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researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
This is an official "FUCK! HELP!" post. :) Something is wrong with the electric subpanel I'm wiring up. I attached the two hot (black wires) to the new circuit and snapped it in place, then the green neutral or ground not sure whatever it is to the bus with all the white wires to it.

My electric meter hot test tool says I have power to all of the outlets, even when the circuit in the new subpanel is disconnected. The top circuit trips as well by making a pop sound with a spark when you try to turn the top circuit on.

I have two suspicions, but not knowledgeable enough to try them myself yet without some "Sounds good!" advice or the right advice from the forums here......... My first thought is that the ground/neutral may be on the wrong bar. The second thought is that the circuit in the new panel that is tripping might just have a loose pigtail connection or something between one of the 8 outlets on the top. Then again it may be one single problem too, I just dont know. I think its the bus for the ground because when the circuits are off I still get a red light on my active electricity monitor gadget. I think its the wiring to one of the outlets since its a single circuit that trips not all four. Still, no f'n clue. :)

Help a girl out, any wise electricians able to spot the problem? Normal power is up now, so next try will be tomorrow morning if we can get it figured out....... Thanks in advance and a million +rep's. :)


#28 - The new circuit in the main panel.



#29 - Is this the right bar for the green wire? Or is it the one in the back?? :)



#30 -



#31 - The new subpanel, this is what the circuit in #28 connects to.



#32 -



#33 -



#34 -



#35 - My wiring job



#36 -



Any ideas? :) Thanks everyone..............
 

Attachments

justlearning73

justlearning73

Well-Known Member
Kitty, I am not an eltrician, but green is normally a ground wire and white is normally a nuetral. They normally go on different bars.
 
Bonzi Lighthouse

Bonzi Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
Oh befor i get all cute bring someone in that knows their shit to help you, this is serious business, ok now on to being cute.

I snaped a couple of pictures of my own of work in progress:

Mr. Kitty on the pole outside



RC taking a break



Even the kids are helping out

 
justlearning73

justlearning73

Well-Known Member
Kitty sorry forgot this was 240. I am not sure if that matters or not. From what i see it looks like you have the green wire on the nuetral bar in the "main" panel but you have it on the ground in the sub panel. Green and bare copper wires are normally grounds. White are nuetral and black is normally hot wires. All i have normally done with 240 is change out a outlet for the drier. I am sorry i am not much help.
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member

#35 - My wiring job

This is wired wrong also

Should be
white to white black to brass.

Edit....

Where the fuck is the black wire going next to your white? You really shouldn't be playing around with panels and receptacles like this if you don't know what you're doing....
 
woodsmaneh!

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
One of those black wires should be red. (yes the colour does matter) The green wire should be White and of course the ground. The colours make it easy to spot problems. At least buy some electrical tape in green and red and tape the ends so we know what were looking at.

see below and recheck, see how colour makes it easy to follow. Please use the right colours. You should go and buy a real cable for the job and not use lose wires, very dangerous.

I know a lot of contractors that do all the jobs but one, electrical, why, Fire and Insurance reasons. If you burn the place down because of electrical they won't pay.

ARE YOU USING A WHITE FOR GROUND?

Please make sure you power down when doing any work we don't want a scorched kitty.
 
woodsmaneh!

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Connecting The Sub-Feed
To The Sub-Panel:

1. The hot wires (red and black) are connected to the hot bus bars.
2. The neutral (white) wire is connected to the large lug on the neutral bus bar.
3. The ground wire (bare copper) is connected to the ground bus.
The following photos show close-up views of these connections.
Some panel wiring suggestions:
It doesn't hurt to have a little extra wire inside the panel. When possible, I prefer to route the ground and neutral wires around the perimeter of the panel, in neat straight lines with corners. As the panel fills up, I will route the wires closer to the middle.
 
woodsmaneh!

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
1. Connecting the hot wires.

These connectors need to be pretty tight... but I couldn't find a torque specification anywhere on the panel or in the instructions.

2. Connecting the Neutral Wire to the Large Lug.

This also needs to be quite tight.
The regular terminal points on the bus bar can accept wires from number 14 up to number 8. Larger wires (i.e. a smaller gauge number) require a larger lug.
Note that you can usually buy a large lug like this, which is installed in two terminal points in the neutral bus bar.

3. Connecting the ground wire.

6-3 cable uses a smaller ground wire than the conductors (I think it's number 8), so the ground wire can fit into any of the connection points in the ground bus bar.

Adding Branch Circuits:

We ran a piece of 14-2G non-metallic cable into the sub-panel.

The cable entered the panel from below, right next to the black sub-feed cable. This circuit simply supplied power to a 2-gang junction box behind the sub-panel. From this point the circuit will feed a string of outlets and a ceiling fan.

Inside the sub-panel: We carefully slit the cable jacket and cut away the plastic.

We connected the ground wire to the ground bus.
To connect the white wire to the neutral bus, we made a sharp turn in the wire and stripped about ½" of insulation from the end.

The bare end of the wire goes under one of the screw terminals. The screw needs to be fairly tight... about 30 to 50 inch-pounds I believe.

The hot wire was connected to a 15 Amp single-pole breaker.

Now the breaker can be installed in the panel.
Cutler-Hammer breakers have a hook on the back end...

... which grabs onto a metal flange in the circuit breaker panel.
The breaker pivots about the hook...

... and is pushed firmly in place onto the hot bus bar.
The first circuit breaker (red arrow) has been installed. A rectangular knock-out needs to be removed from the cover panel to accommodate each breaker.
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
Is the third wire for 240v ground or neutral? And which bar is it connected to now? :)
Click to expand...
240 works by combining two 120 volt lines, hence the two black hot wires on your breaker. At the breaker it will only be 120volt on each pole, the receptacles are what combine the poles to create 240volts so there is no need for a neutral or common wire, only 2 hot and 1 ground. Unless of course you're dealing with straight 240 then there is a neutral (in your case there isn't) I suggest you find yourself an electrician before you fry yourself or start a fire.

Best of luck.
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
woodsmaneh! said:
One of those black wires should be red. (yes the colour does matter) The green wire should be White and of course the ground. The colours make it easy to spot problems. At least buy some electrical tape in green and red and tape the ends so we know what were looking at.

I think the two blacks at your sub need to be reversed.

ARE YOU USING A WHITE FOR GROUND?

Please make sure you power down when doing any work we don't want a scorched kitty.
Click to expand...
No, No, No, and AGAIN NO

Please do not give misinformation when it comes to electrical

Red, Black, and Blue wires indicate hot wires, it does NOT have to be red.

With a 240 volt circuit like this there is no neutral wire! two hot 120volt wires + 1 ground
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
woodsmaneh! said:
1. Connecting the hot wires.

These connectors need to be pretty tight... but I couldn't find a torque specification anywhere on the panel or in the instructions.

2. Connecting the Neutral Wire to the Large Lug.

This also needs to be quite tight.
The regular terminal points on the bus bar can accept wires from number 14 up to number 8. Larger wires (i.e. a smaller gauge number) require a larger lug.
Note that you can usually buy a large lug like this, which is installed in two terminal points in the neutral bus bar.

3. Connecting the ground wire.

6-3 cable uses a smaller ground wire than the conductors (I think it's number 8), so the ground wire can fit into any of the connection points in the ground bus bar.

Adding Branch Circuits:

We ran a piece of 14-2G non-metallic cable into the sub-panel.

The cable entered the panel from below, right next to the black sub-feed cable. This circuit simply supplied power to a 2-gang junction box behind the sub-panel. From this point the circuit will feed a string of outlets and a ceiling fan.

Inside the sub-panel: We carefully slit the cable jacket and cut away the plastic.

We connected the ground wire to the ground bus.
To connect the white wire to the neutral bus, we made a sharp turn in the wire and stripped about ½" of insulation from the end.

The bare end of the wire goes under one of the screw terminals. The screw needs to be fairly tight... about 30 to 50 inch-pounds I believe.

The hot wire was connected to a 15 Amp single-pole breaker.

Now the breaker can be installed in the panel.
Cutler-Hammer breakers have a hook on the back end...

... which grabs onto a metal flange in the circuit breaker panel.
The breaker pivots about the hook...

... and is pushed firmly in place onto the hot bus bar.
The first circuit breaker (red arrow) has been installed. A rectangular knock-out needs to be removed from the cover panel to accommodate each breaker.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant - that is wiring for 120 volts....
 
woodsmaneh!

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
May be not in your country but it won't pass inspection here and is dangerous.

You NEED to have a 4 wire feed for a sub panel, 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground. You need to have the neutral and ground separated in the sub panel. Turn it off until you redo it correctly. I would recommend hiring an electrician. Watch him or her for next time. What you did is wrong and dangerous.

And ahole your right should not give electrical advice.
 
Arsehole

Arsehole

Well-Known Member
woodsmaneh! said:
May be not in your country but it won't pass inspection here and is dangerous.

You NEED to have a 4 wire feed for a sub panel, 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground. You need to have the neutral and ground separated in the sub panel. Turn it off until you redo it correctly. I would recommend hiring an electrician. Watch him or her for next time. What you did is wrong and dangerous.

And ahole your right should not give electrical advice.
Click to expand...
Wrong. That's if its a 120/240 sub panel. 10/2 for 240 sub panel is fine.
 
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