The effects to the common man.

[ViRedd]

We let people make as much money as they want,

As long as the rights of another are not violated in the process, the amount of money a person makes is nothing more than a score board reflection of one's service.

I know this is a hard concept for a liberal/socialist/fascist/communist to grasp, but it has created the most effective success/freedom/liberty machine ever known to mankind.

Vi

 

[jrh72582]

As long as the rights of another are not violated in the process, the amount of money a person makes is nothing mire than a score board reflection of one's service.

I know this is a hard concept for a liberal/socialist/fascist/communist to grasp, but it has created the most effective success/freedom/liberty machine ever know to mankind.

Vi

But the pharmaceutical and insurance companies do violate the rights of others. By monopolizing and price gouging, our rights are violated. Would you like me to present the direct causality showing this violation or do you get it?

 

[purplekitty7772008]

Laugh away. Apparently the entertainment is reciprocated. I get a good laugh every time I hear you bitch about your free rent and every time you show off your body in a sick attempt to get attention from online personalities. So it's a give and take.

And can you define 'damn illegals'? Aren't we all 'damn illegals'? Explain the term and who fits under the umbrage. I think you will be surprised.

Haha. Shows how much you know. Last time I checked I was paying rent for the last few months....

and last time I checked I wasn't the only one posting pictures of myself
on that thread.

I get plenty of unwanted attention whether or not I post pictures
of myself.

So it seems your only defense is to TRY and insult me by saying those
untrue things.

If you actually did read my most recent threads, you will see that I
stated I was paying rent and buying my own groceries, I just bought

my own car and I pay for my own insurance. Are you really trying to
imply I'm not responsible?

Learn to read jhr. You just sound stupid saying what you just said.

Illegals: immigrants who come to America illegally without going
thru the naturalization process and those who work under the table
without paying taxes to help the country for the better.

My mother-in-laws husband was illegal. But I have respect for him. why?
Because he came here not wanting a gov't handout, he went to

school and became a chef, pays for HIS and his family's health insurance,
and puts food on the table without the governments help.

And he went through the naturalization process and is now a a citizen.

The illegals I don't like are the ones who come here and get pregnant
to get handouts and free health care, and use their anchor babies
as excuses to stay here in the US without going thru the naturalization

processs.

I've just defined illegal.
There.

 

[TreesOfLife]

But the pharmaceutical and insurance companies do violate the rights of others. By monopolizing and price gouging, our rights are violated. Would you like me to present the direct causality showing this violation or do you get it?

Who do you think FUNDS THE ACTORS(politicians)...

 

[what... huh?]

But the pharmaceutical and insurance companies do violate the rights of others. By monopolizing and price gouging, our rights are violated. Would you like me to present the direct causality showing this violation or do you get it?

Does it not cause you any alarm or pause that the insurance giants and pharms are on board with the administrations plan?

 

[TreesOfLife]

Who do you think FUNDS THE ACTORS(politicians)...

Does it not cause you any alarm or pause that the insurance giants and pharms are on board with the administrations plan?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Take note JRH...

 

[Operation 420]

JRH, you are a mental coward. You make vague statements and spin them to your favor. You never bring facts, just the "philosophy" that you cower behind as an excuse for saying outlandish things. Whenever someone challenges you, I find it odd that you suddenly disappear until the thread has jumped a few posts. You insult and look down on people to no end.

You are just a Socialist coward and people are starting to see this.

All seeing eye, right professor?

 

[what... huh?]

I am not going to call him a coward. He is in a dozen threads, swinging with little help against great opposition. He is carrying most arguments on his own on a multitude of subjects.

Republicans hate him.
Disestablishmentarianists hate him.

There seem to be very few actual liberals here (which surprises me).

I give him credit. I don't think he is winning... but he is holding his own. It is hard to keep track of who is actually insulting you and who is just piling on. Sometimes a stray arrow claims some collateral damage... but he is stretched pretty thin. I give him time to get back to things. Lighten up.


Besides... if he gave up... we would have to get back to 9/11... and I am enjoying the break.

 

[CrackerJax]

They don't have a declining population because of HEALTH CARE!!!! Are you kidding me? Take Italy, for example. They used to have negative growth, but the elderly were living for a very long time. Why the negative growth? Because most Italians don't have kids. If they do, they only have one. That's why Europe has a declining population. Not because the old are dying too fast to be replaced by the young. It's because they've moved away from a child-focused society. Most Europeans don't want kids. How is health care to blame? Especially seeing as how the EU has GREAT benefits for pregnant mothers and to-be fathers.

In part yes, coupled with socialism which leads to a general malaise. When you take away the incentives to get up in the morning, a surprising percentage just won't. When you measure a life's worth with a point system, you devalue it. When you limit a persons income (through heavy taxation) and therefore spendable income, coupled with the cost of raising a child with limited funds...many ppl in Europe have stopped reproducing. You can look it up if you like.

America has the finest QUALITY health care in the world. There is NO WAY the govt. is going to IMPROVE it.

So why do it? The uninsured? Many CHOOSE not to be insured. The remainder will ALWAYS receive care by LAW. Just because you don't carry insurance in this country, doesn't mean you don't get treated........!!!!!

 

[purplekitty7772008]

JRH, you are a mental coward. You make vague statements and spin them to your favor. You never bring facts, just the "philosophy" that you cower behind as an excuse for saying outlandish things. Whenever someone challenges you, I find it odd that you suddenly disappear until the thread has jumped a few posts. You insult and look down on people to no end.

You are just a Socialist coward and people are starting to see this.

All seeing eye, right professor?

Yeah, I noticed that too. ^^

 

[ViRedd]

But the pharmaceutical and insurance companies do violate the rights of others. By monopolizing and price gouging, our rights are violated. Would you like me to present the direct causality showing this violation or do you get it?[/QUOTE]

Sure, but when you make your presentation, be sure to include the cost of research and development of each successful new life saving drug that is placed on the market. Also, in your presentation, include the time frame delays caused by the FDA ... and the lives lost due to that time frame.

And by the way, you've asked me not to be condescending toward you in my posts, which I've complied with. Now you return the favor, OK?

Vi

 

[RetiredToker76]

85% of those who HAVE health care. What about the other 50-80 million?

The other 50 - 80 million have made their choice. They can get off their a$$ go to college, get a degree, and work for a living. The could also return to their home country that they left in favor of getting our free hand outs. Or they could utilize the existing system as it is. If they're not in favor of these options then they have the right to die from their own choices.

As far as those who are handicapped or truely disabled. They can (and have) successfully utilized the system. I have a close friend who was born with no arms As a result he was given up to the state as a newborn by his parents. He has no family and the state run foster system put him in a series of abusive homes where he barely survived until he was kicked out on his 18th birthday.

With no arms and no money he worked his a$$ off and got a college education. For 12 years he couldn't get a job to pay his student loans because 99% of the jobs out there list 'ability to lift 50lbs' as a job requirement. My wife has an office job and that's a 'requirement' for her job and she hasn't lifted ANYTHING. During those 12 years he just barely survived by providing tutoring to high school and college students. He was self employed, paying 'small business taxes' as well as income taxes on a whole whopping $9,000 gross income while living in a 1 bedroom apartment in the worse part of town. During that time Medicaid and Disability provided him with 2 $300,000 prosthetic arms. He got his arms, learned how to use them over the course of a year and finally got a real paying salary job 12 years after he completed college. At the time it took almost 3 years to develope the custom arms he needed. From age 23 - 35 he was for all practical purposes unemployed. He now has a full time job and house that's just about the right size for him. He's uninterested in marriage or kids so it's small for my taste, but it works well for him. I asked him how he felt about socialized health care. He thinks it's the worse idea on earth. Under the existing models of government care he would not have gotten the arms that allowed him to get a job, ever. He is somebody I truly consider handi-capable.

Government HAS to intervene. Our system is predatory and corrupt.

Are you saying that our government ISN'T predatory and corrupt? The same government that has deemed that Marijuana is a class 1 narcotic that has no medical value what so ever and imprisons those who don't feel like getting hooked on morphine? The government that sent millions of our children to die over a family vendetta? The government that is controlled by lobbyists and money men? The government that forced lending institutions to give mortgages to people they KNEW couldn't afford them? The government that refused medical care to veterans exposed to nerve gas in Vietnam, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq?

You want to see government run health care watch 'Born On the Fourth Of July.' Sure it's only 'based' on a true story, but my dad was in a VA hospital not all that dissimilar to the one fictionalized in that movie after he finished his FEDERALLY REQUIRED tour of Vietnam. He had 3 ailments, foot rot (think athletes foot that literally eats the flesh and muscle off your bones,) post traumatic stress disorder (something having to do with being ordered to blow up an entire town that was inhabited by 3 men, and about 90 women and children who had no weapons,) and finally exposure to at least 2 possibly three kinds of nerve gas. The hospital in that film was SO accurate that my dad ended up having a PTSD attack, which government provided health care didn't fully resolve. So if our government won't care for the people who were FORCED to go over seas and kill women and children for a fictional 'scenario' (really oil and money if you research it enough,) what on earth makes you think that they will take care of those of us it didn't intentionally put in the paths of bullets.

Yup I REALLY have a great deal of faith in my government. I'm outright appaled at anyone who supports our government, hope, change, status quo or whatever I will not EVER support our government willingly. My country, sure. My government NEVER!

For the record I'm neither Dem nor Rep or any other 'organized' party. I'm also not conservative or liberal, I'm an anarcho-individualist. I take care of myself and then others if time, knowledge and resources permit.

-RT76

 

[purplekitty7772008]

The other 50 - 80 million have made their choice. They can get off their a$$ go to college, get a degree, and work for a living. The could also return to their home country that they left in favor of getting our free hand outs. Or they could utilize the existing system as it is. If they're not in favor of these options then they have the right to die from their own choices.

As far as those who are handicapped or truely disabled. They can (and have) successfully utilized the system. I have a close friend who was born with no arms As a result he was given up to the state as a newborn by his parents. He has no family and the state run foster system put him in a series of abusive homes where he barely survived until he was kicked out on his 18th birthday.

With no arms and no money he worked his a$$ off and got a college education. For 12 years he couldn't get a job to pay his student loans because 99% of the jobs out there list 'ability to lift 50lbs' as a job requirement. My wife has an office job and that's a 'requirement' for her job and she hasn't lifted ANYTHING. During those 12 years he just barely survived by providing tutoring to high school and college students. He was self employed, paying 'small business taxes' as well as income taxes on a whole whopping $9,000 gross income while living in a 1 bedroom apartment in the worse part of town. During that time Medicaid and Disability provided him with 2 $300,000 prosthetic arms. He got his arms, learned how to use them over the course of a year and finally got a real paying salary job 12 years after he completed college. At the time it took almost 3 years to develope the custom arms he needed. From age 23 - 35 he was for all practical purposes unemployed. He now has a full time job and house that's just about the right size for him. He's uninterested in marriage or kids so it's small for my taste, but it works well for him. I asked him how he felt about socialized health care. He thinks it's the worse idea on earth. Under the existing models of government care he would not have gotten the arms that allowed him to get a job, ever. He is somebody I truly consider handi-capable.



Are you saying that our government ISN'T predatory and corrupt? The same government that has deemed that Marijuana is a class 1 narcotic that has no medical value what so ever and imprisons those who don't feel like getting hooked on morphine? The government that sent millions of our children to die over a family vendetta? The government that is controlled by lobbyists and money men? The government that forced lending institutions to give mortgages to people they KNEW couldn't afford them? The government that refused medical care to veterans exposed to nerve gas in Vietnam, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq?

You want to see government run health care watch 'Born On the Fourth Of July.' Sure it's only 'based' on a true story, but my dad was in a VA hospital not all that dissimilar to the one fictionalized in that movie after he finished his FEDERALLY REQUIRED tour of Vietnam. He had 3 ailments, foot rot (think athletes foot that literally eats the flesh and muscle off your bones,) post traumatic stress disorder (something having to do with being ordered to blow up an entire town that was inhabited by 3 men, and about 90 women and children who had no weapons,) and finally exposure to at least 2 possibly three kinds of nerve gas. The hospital in that film was SO accurate that my dad ended up having a PTSD attack, which government provided health care didn't fully resolve. So if our government won't care for the people who were FORCED to go over seas and kill women and children for a fictional 'scenario' (really oil and money if you research it enough,) what on earth makes you think that they will take care of those of us it didn't intentionally put in the paths of bullets.

Yup I REALLY have a great deal of faith in my government. I'm outright appaled at anyone who supports our government, hope, change, status quo or whatever I will not EVER support our government willingly. My country, sure. My government NEVER!

For the record I'm neither Dem nor Rep or any other 'organized' party. I'm also not conservative or liberal, I'm an anarcho-individualist. I take care of myself and then others if time, knowledge and resources permit.

-RT76

Yeah, thats what I said. But jhr or whatever it is insists that the government take care of us as if we are uncapable of taking

care of ourselves.

Anyone can get off their ass and get some education to do better.
Hell, like I said, if my HOMELESS ex could get up and start college,

anyone is capable. It just takes some encouragement and the will
to do better. If all these people with out healthcare would quit

their bitching and complaining, and do something to better themselves,
we wouldn't be in this situation. People are too damn lazy to take

care of themselves, so they expect the government to do it for
them. Thanks, but no thanks. I want to take care of myself,

and don't want to be forced to accept gov't health care.
I bet we will become an even unhealthier country if this

bill passes.


I'm neither a democrat or a republican...

I'm an independent. And I'd rather not even be labeled that.
I'm me, and I think for myself. But jhr wants the gov't to think

for us as though we are uncapable of thinking for ourselves.

Its time for a revolution.

 

[jrh72582]

Yeah, thats what I said. But jhr or whatever it is insists that the government take care of us as if we are uncapable of taking

care of ourselves.

Anyone can get off their ass and get some education to do better.
Hell, like I said, if my HOMELESS ex could get up and start college,

anyone is capable. It just takes some encouragement and the will
to do better. If all these people with out healthcare would quit

their bitching and complaining, and do something to better themselves,
we wouldn't be in this situation. People are too damn lazy to take

care of themselves, so they expect the government to do it for
them. Thanks, but no thanks. I want to take care of myself,

and don't want to be forced to accept gov't health care.
I bet we will become an even unhealthier country if this

bill passes.


I'm neither a democrat or a republican...

I'm an independent. And I'd rather not even be labeled that.
I'm me, and I think for myself. But jhr wants the gov't to think

for us as though we are uncapable of thinking for ourselves.

Its time for a revolution.

Funny, I don't remember saying that. So continue to straw man.

 

[ilkhan]

Again, why is cosmedic surgery not really going up?
Are cosmedic doctors not greedy?

 

[purplekitty7772008]

Funny, I don't remember saying that. So continue to straw man.

No, not those exact words. But thats what the bill says.
That we will have a committee to decide what care

we receive, and that we have no say in the matter what-so-ever.

Which is turn, is basically saying "You Americans are too stupid
to decide whats best for your health, so we will decide for you".

Obviously, its the government thinking for us. And you support
the bill, so you're saying the same thing they are.

 

[jeff f]

Everybody can't be an American... regardless of compassion. We cannot sustain ourselves AND Mexico.

thats why we have to be vigilant in helping to free dictatorship. free people wont migrate to the US because they will have freedom in their own country. prosperity depends on free people using their brains and producing products consumers want. and then using their profits as they see fit for their family. its a win win situation. obama obviuosly believes that these motivated free market people all want to steal from poor peole, mostly inner city blacks. so he wants to give them their "due". so he steals from the producing sector and hands out to the lazy bastards. dont misunderstand, i am not talking about someone who has obviously been dealt a shitty hand. most people have no problem helping those who need it. i am talking about the bums who dont want to work, who want to sue everbody to get a settlemnt so never having to work again and get paid for it. the worlds is upside down right now. hopefully get back on course soon. in the past when this has happened a major event such as war, natural disaster, etc. has gotten us back on track

 

[CrackerJax]

I'm high.... bzzzz

 

[hanimmal]

They better know all the details before they pass a Bill, and any bill for that matter. What the Fuck is wrong with people voting on bills no one has even read. They sneak so much pork into these bills it Pisses me off!

Watch one of those videos that trees posted. Boehner and the other republicans pisses and moans about not having time to read the bill for about an hour. Then Boehner goes through and uses small lines throughout the entire bill that are completely out of context that emphasize his fear mongering. How could he have done this if he hadn't had time to read through the bill?

It is not like these bills are not voted on and discussed in length and what gets put into them has already been decided on before it gets rewritten allowing them to get voted for. To think that people are able to change these things without the rest of the congress knowing exactly what is in the changes well before then is ignorant.

I will soon get 'free' health care because the government will raise my taxes to provide it for me. This 'free' health care won't cover a procedure I'm required to have annually because I'm not 'qualified' (over 40.) So in 'conjunction' with my future 'free' health care I will also have to carry private health insurance (which I already carry for $245 a month.) I just got notified from my insurance company that I will have to re-evaluate my insurance needs when the new laws pass because their costs will go so high that my current insurance cost will increase 300%. So the federal government is taking my money (without my permission) to provide me with health care that won't take care of me and fixing prices for private health care so high that I will not be able to afford it. I will be dead in 9 years. Six months ago, my insurance covered my procedures and I had an 'average' life expectancy.

1. As the bill is not passed yet the insurance company you have must be trying to scam you.
2. If you have insurance (according to the bill in the senate) you won't have to change or pay a cent to the new insurance program. So you can relax there.
3. If the insurance that you have now is rationing your care you should change it. The government insurance program doesn't ration specific treatments if you and your doctor say that you need it. Now it most likely won't pay for things like viagra, but the government had to take that away a few years ago since there was a fiasco over released child rapist getting viagra through medicare/aid so they took it away.

I reviewed my credit cards today as I do ever month. After many years of on time payments all of my interest rates have doubled because the government has ruled that credit companies can no longer charge people for violation of their contractual agreements. So they have decided that before the law goes into effect they'll mile ALL their customers for all their worth.

Credit card companies started to do this back in '08 to good creditors. It is sick. We basically have had to finance their stupid decisions over the last 4 years. And further more they have been doing his to people that ride the limits on cards for the last 10 years. Charging 30% interest rates and $39 bucks a pop for overlimit fees and late fees everytime. Even when it is the high interest rate that got dumped on that took it over the limit. The cc companies are some sick folks.

These two issues are the talk of my average neighborhood. I can't buy an American car because I'm unwilling to pay interest on a vehicle that is produced almost in whole by the federal government on my tax dollar. So to buy another 'average' car I have to take a loan at roughly a 15 - 20% interest rate to pay for a car that my taxes have built.

15%-20%? Damn man, go to your nearest credit union they can hook you up with a car loan for about 7-8%. It will save you a ton of money, and you can get a much better 'cash' deal at the dealership.

My property insurance has increased over 30% in one year to offset the costs of supporting people other than me. I pay $9,000 a year to educate children that are not mine, and $3000 a year to pay for 'storm water runoff' fees that I do not contribute to because of my 'green' behavior. (Rain Barrels and runoff to well setup that cost.... $2000.)

At the current rate my taxation will be slightly more than 52% of my income and my bills will be almost 75% of my income due to the hikes caused by government control. I HAD been one of the few living within my means.

Taxes blow when we have to pay them. I hate seeing all the money leaving my household too. But something that I think of is that when I was going through school I was able to benefit from a system that I was not paying for (school), and now I am helping pay for the next childrens education. That education that I had recieved has helped me to greatly increase the money that I can make. It helped set me up for the future where I could take care of my portion of the system.

The workers (us ages 24-65) basically always pay for the upcoming generation that are there to take care of us when we get old, and the elderly population that paid for us when we where young. Every generation is helping to take care of the next and the previous.

This is why we need to do things to improve the society we live in like improve health care, fix the saving/borrowing market even if it means regulation, not allowing the financial system to collapse while not allowing it to destroy any wealth that the people are trying to build, and having the ability to ween ourselves off of dirty industry like gasoline and air pollution.

If we can become more responsible as a nation it will help us to prosper for the future. We need to keep fighting to get our government to do things right.

 

[CrackerJax]

Everything needs to be fixed..... what world are you living in? Not possible. This is the FAILING attitude which brings societies down. The attitude is that a utopian society is possible...IF. It is not. There are no shortcuts to progress. It's a dirty tough slog. The govt. taking over the controls of business is NEVER the answer....NEVER!

It makes me think you are naive at best, a fool at worst.