Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

[Woodstock.Hippie]

Are you seeking cookies or running away from something more universal?
IT is sort of like the rest of yin and yang around here.
Do you imbibe because you seek something good, or are you running away from something else?

To Us, spirituality is innately human.

IT would take effort to expel them all, once you are aware they are everywhere.

Spirits must reside in the realm of belief because how can you tell if they look like flying spaghetti monsters or whatever else they may dream to be?

 

[Big P]

these are the only spirits i fuck with

i told my duaghter the other day that the tooth fairy wasnt real cuz she couldnt understand where she comes from and kept asking me questions about if she is really real.

so finally i was like no she is fake its really me and mommy who put the money under the pillow lol

She was down with the truth. no one likes to be lied to specially to the point of brain washing


but she goes to like this chruch daycare where they always teach her about jesus and i tell her that some people believe in jesus but that i dont and that there is no proof there is a god lol

my mom wasnt happy about that but what am i supposed to do lie to the kid and make her have an unrealistic view of the world?

you know all those idiots who blow themselves up, or fight as insurgents

they are told and truly believe they have no control over thier own lives and that god will take them when he sees fit either way

so they use that as the excuse that they do not control thier own lives or death which makes them fearless.

and then makes them dead


but i dont want my daughter praying and begging to somthign that isnt there, i would rather have her pull herself up by her boot straps and realize you must solve your own problems

because if god does exist for some reason he aint helping us anyway so why bother with him

he wanna burn us in hell over it then hes a little bitch in my opinion



i know some very inteligetn people who cant get over this brain washing they have been through as a child,

so these inteligent people seem so stupid in that department but indoctranation can never be under estimated

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

Desperation sucks
especially for the innocents.

you know all those idiots who blow themselves up, or fight as insurgents

they are told and truly believe they have no control over thier own lives and that god will take them when he sees fit either way

so they use that as the excuse that they do not control thier own lives or death which makes them fearless.

and then makes them dead

 

[morgentaler]

Once you relieve a person of accountability they are capable of the foulest crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

edit: and more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

 

[CrackerJax]

Now ur girl will know that the little voice in her head ... is her.

Progress she will enjoy.

 

[BigTitLvr]

Scientists have always inferred the origin of the universe by reversing the observed state of the universe. At first, the universe was thought to be static. Thus, science held that the universe simply "always was." Then scientists theorized that gravity must cause the universe to shrink. Thus, science changed its mind, inventing the "Big Bang" Theory. It wasn't until 1998 that astronomers discovered that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. Reversing an accelerating expansion to see back in time produces a universe that shrinks at a decelerating rate as one goes back in time to its origin. Follow this process to its ultimate and the rate of shrinkage reduces to converge with timespace where both are zero. That is, both shrinkage and timespace stop at timespace=0. Thus, timespace has a beginning.

From timespace=0, scientists hold that nothing in the universe magically "popped in" with no cause. It is a fundamental law of physics that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo; i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace. In contrast to endless opinionating of innumerable pseudo-scientific religionists, science recognizes the necessity of a Prime Cause ex nihilo

No eminent scientist represents that our perfectly-orderly universe can be explained ex nihilo without a Prime Cause. Being logically consistent (orderly), the universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Perfectly Orderly; i.e. Perfect. Therefore, no intelligent person can ignore that our purpose and challenge in life is learning how we, as imperfect humans, may successfully relate to a Perfect Singularity-Creator without our co-mingling, which transcends the timespace of this dimensional physical universe, becoming an imperfection to the Perfect Singularity-Creator

An orderly Creator necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source: www.netzarim.co.il)

Religions that contradict Torah, therefore, are the antithesis of the Creator.

What you have presented here is called anecdotal evidence. It is a thought experiment, that is all. Nothing in these paragraphs is at all "Proof". Real proof comes from reproducible experiments.

I want you, and any believers, to think about this next statement very closely: If ANY one religion had ANY one bit of proof that their god exists and did ANY of the things they say he did - there would be only ONE religion on the planet.

Religion is called 'faith' precisely because none can offer any real proof of anything. Accepting that honestly will actually strengthen your faith for you will see what it really is. It will also aid in your tolerance of other people religions. It will also prevent you from posting these absurd threads about 'proof' of your god.

 

[CrackerJax]

Is there evidence for this? I wouldn't say war, since hunter-gatherer tribes were too small to be considered armies, but I would consider that some would attack other tribes and steal their freshly killed prey.
I do know that the ice age forced many groups to move south toward the sea and adapt by learning to fish. South Africa has some really nice finds in caves there.

From what I have read so far, which is quite a bit, scientists cannot find signs of warfare past the beginning of actual farming.

They believe that land ownership was unheard of or not enforced before ppl set down roots.

That first fence must have been a doosey....

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

"From what I have read so far, which is quite a bit, scientists cannot find signs of warfare past the beginning of actual farming"

If you don't mind my picking your brain, what were some of the earliest signs?

"I want you, and any believers, to think about this next statement very closely: If ANY one religion had ANY one bit of proof that their god exists and did ANY of the things they say he did - there would be only ONE religion on the planet."

Hallelujah!

That don't mean we can't make up shit to fill our knowledge gaps in the mean time.

I can imagine what dinosaurs smelled like.

IT helps to walk confidently knowing your stones are gonna fall in place just when they need to.

 

[morgentaler]

From what I have read so far, which is quite a bit, scientists cannot find signs of warfare past the beginning of actual farming.

They believe that land ownership was unheard of or not enforced before ppl set down roots.

That first fence must have been a doosey....

For clarity, before people start calling you bad names, when you use the term warfare you refer to organized, ongoing conflict, correct?

And not to skirmishes over opportunistic kills, etc. between family groups.


One of my friends is native and takes anthropology and aboriginal history courses, and he was telling me that in some cultures there is no concept for rape. Without the puritanism and sexual repression that creates that kind of person its practically unheard of.

An interesting idea.

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes, absolutely. No organized warfare. So far they can't find skeletal remains that indicate war wounds.
After the agricultural phase of our histrory, the fossil remains are rife with evidence. Like out of nowhere....

vegetables are killing us all!

 

[Big P]

i could see myself killing sombody for a ham bone if i was hungry

 

[CrackerJax]

Picture a fertile and abundant river delta plain.

Hunter gatherer mode - a dozen tribes spread out and passing through with plenty to forage.

Ag mode - 1 tribe claims the delta and protects it from the rest.

The first war begins.

The American indians are a fair modern example. They sold us Manhattan because they had no concept of land ownership. They were hunter gatherers and followed the game. they didn't sit on land, and they never thought they "owned" it.

 

[WelcomeToTheWest]

Hi!

This was weird, but I was looking up Christopher Hitchen's videos on Google and this forum came up. I read what the original poster had said on “Prime Cause ex nihilo “ and contest that scientists need it in order to sustain that a “perfectly ordered universe.” I would never use the word “perfect” for anything tangible. It usually leads to fallacy.
Space is anything but perfect. Just ask Neil:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nqySMvkcw

Listen to an astrophysicist's perspective – space has no order. Why is it not applicable that there is a “chance” that our sun and planets were formed through the nebular hypothesis ? A perfect creator designed a perfect universe? There is nothing perfect about it. Look to our Jovian planets – Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Saturn. Why aren't these planets burning hydrogen like our sun does? Why create failed solar systems? Why kill 90% of the life that has lived on this planet?

Where is a creator's omnipotence? The only conclusion that I can find in this is that if there is a “creator” then he isn't omnipotent, but rather a tinkerer. One who does not know what it's doing. That or God is a sadist. What's the point of giving a child bone marrow cancer? If that's a part of God's plan, then he must be a sadist. Either way, why would anyone want to be a part of this system.......

 

[WelcomeToTheWest]

On that note I also want to say believing in a creator is a lot like living in a totalitarian state. If you don't believe in the father, you will be burned in a lake of fire. You follow what the father says. If you don't you will be tossed into the lake. Where is the freedom? We need to drop this idea we made up over 3,000 years ago and get with the times.

 

[PadawanBater]

On that note I also want to say believing in a creator is a lot like living in a totalitarian state. If you don't believe in the father, you will be burned in a lake of fire. You follow what the father says. If you don't you will be tossed into the lake. Where is the freedom? We need to drop this idea we made up over 3,000 years ago and get with the times.

Yep, I agree. Welcome to the forum WTTW. Do you smoke weed or did you just come along for the spirituality stuff on RIU?

 

[morgentaler]

Cool. Maybe Hitchens will google himself, come here, and join the party.
That would be awesome.

Stephen Fry, Richard Dawkins, if you're googling, come on in!

 

[morgentaler]

HA! I just heard a funny anecdote from my father that would make Stephen King's 'IT' have a high potential for existence if we were going by personal anecdotal evidence alone.
He had just seen the miniseries and was working in a lift station underground, and a helium balloon on a string came out of one of the pipes and bumped up against the screen beside him. He thought that was rather creepy.

Proof of IT? You decide!

 

[PadawanBater]

Cool. Maybe Hitchens will google himself, come here, and join the party.
That would be awesome.

Stephen Fry, Richard Dawkins, if you're googling, come on in!

lol wouldn't that be some shit!

Do you think those guys toke up? (I know Sagan did!)

 

[WelcomeToTheWest]

I've posted an introduction of myself. No, I do not smoke weed, but I am very supportive of the legalization.

This should probably belong on another thread, but I will briefly address it here. I'm from Chicago, IL - a city that use to be one of the most corrupt cities in the U.S. during the 1920's and 1930's. I'm sure as you know we had an Italian gentleman by the name of Al Capone who ran the trafficking of alcohol to the U.S. from Canada.

Since we have evidence that drinking alcohol is more dangerous then smoking marijuana (read reports by National Academy of Sciences, British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependence, etc.)Then why aren't we legalizing? Don't get me wrong, anything you put in your body will have a trade off. Multiple case studies however give the same congruent information, in that marijuana can't even be put into the same classes as Methamphetamine, Coke, PCP, Etc. and keeping it illegal will make the drug trades with Mexico worse. I can jump into many of these topics but again, it digresses from this thread.

 

[WelcomeToTheWest]

lol wouldn't that be some shit!

Do you think those guys toke up? (I know Sagan did!)

I don't think Dawkins or Hitchens ever did. their intellect doesn't reflect that of Jeff Spicoli. I can see Hitchens being an alcoholic. Fry I can see smoking.