Ron Paul Revolution

[ViRedd]

"we have a nation of unhealthy slugs who smoke, drink, fuck and TV themselves into diabetes, heart disease, obesity, AIDS and a whole list of other ailments that are completely preventable. it's absolute theft to make me pay for someone else's decisions about their health and if it comes to that i will refuse to pay one cent of my taxes any longer; you will be able to contact me at the Brown's residence!"

Exactly!

If health care at the expense of another is truely a "right," then we must consider that rights come with responsibility. We're gonna need a government mandated diet of greens, fruits, healthy proteins and fresh water. In addition, all smoking will have to be outlawed as well as alcohol consumption. Every citizen will be mandated to take a body mass index (BMI) test on a quartly basis. If the maximun BMI is exceded, then its hit the treadmill time for all those who've fallen off the food wagon. For those who simply will not comply, well ... the government will have ways to MAKE you comply.

Why is it that so many who espouse more and more government control over our lives cannot see the slippery slope they are creating?

Vi

 

[medicineman]

"we have a nation of unhealthy slugs who smoke, drink, fuck and TV themselves into diabetes, heart disease, obesity, AIDS and a whole list of other ailments that are completely preventable. it's absolute theft to make me pay for someone else's decisions about their health and if it comes to that i will refuse to pay one cent of my taxes any longer; you will be able to contact me at the Brown's residence!"

Exactly!

If health care at the expense of another is truely a "right," then we must consider that rights come with responsibility. We're gonna need a government mandated diet of greens, fruits, healthy proteins and fresh water. In addition, all smoking will have to be outlawed as well as alcohol consumption. Every citizen will be mandated to take a body mass index (BMI) test on a quartly basis. If the maximun BMI is exceded, then its hit the treadmill time for all those who've fallen off the food wagon. For those who simply will not comply, well ... the government will have ways to MAKE you comply.

Why is it that so many who espouse more and more government control over our lives cannot see the slippery slope they are creating?

Vi

Wake up, you were just having a bad dream, Geeze, you'd have to give up those nasty ass cigars, now I understand.

 

[clekstro]

don't you pay for other people when you buy insurance anyway? And doesn't the state already pay for care it isn't receiving? I don't see the difference, except that the people sitting on the tops of the health insurance companies would stop making billions ripping us off.

And how would you fuck your way to diabetes? I thought that fucking was always safe and recommended? very healthy...

 

[ViRedd]

don't you pay for other people when you buy insurance anyway? And doesn't the state already pay for care it isn't receiving? I don't see the difference, except that the people sitting on the tops of the health insurance companies would stop making billions ripping us off.

And how would you fuck your way to diabetes? I thought that fucking was always safe and recommended? very healthy...

Have you ever heard the term "Bet yer sweet ass?"

Vi

PS: Med ... how would you square your vote for Ron Paul based upon his following quote?:

"There was much talk of taxes, and a pledge not to raise rates. But as usual, I was not allowed to discuss my lifelong pledge to abolish the income tax. Just holding the line, when the government takes such vast sums through an illegitimate guilty-until-proven-innocent system, is
hardly enough. We need to slash taxes and spending if we are to have a future of prosperity for ourselves and our families."

 

[closet.cult]

If health care at the expense of another is truely a "right," then we must consider that rights come with responsibility. We're gonna need a government mandated diet of greens, fruits, healthy proteins and fresh water. In addition, all smoking will have to be outlawed as well as alcohol consumption. Every citizen will be mandated to take a body mass index (BMI) test on a quartly basis. If the maximun BMI is exceded, then its hit the treadmill time for all those who've fallen off the food wagon. For those who simply will not comply, well ... the government will have ways to MAKE you comply.

Why is it that so many who espouse more and more government control over our lives cannot see the slippery slope they are creating?

Vi

here's one responce from Vi that I actually agree with. While the idea of health care for ALL in the U.S. seems like something a rich, powerful and responsible nation could be able to achieve, I haven't yet heard a reasonable solution to it.

 

[closet.cult]

Have you ever heard the term "Bet yer sweet ass?"

Vi

PS: Med ... how would you square your vote for Ron Paul based upon his following quote?:

"There was much talk of taxes, and a pledge not to raise rates. But as usual, I was not allowed to discuss my lifelong pledge to abolish the income tax. Just holding the line, when the government takes such vast sums through an illegitimate guilty-until-proven-innocent system, is
hardly enough. We need to slash taxes and spending if we are to have a future of prosperity for ourselves and our families."

what's wrong with that comment? taxing our INCOME was and still is illegal, according to the constitution. there are better ways to fund the government programs we need then giving up part of our paycheck.

the fair tax has my vote.

 

[clekstro]

yeah, i've heard of it. but i'll repeat: aren't you against insurance companies giving away your payments to some asshole getting some life-necessary surgery! He eats like a bag of chips a day, gets no exercise, but has still managed to get insurance, and to the tune of your hard earned money!

By arguing against national health care on principle, you're arguing against insurance. You just don't want to pay for poor people: how unhealthy they are is really unimportant. And the fact is that your rates would go down if you would get insurance companies, companies that earn money by keeping money and literally not helping people, out of the picture. But even if you keep them in the name of smaller government and more efficient service, pass a law like they have in germany requiring everyone to have insurance, and more people paying in means lower rates for everyone.

The police, army, firefighters, all of it covers everyone. Why not health care? Dubious defense contractors make billions to fight a shadow enemy. Can we not invest in health care and education for children? Since you're not against the principle, really, of giving your money to someone else, Vi...

 

[medicineman]

Have you ever heard the term "Bet yer sweet ass?"

Vi

PS: Med ... how would you square your vote for Ron Paul based upon his following quote?:

"There was much talk of taxes, and a pledge not to raise rates. But as usual, I was not allowed to discuss my lifelong pledge to abolish the income tax. Just holding the line, when the government takes such vast sums through an illegitimate guilty-until-proven-innocent system, is
hardly enough. We need to slash taxes and spending if we are to have a future of prosperity for ourselves and our families."

Again, I see you have failed to read my views on Ron Paul and only come back with your vain un-informed arguements. I've stated that I like most of pauls agenda, but take issue with him of taxation and social programs.
I also stated that I'd be willing to vote for him because he wouldn't be able to force those programs through, and he might make some changes for the better.
Anyone that thinks Paul will be able to come to power and make all those changes in his one and only term, is dreaming. By the time he has made a few changes, the powers that be will put him in bed with a sheep and take pictures and run him out of town on a rail. I'd be hoping that he could reverse all the Bush fuck-ups and legalize MJ, and restore some of our constitutional rights. I seriously doubt he'd get rid of the FED, (they'd kill him first) And that means that the income tax would be here to stay.
All the dreamers that see Paul as the great social reformer must take a more cynical look at history. When you threaten the elites and the great powers that control our government and world, you are short lived. IE. John F. Kennedy.
Make no mistake, Paul would be assasinated quick, and it would be blamed on some left wing radical, can you say Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

[7xstall]

don't you pay for other people when you buy insurance anyway? And doesn't the state already pay for care it isn't receiving? I don't see the difference, except that the people sitting on the tops of the health insurance companies would stop making billions ripping us off.

And how would you fuck your way to diabetes? I thought that fucking was always safe and recommended? very healthy...

yes, i barely use my insurance but that's why it's called insurance, it's there when we need it. the best part is that i can cancel, transfer or modify my insurance coverage. if the state takes over, that won't be an option.








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[7xstall]

yeah, i've heard of it. but i'll repeat: aren't you against insurance companies giving away your payments to some asshole getting some life-necessary surgery! He eats like a bag of chips a day, gets no exercise, but has still managed to get insurance, and to the tune of your hard earned money!

By arguing against national health care on principle, you're arguing against insurance. You just don't want to pay for poor people: how unhealthy they are is really unimportant. And the fact is that your rates would go down if you would get insurance companies, companies that earn money by keeping money and literally not helping people, out of the picture. But even if you keep them in the name of smaller government and more efficient service, pass a law like they have in germany requiring everyone to have insurance, and more people paying in means lower rates for everyone.

The police, army, firefighters, all of it covers everyone. Why not health care? Dubious defense contractors make billions to fight a shadow enemy. Can we not invest in health care and education for children? Since you're not against the principle, really, of giving your money to someone else, Vi...

i don't know if you've never handled insurance yourself, but you have to apply and answers questions about your weight, health, etc. they charge the self-destructive people more; as they should.



















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[clekstro]

yes, i barely use my insurance but that's why it's called insurance, it's there when we need it. the best part is that i can cancel, transfer or modify my insurance coverage. if the state takes over, that won't be an option.

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says who? pass a law like in germany: everyone is required to have insurance, which brings rates down. Those who cannot pay those rates are eligible to have the state pay for it. Private insurance companies exist here, and are an option for people if they want to spend the extra money. But it isn't necessary, because the regular insurance, the program the state supports for everyone, is good enough. They just need to spend more now on the systems to take care of the doctor crisis they have. But it's better than getting nothing for the billions that we spend on shit programs every year, don't ya think?

 

[7xstall]

yeah, government is the only place where demand goes up and prices go down. demand goes down and prices climb! lol, it must be great to be the government!


all of the German citizens i know say that private insurance is extremely expensive, even very rich people complain about the cost (up to $8,000 US / year). worst part is, even if they buy their own they still get taxed for the state program. everyone who can afford it still buys private insurance though.

did you know that German citizens recently had to pay for a young boy (12) to mutilate his body because he felt like a woman trapped in a man's body, is that fair to the tax payers? is it fair to redistribute personal, individual choices to everyone? that's communism.


what billions are you talking about spending on programs that don't work? that could literally be anything the government does.


did you know that in the US private insurance companies aren't allowed to compete on a national market? the government dictates that we aren't allowed to have an open market for insurance. if we just got this federal road block out of the way people would save money today.

we don't need a federal government health system, it's nonsensical. maybe once they take care of their lawful obligations like securing the border, protecting free speech and ending special interest corruption they can fantasize about these kinds of socialist programs. until then, people need to see this for what it is - pandering. free goody bags. bribery.






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[medicineman]

yeah, government is the only place where demand goes up and prices go down. demand goes down and prices climb! lol, it must be great to be the government!


all of the German citizens i know say that private insurance is extremely expensive, even very rich people complain about the cost (up to $8,000 US / year). worst part is, even if they buy their own they still get taxed for the state program. everyone who can afford it still buys private insurance though.

did you know that German citizens recently had to pay for a young boy (12) to mutilate his body because he felt like a woman trapped in a man's body, is that fair to the tax payers? is it fair to redistribute personal, individual choices to everyone? that's communism.
what billions are you talking about spending on programs that don't work? that could literally be anything the government does.


did you know that in the US private insurance companies aren't allowed to compete on a national market? the government dictates that we aren't allowed to have an open market for insurance. if we just got this federal road block out of the way people would save money today.

we don't need a federal government health system, it's nonsensical. maybe once they take care of their lawful obligations like securing the border, protecting free speech and ending special interest corruption they can fantasize about these kinds of socialist programs. until then, people need to see this for what it is - pandering. free goody bags. bribery.






.

Well I disagree. I would tell you all the reasons why, but, thats right , I already have, so I'll not be redundant. I'll just say this, thanks in advance for your contribution to my Medical expenses and even for my present Va Medical,~LOL~.

 

[7xstall]

Well I disagree. I would tell you all the reasons why, but, thats right , I already have, so I'll not be redundant. I'll just say this, thanks in advance for your contribution to my Medical expenses and even for my present Va Medical,~LOL~.

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[7xstall]

watch: YouTube - Ron Paul: Our Power, Our Responsibility





who's ready to do this?






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[medicineman]

watch: YouTube - Ron Paul: Our Power, Our Responsibility





who's ready to do this?,..........................What a great video, it gave me chills. Hey I'd vote for him in an instant as long as he would leave my SS alone and Institute national health care. I'm for everything else on his agenda. I believe he is a great man, but his vision of social programs is skewed. Actually for me, national health care is not that important, I have good coverage. I'm talking for the 200 Million that either have no coverage or overpriced shit coverage. The private sector will not help these people, they are too greedy.





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[7xstall]

there's nothing skewed about believing that there are good people in the world who want to help their fellow citizens out. there's nothing skewed about believing that people like that should be rewarded.

i'm afraid that he believes too much in the American people and the Constitution to force us into a health care slavery system. he's a doctor himself and there is no way he could advocate destroying what he loves.

if people want to buy into a government insurance plan that competes with private business that's fine, let the government try to set up an autonomous program that doesn't absorb money from other budgets - it's never been done before. let people opt in and have the taxes taken out of their pay. the second that system falters it should be allowed to fall apart just like a private company does.



the day that one cent of my tax dollars go into a socialized medicine plan i'll stop paying taxes immediately just like i did when they were funding abortions under Clinton. it wasn't much but they've never seen that tax money and they never will.






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[medicineman]

there's nothing skewed about believing that there are good people in the world who want to help their fellow citizens out. there's nothing skewed about believing that people like that should be rewarded.

i'm afraid that he believes too much in the American people and the Constitution to force us into a health care slavery system. he's a doctor himself and there is no way he could advocate destroying what he loves.

if people want to buy into a government insurance plan that competes with private business that's fine, let the government try to set up an autonomous program that doesn't absorb money from other budgets - it's never been done before. let people opt in and have the taxes taken out of their pay. the second that system falters it should be allowed to fall apart just like a private company does.



the day that one cent of my tax dollars go into a socialized medicine plan i'll stop paying taxes immediately just like i did when they were funding abortions under Clinton. it wasn't much but they've never seen that tax money and they never will.






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I'm sure they have your resort accomodations all set up for you, a one room suite, maybe even with a huge roommate to make love to you on those lonesome nights. Yeah just stop paying your taxes,~LOL~, they love rebels.. Like I said I love 95% of his agenda, just not his views that privatizing everything would be best for the country. It would be best for the greedy corporations, but the citizens would surely not benefit from this. The flawed Idea that charity would fill the gap is just stupid, no, more like Idiotic. Charity wouldn't touch the food stamp and welfare programs. Charity wouldn't touch Social security, charity wouldn't touch medicare. who are you trying to bullshit, Charity has never carried the poor in any government, and never will. The rich, or the Haves do not want to share with the have nots, bullshit. You would put half the population on the streets begging for food, or robbing the rich at every turn. The privitization of America is a very bad Idea. Just look at what has happened with the privitization of the military, the greedy contractors are stealing the taxpayers blind. There are real programs that are best run by the government and welfare, social security, and VA medical are proof that this works. I say unto you, stop paying your taxes, then we can pay for your lodging and food and in fact free medical as soon as you report to a federal prison,~LOL~.

 

[7xstall]

they know where to find me and that's what i'll do.

as far as the private sector being incapable of handling social programs, just look at what they already do. they consistently out perform government on everything from disaster relief (red cross, southern baptist) to medical charity (shriners/masons, countless Christian hospitals) to regulation of industry standards (UL, IEEE, ARIN) to monitoring the environment (FERN, earth policy institute) and everything in between! the government cronies and bureaucrats actually impede progress most of the time.

you've talked about butt kissers before, don't you see that's what the government is? they take the credit for anything they can steal from the private sector and act like they did their job, BS!

why didn't they notice lead painted toys? we pay them to inspect imports.

why didn't they catch tainted vegetables? we pay them to inspect food.

no one but me notices this stuff? lol, we're in bad shape!



imagine what we could do if we didn't have half our pay thrown into the vast abyss of government spending! and you say the private sector is too greedy and selfish... garbage.

another key concept that you're ignoring here is that mega-corporations wouldn't last long without government props holding them up. the natural order is for business to grow to a certain size and either divide or fail, just like the government, it can only get so big before it caves in on itself. revamping the government would set a new economy in motion and it would certainly not be a plutocracy.






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[clekstro]

Yo, 7x:

I think you're right about not covering plastic surgery; it's dangerous and mostly unnecessary. But that has nothing to do with what I said, and I don't believe I ever advocated communism.

Germany experiences the same problems of an immigrant population that is very much subsidized and looked down upon by the average non-politically-correct German as we do. So? That means the reason social programs go in the red much faster is because we're paying for people we shouldn't be. Every single citizen, if health care was mandated, regardless where one purchased it, could have access to health care. If it isn't adequate (and german insurance is quite nice compared to what I paid for in the US: I had a monthly payment, a deductable I never met (which meant that the insurance would only help in case of a terrible accident that never happened) and no help on the medicines I was prescribed; my nose spray costed $80! Insurance made no sense in the US to have as it never really helped minimize the expenses; the only purpose it would serve would be to protect from bankruptcy due to the cost of a surgery. You didn't actually respond to my proposal at all: force people to have insurance, and pay for it if they can't afford it themselves.

Did I ever say competition should be forbidden? I don't think I did. I never advocated "a health care slavery system." So what are you critiquing? Ron Paul is the man, but I think him a little overzealous in stripping government down. And arguing against government corruption in designing programs to benefit corporations and not people (why Nixon loved the idea of HMO's so much) is not an argument against the programs that are currently wasteful because they are bloated. Pop the balloon and stop funding companies that don't need it; but med deserves his meds I think.

If you see it as one of the limited services a citizen has a right to, like the military or firefighters or police; some things are important enough that it has to be left in reliable hands: I would trust Ron Paul to administrate a health care system, even if he didn't believe in it. He has integrity, and that's what's been missing from the federal gov't. Just because the apples are mostly rotten doesn't mean the basket is...

But the biggest thing missing from your argument against nationalized health care--whatever you seem to understand that as--is that most western countries say each person has a right to it. You've never argued against that, and I think that you would be wrong if you did. I don't care how it's implemented; I care that it works...

Med's point about the military is also pertinent: would Paul allow the sale of any sort of weapons systems built by American companies to sell them out of the country? Would he stop the military industrial complex? Or would he just tell them that we're gonna pass and they can sell it to all the people we've pissed off over the years as a result of the poor foreign policy we've had? Sorry that's not that related...