Bubblelicious, New York Power Diesel, and Super Skunk in DWC

[statik]

As long as you keep the vents on the chiller pointing away from your tent you should be fine Bob. I talked to some people @ Hydro Innovations and they pretty much told me as long as I can keep my chiller about 12 feet from my tent (all in a bedroom) it should be fine. If you keep the temps in the water low, it will pull the heat from the chiller as well.

200 gallons res? I am not sure you need THAT much. Why dont you do what I did and write to Hydro Innovations? They answered all my questions in no time:

[email protected]

Glad to see you are leaning towards water cooling. The more I look at it, it just makes a lot of sense.

Also, check Craigslist for Barrels Bob, found some really nice top locking ones myself.

 

[cazador]

Guys, this is great stuff. I'm all ears, as I'm almost in-line with what you are all doing at the moment.
this is the short of where I'm at. (guess I should start my own journal. ).
1st grow in new space. still in the design process, working out the kinks. 32 days 12/12.
1 - 12'x6' flower room, 3-1000w HPS, 6" in-line air cooled (outside air return to outside),Sentinel chhc-1 and Sentinel MDT-1, CAP MLC-4X High Power Relay, 3- 4'x4' flood trays. 40 pint dehumidifier, CAP gen1e 4 burner CO2 generator, 3 oscillating fans, 1500w heater, 2 - 6" in-line exhaust fans(lights and room)... I'll stop here.

so I'm at the point I want to "seal" the room or deal with the heat to better hold on to CO2.

 

[Bob Smith]

As long as you keep the vents on the chiller pointing away from your tent you should be fine Bob. I talked to some people @ Hydro Innovations and they pretty much told me as long as I can keep my chiller about 12 feet from my tent (all in a bedroom) it should be fine. If you keep the temps in the water low, it will pull the heat from the chiller as well.

200 gallons res? I am not sure you need THAT much. Why dont you do what I did and write to Hydro Innovations? They answered all my questions in no time:

[email protected]

Glad to see you are leaning towards water cooling. The more I look at it, it just makes a lot of sense.

Also, check Craigslist for Barrels Bob, found some really nice top locking ones myself.

Statik, my man - since you're the first person I've come across who uses a chiller, prepare to have your brain picked.

What size is your chiller? What size is your rez? What temp do you keep the rez at, and how easily can the chiller handle it? How much heat (in your professional opinion) would you say the chiller puts off?

Also in your professional opinion (best guess), what size chiller and reservoir would I need to keep that area cool?

Remember, this is the only cooling - no AC of any sort, so when it's 100F outside, the only thing keeping it 70F in the garage will be some Ice Boxes and some fans - is this realistic??

And Cazador, it seems that we're all shooting for the same thing - teamwork's a lovely thing

I'll let you guys know what HI comes back with in response to my email.

 

[statik]

Statik, my man - since you're the first person I've come across who uses a chiller, prepare to have your brain picked.

What size is your chiller? What size is your rez? What temp do you keep the rez at, and how easily can the chiller handle it? How much heat (in your professional opinion) would you say the chiller puts off?

Also in your professional opinion (best guess), what size chiller and reservoir would I need to keep that area cool?

Remember, this is the only cooling - no AC of any sort, so when it's 100F outside, the only thing keeping it 70F in the garage will be some Ice Boxes and some fans - is this realistic??

And Cazador, it seems that we're all shooting for the same thing - teamwork's a lovely thing

I'll let you guys know what HI comes back with in response to my email.

Actually I am not using the chiller just yet. I bought it ahead of summer, thinking ahead and all.

I am going to run through your Q's as best as possible, then tell you what my little test showed.

1. I am only running 1 600w light. So I have a 1/4 HP chiller.

2. I have been told this chiller can handle a tank (or res) up to over 100 gallons. I will be using a 25 gal or so.

3. You will want to start the chiller running before lights (or heat) becomes an issue. That way you have cold air pumping before heat has a chance to even build up.

I want to keep my res at about 55 - 60 degrees. The settings go all the way down to 32 degrees.

4. Chiller seemed to handle the heat decently actually (explain more in a bit).

5. It does produce some heat, I locked it running in my (closed) bathroom for about 30 minutes and it brought air temps up about 10 - 15 degrees. Keep in mind this is like a 10x5 room Bob, and no Ice Box running either.

If I have the door open and the chiller running, it doesnt even warm up my apartment...which is small.

6. I think that a 2 HP may be a little large, but wait to see what HI has to say. I think maybe a 100 gallon res would do it Bob, if you have a 2 HP chiller and kick it on early like I mentioned...doubt youd have heat issues at all.

7. Yes, Realistic IMO. If you can get the temps coming out of your Ice Box's even to 70 degrees you are cooling the air right? You did watch the Ice Box video yes? He shows you 58 degree air coming out one of the Ice Box's. I think he is using a 5 HP chiller across six 1k watters. I think the res is like 50 gal? Dont quote me on that though! Air temps = 58 degrees out the Ice Box.

Now, when I got my little 1/4 HP aquarium chiller I took it straight into the bathroom. Plugged all my hoses etc in, and then filled up the tub with the hottest water I would get.

I think when i kicked the chiller on it said the temps in the water were like 94 degrees. I ran the chiller for about 2 hours and the water got down to about 40 degrees...and this was with the chiller pushing its own heat into the room as well.

As far as the heat production of the chiller, mine is smaller..so it prolly wont push as much heat out as a 2 HP. Then again, mine wont chill as quickly as yours either.

I am pretty sure this is an option for you Bob. It's just figuring whats what exactly.

Hope that helps some at least...and if not...screw you!

J/K

EDIT: Come to think about it, maybe a 2 HP is about right.

 

[Bob Smith]

Actually I am not using the chiller just yet. I bought it ahead of summer, thinking ahead and all.

I am going to run through your Q's as best as possible, then tell you what my little test showed.

1. I am only running 1 600w light. So I have a 1/4 HP chiller.

2. I have been told this chiller can handle a tank (or res) up to over 100 gallons. I will be using a 25 gal or so.

3. You will want to start the chiller running before lights (or heat) becomes an issue. That way you have cold air pumping before heat has a chance to even build up.

I want to keep my res at about 55 - 60 degrees. The settings go all the way down to 32 degrees.

4. Chiller seemed to handle the heat decently actually (explain more in a bit).

5. It does produce some heat, I locked it running in my (closed) bathroom for about 30 minutes and it brought air temps up about 10 - 15 degrees. Keep in mind this is like a 10x5 room Bob, and no Ice Box running either.

If I have the door open and the chiller running, it doesnt even warm up my apartment...which is small.

6. I think that a 2 HP may be a little large, but wait to see what HI has to say. I think maybe a 100 gallon res would do it Bob, if you have a 2 HP chiller and kick it on early like I mentioned...doubt youd have heat issues at all.

7. Yes, Realistic IMO. If you can get the temps coming out of your Ice Box's even to 70 degrees you are cooling the air right? You did watch the Ice Box video yes? He shows you 58 degree air coming out one of the Ice Box's. I think he is using a 5 HP chiller across six 1k watters. I think the res is like 50 gal? Dont quote me on that though! Air temps = 58 degrees out the Ice Box.

Now, when I got my little 1/4 HP aquarium chiller I took it straight into the bathroom. Plugged all my hoses etc in, and then filled up the tub with the hottest water I would get.

I think when i kicked the chiller on it said the temps in the water were like 94 degrees. I ran the chiller for about 2 hours and the water got down to about 40 degrees...and this was with the chiller pushing its own heat into the room as well.

As far as the heat production of the chiller, mine is smaller..so it prolly wont push as much heat out as a 2 HP. Then again, mine wont chill as quickly as yours either.

I am pretty sure this is an option for you Bob. It's just figuring whats what exactly.

Hope that helps some at least...and if not...screw you!

J/K

Thanks man, really appreciate it kiss-ass

Got an answer from HI, it's in the other thread I started (link is above) - sounds like the chiller needs to be outside...........so we're back to square one (kinda).

If I could find a good way to disguise it it may be an option, but a chiller's even shadier then a split AC, IMO.

Right now, back on the split AC kick.

Fudge, I was really into that idea for a minute.

 

[statik]

So you have no way of venting the Chillers air out of the garage? No vents in the ceiling...nothing...whatever...tra la la?

The chiller DOES (at least the chillking) kind of resemble an outside A/C unit. The garage is supposed to be a "man cave." Right? So you are moving out of the stone age air cooled A/C...and decided to do things right and water chill your cave..lmao. Shooting in the dark now...I know.

 

[Bob Smith]

So you have no way of venting the Chillers air out of the garage? No vents in the ceiling...nothing...whatever...tra la la?

I'm gonna take another hard look in a bit inside the garage for options, but if there are vents, I'd just get a big portable AC, methinks.

 

[smokingrubber]

Can you buy a small outdoor shed and place it against the building? Then you can run the water lines into it from the back without anyone seeing. Keep it locked.

Side bar: I bought my niece the greatest gift ever when she was about 5. I got her a rock tumbler. My sister and brother-in-law fukn hated me for years after that. Its an electric tumbling barrel thats full of rocks and it has to run for about a month straight! (BrotherIL duct taped it into a styrofoam ice-chest) If you were into polished rocks, it wouldn't be uncommon for you to want the tumbler outside in a shed Perfect cover story and a polisher is cheap. Rocks are even cheaper

 

[Bob Smith]

Can you buy a small outdoor shed and place it against the building? Then you can run the water lines into it from the back without anyone seeing. Keep it locked.

Side bar: I bought my niece the greatest gift ever when she was about 5. I got her a rock tumbler. My sister and brother-in-law fukn hated me for years after that. Its an electric tumbling barrel thats full of rocks and it has to run for about a month straight! (BrotherIL duct taped it into a styrofoam ice-chest) If you were into polished rocks, it wouldn't be uncommon for you to want the tumbler outside in a shed Perfect cover story and a polisher is cheap. Rocks are even cheaper

Yeah, didn't go out in the garage (lazy), but I think I'm gonna go with the original plan and just get a mini-split.

It is what it is - although not 100% stealthy, with the outdoor unit forty feet from the garage, it's kinda stealthy - could lie and say it's supplemental AC for my central air.

Also, can get a mini-split fully installed (I'm guessing) for $1500; the chiller/icebox system was looking like $4-$5K when it was all said and done.

Still going to try to use a chiller instead of a portable AC inside of my flower tent, though - gonna be brainstorming on that.

 

[Integra21]

I dont know if you have a utility room or some room people generally dont go into that shares a wall with your garage, but If you do, you might be able to put the chiller in there and just run a couple of lines through the garage. And realistically, you only have to be able to get the temps down to about 80 with the chiller, since you plant on running co2 and are going to be shooting for the 83-85 range. being able to get down to 80 will keep the plants happy enough if the co2 fails. Just something else to think about.

 

[Bob Smith]

I dont know if you have a utility room or some room people generally dont go into that shares a wall with your garage, but If you do, you might be able to put the chiller in there and just run a couple of lines through the garage. And realistically, you only have to be able to get the temps down to about 80 with the chiller, since you plant on running co2 and are going to be shooting for the 83-85 range. being able to get down to 80 will keep the plants happy enough if the co2 fails. Just something else to think about.

Yeah, unfortunately there's really nothing like that available - garage only shares one wall, and that's with the back of my fridge and stove (which should be good for natural gas, but that's about it).

Honestly just gonna do the mini-split - it made sense at first, and still does - whereas I fell in love with the idea of the chiller yesterday, I can't be blowing whole days on setup "thoughts" when I've actually got stuff to do.

Gonna get the mini-split, a natural gas line run, and (hopefully, although I don't know how realistic it is) a sink put in there.

Once I've got the basics in there, then I can start thinking of what else to do - definitely still planning on running a chilled reservoir inside of the tent to cool the lights and possibly a HydroGen.

 

[Bob Smith]

So, put the harvested plants into jars last night, and burped them for about ten minutes this morning - alll's well on that front.

On the clone side, about 1/2 are showing some rootage (defined as giving me good resistance when I tug on them), so that's good - shooting to take the humidity domes off in a couple of days for vegging, and then veg for a few days under my 1K in the flowering tent.

Sprayed them with a solution of weak nutes and that 3-in-1 fungicide/miticide/insecticide spray that I have, as there were some that were yellowing - we'll see how that goes.

All in all I'm pleased, as the clones are marginally ahead of schedule, and I still might hit my target 12/12 date of Valentine's Day.

Still awaiting a reply from SeeMore about what height he thinks I should flower at, but I'm guessing from 5-6" would be good - anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[smokingrubber]

"tugging" on the babies is not allowed! WTF? You break it, you buy it! LOL.

 

[Bob Smith]

"tugging" on the babies is not allowed! WTF? You break it, you buy it! LOL.

You're 100% correct; I shoulnd't do it, but there's no other way to check if they're rooting at all, so I give a gentle pull on them - gonna try to not touch them for another five days and see what happens.

The best way is probably just wait until they start showing some good new growth, so hopefully in five days that'll be evident.

 

[Bob Smith]

Since I'm doing this grow as a pretty organized and uniform (that's the plan, anyways) grow of 144, I was going to try to run an experiment (I'm actually planning this for all of my future grows, until everything I've wanted to try has been done).

That being said, trying to figure out what to "test" this grow - nutes aren't an option until I get my new setup with separate reservoirs, but other things are.

So far the candidates are:

1) Lollipopping 72 and leaving 72 au natural - pretty sure I know how this one will work out, but would be willing to give it a shot

2) Foliar feeding 72 in addition to the flooding feedings

If anyone has anything else that they'd like to be tested, lemme know and maybe that'll be what gets tested.

 

[jjfoo]

Clones taken yesterday – I hate Rapid Rooters because the SOBs can barely stand by themselves.

If you put the wide side down it will balance better than putting the narrow side down.

 

[DaGambler]

i also got pretty excited watching those seemorebuds videos, bob. the way he lays it out ... x number of plants yeilded x amount of buds .... x more number of plants yielded x more amount of buds ...

but like you said, he took 300 clones on the most crowded group ... and some of that was time wasted 'cuz 100 of them died from being crowded out. i ran about 98 plants for one run... then doubled up and ran 2 per pot with around 200 plants... then 3 per pot and had around 300 plants going... then realized that numbers aren't all they are cracked up to be.

now i run 48 plants in that same area and intend to keep doing so. this also keeps me below the magic number of '99' even when you include the 48 clones.

If you vedge for even a week longer (rather than going from clone straight to flower) you can cut ur plant numbers in half while still maintaining a SOG. Another week after that and you can cut ur plant numbers in half again. So, after this run at least, i hope that you'll also be willing to experiment with running less plants. Keep ur uncle sam happy.
.

 

[Bob Smith]

i also got pretty excited watching those seemorebuds videos, bob. the way he lays it out ... x number of plants yeilded x amount of buds .... x more number of plants yielded x more amount of buds ...

but like you said, he took 300 clones on the most crowded group ... and some of that was time wasted 'cuz 100 of them died from being crowded out. i ran about 98 plants for one run... then doubled up and ran 2 per pot with around 200 plants... then 3 per pot and had around 300 plants going... then realized that numbers aren't all they are cracked up to be.

now i run 48 plants in that same area and intend to keep doing so. this also keeps me below the magic number of '99' even when you include the 48 clones.

If you vedge for even a week longer (rather than going from clone straight to flower) you can cut ur plant numbers in half while still maintaining a SOG. Another week after that and you can cut ur plant numbers in half again. So, after this run at least, i hope that you'll also be willing to experiment with running less plants. Keep ur uncle sam happy.
.

Yeah, that's the one downside to what I like to do, unfortunately - in regards to the plant numbers, I'm gonna start with just about what SMB finished with.

And yeah, this 9/sf thing is just a one-time novelty grow, IMO - probably go back to 4/sf if not less for my grow after this one (hopefully starting sometime in mid-May, with all the additions that I was able to get for my garage like AC, sink, etc.).

After that I've got some CRAZY shit planned out (but it's a secret , for now) that's kept me up for three days straight.

BTW, will have a final yield number tomorrow (for anyone looking for a nice laugh )

 

[statik]

Yeah, that's the one downside to what I like to do, unfortunately - in regards to the plant numbers, I'm gonna start with just about what SMB finished with.

And yeah, this 9/sf thing is just a one-time novelty grow, IMO - probably go back to 4/sf if not less for my grow after this one (hopefully starting sometime in mid-May, with all the additions that I was able to get for my garage like AC, sink, etc.).

After that I've got some CRAZY shit planned out (but it's a secret , for now) that's kept me up for three days straight.

BTW, will have a final yield number tomorrow (for anyone looking for a nice laugh )

Bleh, cant be that BAD of a yied can it Bob? I'll only laugh if I get more than you with my little 600w and my Co2 boost bucket (highly doubt that will happen).

So when does the new journal start buddy?

 

[Bob Smith]

Bleh, cant be that BAD of a yied can it Bob? I'll only laugh if I get more than you with my little 600w and my Co2 boost bucket (highly doubt that will happen).

So when does the new journal start buddy?

Statik, I'll bet you $5K right now that you beat my yield, and if you don't double it, then you've probably messed up pretty good

But, not too worried about it (as you'll see below, all of the issues are fairly easily fixable) - will have a summary post sometime in the next couple of days (started typing and just decided to do it now, as I've been rambling pretty good), but the obvious yield-killer was the height issue.

Also think that the air flow could've been better - one 12" oscillating fan wasn't sufficient for the size of those plants, but I've got four fans getting delivered before the next run

Gonna have two 12" in the tent now, diagonallly across from each other - this should be plenty of airflow, especially because now there will actually be some distance from the lights to the plant canopy.

Also hanging my dehumidifier from the "rafters" of the tent, so it'll share the same air space as the actual plants - should be able to get my humidity way, way low with that, methinks.

Biggest Issues (in order of magnitude):

1) Height/canopy management - no need to rehash what the issues were, but this just fucking killed me - the lack of being able to rotate plants made three of them not even worth trimming because the buds were so airy, and another several where I probably only got 4-8 grams off of.

2) Poor clones - took as many clones as I could, and unfortunately a lot of them weren't really "up to snuff", in terms of stem thickness or health. Need quality clones to get a quality yield.

3) Heat during veg time - had some high temps around these parts in November when I was vegging, and with no AC in the garage, I was pretty helpless to do anything about it - that expanded node spacing certainly hurt me by forcing me to trim more lower growth, leaving smaller top colas (without the stretching they would've been "connected" and I could've gotten 10-12" colas, as opposed to 6" colas I got, IMHO).

4) Not changing my reservoir for three months - although I have no idea what magnitude this might've played in my pitiful harvest, I'd be shocked if this didn't cost me a couple of ounces (prolly more). A subset of this would be not calibrating my pH meter for a while, and being off by .5 for a few weeks, which led to some nute lockout/uptake issues.

5) Being lazy the first couple of weeks of flower and not rotating the plants - this would've helped me to greatly mitigate the height issues, as the plants that were sitting directly under the light for the first two weeks (when I didn't touch them at all) obviously grew much taller then their sisters on the outskirts.

So, those are my "Top Five", as I see it right now - if I think of anything else or the order changes for some reason, I'll come back and edit this post.

BTW, the good news about all five of them is that they're all pretty easily fixable

We'll see what I can do with this next run

BTW, was going to try to keep it a secret, but that's just not gonna work - long story short, planning on one more harvest in the 4x4 tent after all the upgrades take place (should harvest somewhere around mid July and my test is done in early June).

That leaves me about a month and a half of planning/building to get one of these setup:

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html

It's just a mathematically more efficient way to grow - only thing is, I'm gonna upsize it and put either 2 1Ks in there or 3 600s (if not 3000 watts, in which case the dimensions and plant numbers would basically mirror the Coliseum).

Was at Home Depot and Lowes today for an hour just looking at PVC parts and brainstorming.

Figure that he gets 2.1G/W, so even if I can only get 1.25G/W off of it (although I'd like to think I could do better once dialed in, but there's clearly a point of diminishing returns with adding more lights - that could be somewhat mitigated by my higher plant counts), then I'd still be pulling 5.5 pounds off of 2 1Ks.

I'd be okay with that

Rough plan is to make the diameter larger and have many more plant sites - prolly about 200, although I've been going back and forth with that in my head.

Definitely going with the flooded tube design though for its simplicity - no drip or aero or anything like that to get clogged, etc.

Enough rambling, time to do some more brainstorming.

FYI, (in theory) it'll be MUCH cheaper to set this up then it would be to buy four Magnum XXXls, four 3x3 trays, four 3x3 tray inserts, etc.