"The larger the gun, the more menacing the situation,"

[Big P]

I'm glad, but statistically your house should be down 40%. There are pockets of resistance depending on your locale. Now, I said the real esate market is finished as a "retirement vehicle". One of the reasons is the govt. keeps insisting on messing with the markets...whicjh will give us waves of what just happened. This isn't over,....it's just beginning. Again, try not to think of the house as the retirement vehicle as opposed to the equity which is the real investment. If the equity looks like it's going to be in for a big drop....pull it the heck out of that home shell at a low rate of interest and get it where it can grow at a higher rate. even if you only get a tie....you'll be well positioned when the uninformed and flippers are shaken out. There is only one glaring problem. The places that are growing....is shrinking quickly. It will take even better analysis to miss the hazards of the financial golf course.

well im only 30 or so, I figured I could wait it out if I had to and just live in this house for a long time.

you think im still risking a lot? I got all my eggs in this basket

 

[PVS]

Ok I think we all know why citizens show up to these meetings with guns. they do it to show they are ready to fight for what they believe in, its a veiled threat, sure, but they have the right to do it. Every political event i have ever been to, there are Secret Service, Local police, US marshals, Sheriffs, etc etc etc. and everyone of them is packing heat and will use it if they need to. The people bringing assault rifles are just showing them that Joe six pack is capable of that too, and that if the politicians do not want to listen to us, then they will have revolution.

it will lead to the passing of laws which will chip away our freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, and freedom to own firearms. civil war is not a right, its giving the government the right to defend itself. imagine our past policy in iraq, but in america.




quick question: where was this outrage when protesters were being imprisoned by the hundreds just for being at the RNC '04 protests?

http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-08-24/news/guantanamo-on-the-hudson/1

 

[Big P]

it will lead to the passing of laws which will chip away our freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, and freedom to own firearms. civil war is not a right, its giving the government the right to defend itself. imagine our past policy in iraq, but in america.




quick question: where was this outrage when protesters were being imprisoned by the hundreds just for being at the RNC '04 protests?

http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-08-24/news/guantanamo-on-the-hudson/1

dude they were arested for breaking laws my friend. Nothing outragious about that. you do know that the police are both democrat and republican

 

[CrackerJax]

well im only 30 or so, I figured I could wait it out if I had to and just live in this house for a long time.

you think im still risking a lot? I got all my eggs in this basket

Just pay very close attention on your investment. If you don't know how much equity you have (how much you can borrow form it) then call your mortgage banker and find out. Few things repeat exactly but trends do.

The real estate trouble is far from over. There are still a ton of bad convertible loans out there on timers. These bad loans (thank you Congress) will keep washing over the RE markets polluting it.

There are so many other things working against us right now (on purpose it seems) it's hard to keep track.

keep a sharp eye out.

 

[NoDrama]

it will lead to the passing of laws which will chip away our freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, and freedom to own firearms. civil war is not a right, its giving the government the right to defend itself. imagine our past policy in iraq, but in america.




quick question: where was this outrage when protesters were being imprisoned by the hundreds just for being at the RNC '04 protests?

http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-08-24/news/guantanamo-on-the-hudson/1

I hear you brutha, I really do. It could very well lead to new laws being pushed through that impede our rights.

You can't give the government the right to defend itself, the government is not a person, it has NO RIGHTS, it only has opposing force.

 

[PVS]

You can't give the government the right to defend itself, the government is not a person, it has NO RIGHTS, it only has opposing force.

the government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. therefore an attack on it is an attack on the people, our sovereignty, and our constitution which every member of government is sworn to defend. like it or not, our leaders are democratically elected which means that the majority puts them there.

you're going to have to accept the fact that you are not the majority, and the majority will not support threats of civil war, nor civil war itself barring something far FAR more fucked up than "he might take our guns someday".

 

[CrackerJax]

Obama has a majority in Congress (this is almost guaranteed to evaporate as his own party is eve starting to buck)....not the public. If you want to live by majority rules....you better get some guns right quick.

It's supposed to be a Republic BASED on democracy, not the other way round....

 

[PVS]

i have not seen any signs that we would have another 'rubber stamp' house/congress majority like bush did,
forcing the majority into a constant state of submission with looming threats of mushroom clouds and smallpox.

progressives have been a thorn in obama's side in fact over health care reform. so no, that whole
"we have to support the president in whatever he does" lemming mentallity is not prevalent. really thats
the only time i ever feared my government: when the majority said "protect us, we don't care how".
i think as long as that never resurfaces you can leave your assault rifle in the closet.

 

[NoDrama]

I keep My assault rifle under the baby's crib!

 

[CrackerJax]

i have not seen any signs that we would have another 'rubber stamp' house/congress majority like bush did,
forcing the majority into a constant state of submission with looming threats of mushroom clouds and smallpox.

progressives have been a thorn in obama's side in fact over health care reform. so no, that whole
"we have to support the president in whatever he does" lemming mentallity is not prevalent. really thats
the only time i ever feared my government: when the majority said "protect us, we don't care how".
i think as long as that never resurfaces you can leave your assault rifle in the closet.

wow, talk about drinking the kool aid....

Who do you think WROTE all that spending since Feb.? I love political nicknames.....progressives... more like regressives.

If Bush had one flaw, it was letting Congress pass all that spending while he concentrated on Iraq and Afghanistan. He should have done both, but Bush was not a fiscal conservative. That is exactly what we need now.....exactly what we do not have.

You can't print money out of thin air...this will all come back on us....mark my words. It's coming to a close.

 

[PVS]

wow, talk about drinking the kool aid....

Who do you think WROTE all that spending since Feb.? I love political nicknames.....progressives... more like regressives.

If Bush had one flaw, it was letting Congress pass all that spending while he concentrated on Iraq and Afghanistan. He should have done both, but Bush was not a fiscal conservative. That is exactly what we need now.....exactly what we do not have.

You can't print money out of thin air...this will all come back on us....mark my words. It's coming to a close.

ok but just realize you're simultaneously expressing support for one president who compromised our constitutional rights, and damning another because you think he's going to. that to me is "drinking the koolaid" as the term is overused for dramatic effect.

 

[CrackerJax]

ok but just realize you're simultaneously expressing support for one president who compromised our constitutional rights, and damning another because you think he's going to. that to me is "drinking the koolaid" as the term is overused.

Going to? Has is more like it. I never felt threatened by the Patriot act because I don't conspire against my country. You have to do something after an attack like 9/11. You can't wish your enemies away with strong words. It takes action and in the beginning, remember, everybody was feeling their way through this new dark tunnel of terrorism. Were mistakes made? Sure....but you DON'T throw the baby out with the bathwater.....you fine tune it and keep the pressure up so we don't get attacked again.



I agree about the kool aid comment overused and actually one the few times I have ever used it.

 

[medicineman]

The definition of the merging of corporate power with govt. is Fascism. We are doing that right now. The creep has begun towards failure.

First, it is not Obama that is starting us down that road, it started with the right and the money boys. We, The USA, have been a plutochracy for some time now, in fact, basically we always have been.
Blame him for being more socialistic than you like, but the trend of merging government and corporate wealth has been and is the brainchild of the corporatists, the right. Fascism is more like when the government takes over the corporations, as it stands today, the corporations rule the USA. So a little pull back by Obama is a good thing. Corporations have no business in government and visa-versa, With the exception of government controls to protect the people from corporate vampires. Banks and Wall Street are the deciders, presidents are mere puppets. I'm very sad to see Obama sell out so easily, I thought he might at least put up a pretext of really trying for the public option. Below find a brief description of plutochracy:

The second usage of plutocracy is a pejorative reference to a disproportionate influence the wealthy are said to have on political process in contemporary society: for example Kevin Phillips, author and political strategist to U.S. President Richard Nixon, argues that the United States is a plutocracy in which there is a "fusion of money and government."[1].
Positive influence includes campaign contributions; negative influence includes refusing to support the government financially by refusing to pay taxes, threatening to move profitable industries elsewhere, bribes, and so on. It can also be exerted by the owners and ad buyers of media properties which can shape public perception of political issues. Recent examples include Rupert Murdoch's News Corp's alleged political agendas in Australia, the UK[2] and the United States or the oil industry oligarchy, and billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife, which may back right-leaning political action committees (PACs), as well as billionaire George Soros' efforts to influence US politics by backing left-leaning PACs.

 

[CrackerJax]

Okay.... This just in and it's a big surprise. (not really)

Med Man is all for fascism in the USA. Wonderful......

 

[NoDrama]

First, it is not Obama that is starting us down that road, it started with the right and the money boys. We, The USA, have been a plutochracy for some time now, in fact, basically we always have been.
Blame him for being more socialistic than you like, but the trend of merging government and corporate wealth has been and is the brainchild of the corporatists, the right. Fascism is more like when the government takes over the corporations, as it stands today, the corporations rule the USA. So a little pull back by Obama is a good thing. Corporations have no business in government and visa-versa, With the exception of government controls to protect the people from corporate vampires. Banks and Wall Street are the deciders, presidents are mere puppets. I'm very sad to see Obama sell out so easily, I thought he might at least put up a pretext of really trying for the public option. Below find a brief description of plutochracy:

So anyone with money is on the right? Or just the big money? Cuz it sounds to me like you have them all rolled up into 1. There are probably just as many democrats/liberals with just as much money as the republicans/conservatives. Now if what you really meant was the "Money Trust" then yeah I agree.

Fascism is private ownership and government control, exactly what GM and Chrysler are.

Since the government has to borrow every single penny it spends on everything but the debt service it of course means the government has to get their money from the people who have it, the corporations, IE the Federal Reserve/banks or from other countries who will buy our bonds. The government cannot print money at will, in fact they can't print any of it, only the corporation known as the "Fed" can print money. So of course they are going to be beholden to their "Golden geese" like JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and BofA.

With the exception of government controls to protect the vampire corporations from the citizen is the more appropriate sentence there I think. For sure Obama is a Puppet, I can agree there. Most presidents i think are puppets, and most that weren't got assassinated. Ours is taking bribes from the Money Trust to do its bidding in the markets so that the trust can garner huge profits and give their CEO's multi million dollar bonuses while the average man has to sleep on the curb.

Things do not just happen, they are made to happen-JFK

 

[PVS]

Going to? Has is more like it. I never felt threatened by the Patriot act because I don't conspire against my country.

"if you've done no wrong, you have nothing to hide", the public banner of any well marketed police-state.

You have to do something after an attack like 9/11.

protestors and activists groups were placed on the terror watch list.

bush gave the executive branch unchecked authority to take away your rights if it saw fit, send you to a foreign prison, and torture you. you: an american citizen. him: the man who swore to uphold the constitution. i mean, you're paranoid about conspiracy but you still support the act of a president putting more asterisks next to every one of your freedoms.

*conditions may apply. not valid if you are a liberal pussy...

not only that but he in turn gave obama this unconditional "right"

and you think he did super. well thats just super.

 

[CrackerJax]

Sorry, but I give the Bush ppl a pass on 9/11 counter measures. Doing the maximum to protect the citizens is AOK by me. Like I said, this was all ad hoc in the beginning.

Stop the attacks and send out the message that if you are operating inside the USA or abroad...we will find you.


I wonder if Al Queda will attack Fascists? Obama may be onto something.

 

[PVS]

Doing the maximum to protect the citizens is AOK by me.

well i guess i have to drop an overused term:

those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

[CrackerJax]

Obama has full power to void the Patriot act..... so .....what's the problem?

By the way, I lost no liberties at all.

 

[PVS]

Obama has full power to void the Patriot act..... so .....what's the problem?

By the way, I lost no liberties at all.

i don't trust a politician with that kind of power, thats the problem.

you supported the handing of all that unchecked power to the executive branch. not just bush.

our most basic right of habeas corpus was even rendered conditional with the military commissions act of 2006. you are showing a very blatant double standard here, and under the assumption that everyone who doesn't hate obama, trusts obama unconditionally like you trusted bush.