indigenous microorganisms. The technique that we use in trapping these microorganisms is the use of carbohydrate like cooked rice. Microorganisms will be attracted to food.

So generally, what we do is to put the cooked rice on a flatter container with lid. For example, you can use a plastic lunch box and add about an inch of cooked rice allowing air space in the container. What is important here is a larger area to trap those microorganisms. It is suggested that you cover this container with metal netting or equivalent protecting it from animals like rats that may undig your container once you bury it in the litter, humus of your local forest. In 2-10 days (relative to temperature), you may undig your container and will notice contamination of microorganisms like white and other color molds on the cooked rice.

The cooked rice has been infected now with microorganisms of your local forest. The next step is to add 1/3 amount of crude sugar or molasses to the infected cooked rice. After a week, the concoction will look like sticky, liquidy rice. You may then add equal amount of crude sugar or molasses to keep it for storage, arresting microbial activities, in a cooler area.

To use, you may dilute this serum with 20 parts water. This diluted form shall then serve as your basic forest microorganisms. You may strain it and put in a container.

Another version of trapping similar forest microorganisms is simply getting the litter, humus and spreading them sparingly to the top your cooked rice. Forest leaf molds can also be used.

The same procedure will be followed as described in the culture of local forest microorganisms.

Also found this bit interesting

Any farmer who has suffered Phytopthera or Verticillium is familiar with microorganisms, but not the good kind. Luckily, as Carandang explains, these pathogens comprise only three to five percent of all microbes. “If it were more,” he says, “we’d all be dead.”
Plants and humans are protected from pathogens by diversity—it leads to competition, which prevents any single microbe from going out of control. In the forest, this diversity comes naturally as different plants and animals attract and support different microorganisms.

 

[supaleeb]

Is it possible to somehow deactivate the micro-organisms in this tea, and gather up their spores and whatnot for later use? Seems like there should be a nice way to preserve such a diverse tea for a period longer than 10 days.

 

[bustinJs]

after brewing some of your tea for 24 hours (the tea came out very dark in color, is this normal) i added 1.5gal to a 12gal res. of just water. i then took the plants roots and tried my best to spray them off (but am afraid i did not do a good enough job) some of the roots were quite long nearly 16". within just a few hours after putting the roots back some dark brown bits of slime on the roots. (i assumed it was just small bits of dead slime) about 36 hours later i got a chance to check them again. (this morning) it looked like some one had dipped my ladies roots in some chocolate fondue!!!!!!! &#$%%$^&#%*^#%*^%$&. i am out of peroxide so i just dumped the res's cleaned them with mild bleach water rinsed and refilled 12gal ea water; 1.5gal ea tea (72 hrs old.. kept in aerated bucket); and .5tsp ea of Oregonism XL. this time i cut most of the root mass down...aside from all the little 1" roots that didnt have chocolate fondue on them.
did i do something wrong? will this time work? #%$#$@^i hate this

 

[Heisenberg]

after brewing some of your tea for 24 hours (the tea came out very dark in color, is this normal) i added 1.5gal to a 12gal res. of just water. i then took the plants roots and tried my best to spray them off (but am afraid i did not do a good enough job) some of the roots were quite long nearly 16". within just a few hours after putting the roots back some dark brown bits of slime on the roots. (i assumed it was just small bits of dead slime) about 36 hours later i got a chance to check them again. (this morning) it looked like some one had dipped my ladies roots in some chocolate fondue!!!!!!! &#$%%$^&#%*^#%*^%$&. i am out of peroxide so i just dumped the res's cleaned them with mild bleach water rinsed and refilled 12gal ea water; 1.5gal ea tea (72 hrs old.. kept in aerated bucket); and .5tsp ea of Oregonism XL. this time i cut most of the root mass down...aside from all the little 1" roots that didnt have chocolate fondue on them.
did i do something wrong? will this time work? #%$#$@^i hate this

You should start by following what has worked for others. Brew tea no longer than 48 hours. Use 1 cup per gallon of res for initial inoculation. 1 cup every few days after.

 

[smithmds]

Yeah bustinJ's, you used twice the recommended amount. 16 cups to a gallon so a 12 gallon res needs 12 cups of tea or 3/4 of a gallon. I'm giving the tea my first go tomorrow and the day after. I'll post how I came out...I did use sub culture b/m with the Ancient Forest, should be the same outcome though

 

[new smokey]

Invest in a worm bed. make tea and poof benifical microbs.

 

[smithmds]

Is it ok if I put a water pump in the tea bucket? Its getting the water pretty turbulent but I'm worried that it might be warming the water too much. I do have an air stone in the sock with the Ancient Forest...

 

[letitgrow79]

i just started a new batch tonight and before i throw it in my rez i just want to ask a couple of questions.

1. Do i need to treat my res and roots with H2O2 before i add the brew?
2. Will the brew clean the current root mass of slime or just keep the new root growth from getting infected by the slime?
2. How long after the initial inoculation (fresh water and brew) should i start seeing positive results from the brew?

 

[smithmds]

I too had slime and brown-ish gunk today. Had to batch up some tea...

1. If you have slime in your res or on your roots, you should attempt to sterilize everything and rid your environment of slime, bacteria, etc. Definitely do not add H202 to the res after the brew.

You can spray H202 at 3% directly on the roots, however you will want to rinse it in 15 minutes. I use isopropyl alcohol to clean my equipment and H202 to clean my air stones. Anything cleaned with alcohol should be rinsed thoroughly, preferably with hot water.

2. If you have slime on your roots, the brew might not help much. If the brew contains a beneficial bacteria and other goodies but it has to compete with the bad stuff that has already got a huge head start, well...you best have some super-stud bennies.

3. The brew should inoculate in a bucket with an air stone for for 24-48 hours. Once it's been 48 hours, add it to your res. Those buggers are ready to go! Assuming you're not using organize nutes, then go ahead and add them too. You should see new root growth with 36 hours. The slime should not come back. Every three days you should be adding the brew back in to your res, this is because you should be starving it in your res. 1cup per gallon initially, then 1 cup every 3 days after that.

 

[ClamDigger]

Lactobacillus is an excellent strain to have for breaking down compost, indeed one of the best. It has a reputation for breaking down organics without producing a terrible smell. I don't think we have much use for it in a synthetic solution.

Thanks Heisenberg!
+rep
great articles!

 

[Heisenberg]

Is it ok if I put a water pump in the tea bucket? Its getting the water pretty turbulent but I'm worried that it might be warming the water too much. I do have an air stone in the sock with the Ancient Forest...

You should be fine. As long as the solution isn't getting above 85ish the bugs will love it.

 

[Heisenberg]

Is it possible to somehow deactivate the micro-organisms in this tea, and gather up their spores and whatnot for later use? Seems like there should be a nice way to preserve such a diverse tea for a period longer than 10 days.

You can make a rice cake type mold as described in a previous post, though I personally have no experience with that. According to the article it will keep for years. Otherwise I think the $6 at fungi.com is easier.

My brew with the mycogrow powder now has a great earthy/moss type smell. Seems to be working, although I wont know for a couple days. I put it in a res with a small clone that is a bit lagging in root development so I'll keep an eye on it's progress.

 

[Heisenberg]

I too had slime and brown-ish gunk today. Had to batch up some tea...

1. If you have slime in your res or on your roots, you should attempt to sterilize everything and rid your environment of slime, bacteria, etc. Definitely do not add H202 to the res after the brew.

You can spray H202 at 3% directly on the roots, however you will want to rinse it in 15 minutes. I use isopropyl alcohol to clean my equipment and H202 to clean my air stones. Anything cleaned with alcohol should be rinsed thoroughly, preferably with hot water.

2. If you have slime on your roots, the brew might not help much. If the brew contains a beneficial bacteria and other goodies but it has to compete with the bad stuff that has already got a huge head start, well...you best have some super-stud bennies.

3. The brew should inoculate in a bucket with an air stone for for 24-48 hours. Once it's been 48 hours, add it to your res. Those buggers are ready to go! Assuming you're not using organize nutes, then go ahead and add them too. You should see new root growth with 36 hours. The slime should not come back. Every three days you should be adding the brew back in to your res, this is because you should be starving it in your res. 1cup per gallon initially, then 1 cup every 3 days after that.

Right on the nose. Clean and sterilize as best you can, and then add already active bennies. Be careful that no organic material enters the res. This includes ph adjusters and any other additives, like superthrive. Brown gunk on the roots in not necessarily a bad thing, it could be humic acid. Mine will occasionally get patches of brown or black when they are younger, though it is temporary and does not stunt root growth. If a day goes by with no root growth what-so-ever, the slime is probably back. If you have slime coming back even after you use the tea, then you need to examine your methods. Tailoring things to suit your grow is fine, but you must first start with tried and true.

 

[smithmds]

Organic material in a DWC is a big no-no, unless you are doing biobuckets, which is a much different and more involved beast.

What about the Ancient Forest? It says 100% organic on it. Am I to get 100% of anything floating in the bucket out there?

My water looks pretty dark, darker than my blue air stone. Hope that's normal....reminds me too much of the dark slime I just spent all day cleaning up.

 

[smithmds]

I freaking love this forum...reminds me back in the day of Overgrow. :sigh: those were the days....also the days when I didn't have brown slime algae to deal with.

 

[Heisenberg]

What about the Ancient Forest? It says 100% organic on it. Am I to get 100% of anything floating in the bucket out there?

My water looks pretty dark, darker than my blue air stone. Hope that's normal....reminds me too much of the dark slime I just spent all day cleaning up.

View attachment 1376906View attachment 1376905View attachment 1376907

Organic material in the tea is fine, and after 48 hours is probably mostly broken down, so you don't have to filter the tea super well. Organic material in the res is even ok after the slime is long gone and you have a well established microbe community and robust root system.

The ewc itself will turn the water light-med brown. Some products like the mycogrow powder and great white, turn the water near black. As long as the tea has no foul odor, it's fine to use.

 

[smithmds]

Organic material in the tea is fine, and after 48 hours is probably mostly broken down, so you don't have to filter the tea super well. Organic material in the res is even ok after the slime is long gone and you have a well established microbe community and robust root system.

The ewc itself will turn the water light-med brown. Some products like the mycogrow powder and great white, turn the water near black. As long as the tea has no foul odor, it's fine to use.

Thanks again. I'm so excited to use this tea I may not sleep. Sick.

 

[supaleeb]

I'm so excited to use this tea I may not sleep. Sick.

Hah, I know the feeling. My first batch will be ready in about an hour.