Iran Update...

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PadawanBater

Guest
If you look at who is overwhelmingly against oil exploration , you will find it is the democrats by a WIDE WIDE margin.

Iraq was warned over and over to get out of Kuwait ( a separate nation ), they did not. Warning after warning was dismissed, hence desert storm.

Saddam then violated the peace treaty he signed over and over again during the Clinton years, but with no response. Then the oil for food program was enacted and promptly corrupted by Saddam and several EU big wigs including the very top tiers of the UN. This in and of itself was MORE than enough cause to re engage. certainly the legal thresholds were met at that point alone. After 9/11, it was just a calculated but horrific mistake on Saddams part that a blind eye to his violations would go unanswered. He thought it would be business as usual like with Clinton. Another mistake...one he admitted himself. Both invasions were completely legal and justified and voted upon. Saddam was using Al Queda for his own ends, but after 9/11 that scheme turned around and bit him on the arse. Pretty simple. He realized it before his death.

Of course our govt. is looking out for US, that's their JOB. You are free to move on out if you don't agree with it. We still have open borders, use them.

out.

Why are the democrats against domestic oil exploration, CJ?

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that. You can't just say Iraq invaded Kuwait and ignored warnings to retreat and that's what caused Desert Storm, there are a lot of other variables to consider.

What kind of a response do you think Clinton should have gave to Sadaam violating a peace treaty?

Should I just stop expecting sources from you? We've been over this at least twice, if you're going to say something, you have to cite your sources of information so I know it's not just you saying it to say it, so I know it's based on facts, that's what gets the debate/conversation moving along, this shit you keep pulling by never citing anything does nothing to support your argument, so what is the point in even posting it? CITE SOURCES for the last time!

Sadaam admitted that breaking international treaties and stealing other nations resources and NOT expecting a response from the US or UN was a mistake? I'd love to see that!! That would be like W. admitting he fucked up on something, talk about a long shot!

The invasions may have been technically legal, but in no way are they justified, if you can present me with some justification, I'd be more than willing to hear it. The reasons the US military invaded were fabricated, they had bad intelligence, they thought they knew shit they didn't. How is invading a nation based on false pretext at all justified? And one more thing, the ONLY reason congress voted on the invasion was because of 911. They, just like the rest of the US population, were scared and let emotion cloud their judgment. The mainstream media and Bush administration fortified this with every single statement made, anyone can go back and look at it and see that. Again, if you disagree with me, a simple way to prove me wrong would be to find a statement or document or even a quote by Bush or one of the top appointed officials, like Cheney or Rumsfeld condemning the Iraq war.... ever. None of them EVER have, not once (besides Cheney admitting an invasion of Iraq would lead to a quagmire back in the 90's).

How was Sadaam using Al Queda 'for his own ends'? (don't forget to CITE your SOURCES!)

Stop pulling bullshit out of your ass and making things up.

The US government is NOT looking out for US! If you seriously believe that take one look at the economic problem and the way our 'trusted government' is handling it. They are in it for THEMSELVES, to make THEMSELVES more money, to keep THEMSELVES in office longer, and to keep THEMSELVES in power longer. They couldn't give a fuck less about you or me.

Only cowards run and hide, CJ.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Dem's are owned by the enviro lobbies, so that's their reasoning.

Kuwait was the overriding factor in desert storm. No invasion of Kuwait...no desert storm. Period on that one.

Saddam did admit to it before his death...google it up...it's out there. Once his pride and power were stripped, he confessed.

Yes we had bad intel, everyone did. It's not like despots broadcast their intent on a wire. North Korea has an ICBM on the launch pad even now and they are loading it with what they call a satellite. In a covert nation shrouded in mystery, all intel is suspect. Like i said with Saddam, it was just his bad timing.

As I said, we had every legal reason to invade iraq ever since Saddam started firing missiles at our planes during the Clinton years. Was 9/11 a catalyst? Sure it was. Saddam gloating over the twin towers going down sure didn't help him...he was an itch and he got scratched...literally.

As for Al Queda, it is pretty common knowledge that they ewere ther even if Saddam didn't invite them formally. Their ideology went beyond his desires.

Al Qaeda document | March 16 2008 | jveritas
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 5:49:59 PM by jveritas
On February 17 2008, Al-Ekhlaas which is the largest terrorist forum on the internet published an Al Qaeda document that talks about the life of Abou Musaab Al Zarqawi and indicates that Zarqawi came to Iraq before the war to prepare the terrorist insurgency against the US troops. According to the document Zarqawi arrived to the Sunni areas in central Iraq. This document was written by one of Al Qaeda top leaders called “Saif Al Adel”.
There were many accounts about Zarqawi presence in Iraq before the war in particular in Northern Iraq with “Ansar Al Islam” an active Al Qaeda affiliated terrorist group that was present in the Kurdish areas of Iraq long before the war started. The document also proves that Ansar Al Islam helped Al Qaeda members establish themselves in Iraq before the war started.
The author of the document wrote that there were no relations between Saddam regime and Al Qaeda but this does not negate at all the most important fact that Al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war for the sole purpose of preparing for its most important front to fight the U.S and it is now in Iraq where Al Qaeda is suffering its most crushing defeat since its existence.
It is very important to note that despite the author of the document denial of a relationship between Saddam regime and Al Qaeda it does not mean that Saddam regime was not aware of Al Qaeda presence in Iraq. In fact the documents clearly points out that Zarqawi went to the Sunni areas in Central Iraq before the war and these areas were totally controlled and loyal to Saddam regime and it very hard to imagine that Zarqawi stayed and prepared his terrorist sleepers cells in these Sunni areas without the approval of Saddam regime.



The only thing Bush got wrong was that saddam didn't control them, but they were there and we knew that much. Saddam plus Al Queda was the tipping point.


While I certainly agree that the present administration is the most inept ever (only 2 months!!), Bush was trying to defeat a clear terorist threat, and he did, we did. Now on to Afghanistan and Pakistan t o clean up the rest. Thankfully Mushariff is gone and Bush mad ea HUGE mistake by trusting him. After Mushariff was ousted Bush quickly stopped telling the Pak govt. our attack plans and we have since killed many top operatives ala Predator and reaper drones... :clap:


yes, only cowards run and hide... Hamas, Al Queda, etc. etc...


out. :blsmoke:
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Dem's are owned by the enviro lobbies, so that's their reasoning.
Makes sense, do you have any evidence?

Kuwait was the overriding factor in desert storm. No invasion of Kuwait...no desert storm. Period on that one.
Obviously.

Saddam did admit to it before his death...google it up...it's out there. Once his pride and power were stripped, he confessed.
Exactly what did he confess to?

Yes we had bad intel, everyone did.It's not like despots broadcast their intent on a wire. North Korea has an ICBM on the launch pad even now and they are loading it with what they call a satellite. In a covert nation shrouded in mystery, all intel is suspect. Like i said with Saddam, it was just his bad timing.
The intel was bad because of the people gathering it involved in government. The US has enough political power to dominate over any other disagreeing nation, so even though there were nations who did in fact disagree with the intelligence gathered pre-invasion, it didn't matter because the US government already had a political agenda. There were a lot of contradicted intelligence from other nations intelligence services and our own, they were all ignored and dismissed as unimportant because they didn't support what the government wanted them to support. This cannot be denied, people at the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, all throughout the government, from the top to the bottom have given report after report of shit exactly like this going on within the US government, all ignored because the people in charge of the decisions that could put these people behind bars are all on the same team, they are all against the American people and almost all of them are in it for themselves. If a politicians top priority was the American people, it would be clear, obviously they don't have the best interest of the people they're supposed to represent in mind because stupid political bickering back and fourth wouldn't be enough to stop programs that would benefit everyone, they'd all agree on the good ones and shit would progressively get better.

All intel IS suspect, except US intel, right?

As I said, we had every legal reason to invade iraq ever since Saddam started firing missiles at our planes during the Clinton years. Was 9/11 a catalyst? Sure it was. Saddam gloating over the twin towers going down sure didn't help him...he was an itch and he got scratched...literally.
Why were US planes in Iraqi airspace so they could be fired at in the first place? What if the situation were reversed, would you expect the United States military to NOT FIRE on Iraqi fighter planes over US soil?

As for Al Queda, it is pretty common knowledge that they ewere ther even if Saddam didn't invite them formally. Their ideology went beyond his desires.
E V I D E N C E ? ? ? I've never seen anything that said AQ was in Iraq before the invasion. Where's your proof?

Al Qaeda document (must be true)| March 16 2008 | jveritas
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 5:49:59 PM by jveritas
On February 17 2008, Al-Ekhlaas which is the largest terrorist forum on the internet published an Al Qaeda document that talks about the life of Abou Musaab Al Zarqawi and indicates that Zarqawi came to Iraq before the war to prepare the terrorist insurgency against the US troops. (where does this information come from?) According to the document Zarqawi arrived to the Sunni areas in central Iraq. This document was written by one of Al Qaeda top leaders called “Saif Al Adel”.
There were many accounts about Zarqawi presence in Iraq before the war in particular in Northern Iraq with “Ansar Al Islam” an active Al Qaeda affiliated terrorist group that was present in the Kurdish areas of Iraq long before the war started. (ok, where is the evidence of these accounts? Can we be sure they're accurate?) The document also proves that Ansar Al Islam helped Al Qaeda members establish themselves in Iraq before the war started. (PROVES? Let's see the proof!) Are you sure it's not just some guy saying this AQ leader helped get it started in Iraq? You lose a lot of ability when people can't trust their intelligence community anymore, see how that works...)
The author of the document wrote that there were no relations between Saddam regime and Al Qaeda but this does not negate at all the most important fact that Al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war for the sole purpose of preparing for its most important front to fight the U.S (how exactly would AQ know the US was planning an invasion of Iraq and how would they know to ''prepare for it's most important front to fight the US'' in Iraq without that information?) and it is now in Iraq where Al Qaeda is suffering its most crushing defeat since its existence.
It is very important to note that despite the author of the document denial of a relationship between Saddam regime and Al Qaeda it does not mean that Saddam regime was not aware of Al Qaeda presence in Iraq. In fact the documents clearly points out that Zarqawi went to the Sunni areas in Central Iraq before the war and these areas were totally controlled and loyal to Saddam regime and it very hard to imagine that Zarqawi stayed and prepared his terrorist sleepers cells in these Sunni areas without the approval of Saddam regime. (why the hell would the leader of a country responsible for millions of people allow a known international terrorist organization to operate within it's borders, especially knowing full well the impact it could have on future political issues?

The only thing Bush got wrong was that saddam didn't control them, but they were there and we knew that much. Saddam plus Al Queda was the tipping point.
Yup, there's that amazing intelligence we had again... Ever stop to think shit like this may not be all that accurate?

While I certainly agree that the present administration is the most inept ever (only 2 months!!), Bush was trying to defeat a clear terorist threat, and he did, we did. Now on to Afghanistan and Pakistan t o clean up the rest. Thankfully Mushariff is gone and Bush mad ea HUGE mistake by trusting him. After Mushariff was ousted Bush quickly stopped telling the Pak govt. our attack plans and we have since killed many top operatives ala Predator and reaper drones...
WOOOOOOW!!! That statement gets the BULLSHIT OF THE YEAR AWARD!! "Bush was trying to defeat a clear terrorist threat, and he did" Bahahahahahaha!!

I want some of what you're smoking man!! I'd love to be this satisfied with the US government! You must'a been on cloud 9 the past 8 years!

The only thing Bush accomplished regarding terrorism is, he created more of it, a loooot more of it. He did more than any AQ or Taliban recruiter EVER could have!


yes, only cowards run and hide... Hamas, Al Queda, etc. etc...


out.
Matter of opinion, you call them cowards, others regard them as patriots or heroes. (I do not)
 

suedonimn

Well-Known Member
It does not matter if any one of you have EVIDENCE for backing up your stories. It is not like any one of you is going to take EVIDENCE seriously anyway.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Paddy takes all positions...:lol:

Paddy, you seem to be unaware of quite a few things which are common knowledge. Evidence of enviro's leaning towards dem's? You need to read a bit.

I've already posted to what Saddam confessed. he had every intention of pursuing a nuke program as soon as the pressure was off.

If you don't trust a document from the source ITSELF(Al Queda), what's the point of continuing to post to you? You live in a circular illogical world.


If you are unaware (again? :lol:) of why our planes were in Iraq airspace LEGALLY, you again need to do your homework before posting. I am not your teacher.


Bush did fight terrorism, he did win. he recognized it for what it was, exposed it to the light, gave them shock and awe, and sent them scurrying from the central front to hide in the caves of Afghanistan. Now thanks to his policies, we are even now smoking them out, until Obama drops the ball that is.

Everything is a matter of opinion in the end.... and that last bit...now I know you can't bring yourself to say it. You agree with me. Much simpler to say then spinning your wheels around it.


Yes Sue, Paddy only likes evidence which supports his position. That is where we differ. I don't formulate my position until i have gone over the data.

out. :blsmoke:
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
Paddy is probly some piece of shit sitting in his college(liberal indoctrination) class learning about how horrible the US is and believing every bit of it. GO FUCKING JOIN THE ARMY BEFORE YOU TALK SHIT ABOUT THE BOND FORMED WHEN YOU ARE SITTING THERE NIGHT AFTER NIGHT WATCHING SHIT FIRST HAND!! Fuck you faggot, and yess i DID enjoy offing those fucktards, every fucking one because i know that for every one of them i killed i saved countless innocent Iraqis and American soldiers. I was a 240B gunner the first time and SDM the second, i probly killed more people than you have sitting in your American History class, and i say good. Good that there are people like me out there not afraid to get a little blood on their hands to defend people like you and your right to spew that bullshit. At month 5 of my second tour my wife sent me and my AG/spotter each a new K-BAR, in the last 4 months before i got hurt i put 17 notches on its' backstrap, one for every confirmed shot. How many K-BARs do you think i would have needed if i kept count my whole time paddy?
Keep talking shit about our soldiers and see what happens when they stop caring about you.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
He's deep inside the rabbit hole of misinformation. So sad, so misinformed.

Reps for you Dr. Greenz for laying all out on the line... and a hearty salute (more meaningful)!!

out. :blsmoke:
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
He's deep inside the rabbit hole of misinformation. So sad, so misinformed.

Reps for you Dr. Greenz for laying all out on the line... and a hearty salute (more meaningful)!!

out. :blsmoke:
I only wish more people were like you crackerjax. you dont have to be in the military to serve your country, just dont try to purposefully push your country down like most of the liberals now days.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
It takes a certain mental discipline to ignore the spin and mine your own data. Paddy is woefully found wanting in that department.

I'd rather be right, then happy or smug. Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable, but so be it.

The recent Iraq elections are proof positive that you did your job, and did it well. :clap:

out. :blsmoke:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Bush knew they were there, they knew he would come, it was saddam who was in denial. he did not think Bush would invade. Saddam was wrong and it cost him everything. that's how....

out. :blsmoke:
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
Bush knew they were there, they knew he would come, it was saddam who was in denial. he did not think Bush would invade. Saddam was wrong and it cost him everything. that's how....

out. :blsmoke:
No AQ only came to Iraq because of the impending american invasion. Even your own source states that! Did you read that link i posted up about the 2005 CIA report that debunks your silly claims.
 

Jointsmith

Well-Known Member
BWAHAHAHA!!!

CrackerDumbass and his Murderous Butt buddy Ctp Kill-On-Command.

Drgreenz, your defense sounds like that of SS soldiers after ww2, just doing your duty eh?

Has it occured to you that the people you killed were probably defending their friends and family from your oppession? or that they were RIGHTLY piss at having their friends and families MURDERED by YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS?

No I doubt you considered that when you were 'Defending your family' or our 'liberty'..... well good job asshole :clap: We all feel a lot more FREE after your actions (not really you dumbfuck).

Maybe if you thought for yourself, rather than just following a chain of command (BAAAAH! BAAAAH!) you'd be able to see the gravity of your crimes. You can whine like a little bitch all you like about the 'good job' you think you've done, but when this chain of command comes falling down (as has already begun), it will be YOU who has to answer for your actions....... because we're not gonna give a fuck WHO told you to do it (and you'll deserve what you get).

The winds of change have already begun, 'we the people' WILL take the power back, and Government sponsered CRIMINALS (like you Drgreenz) will be judged and delt with appropriately..... as the old saying goes.... you can't stop progress.
 

Jointsmith

Well-Known Member
No AQ only came to Iraq because of the impending american invasion. Even your own source states that! Did you read that link i posted up about the 2005 CIA report that debunks your silly claims.
CrackerDumbass read someone else's opinion?

I'll have to see it to believe it.
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
LOL joint look into what a SDM does, I had to make my own decisions based on the situation, no one ever said "hey go shoot that fuck." Besides talk to a few people who have been there, not one person I killed or my unit captured was an Iraqi so your entire "freedom fighters" argument is piss wrong buddy. They were all Iranian, Syrian, Lebanese, Moracan, you name it, but not one was a born and bred Iraqi. The truth is the Iraqi people love us for giving them their country back asshole, why do you think they showed out to vote in record numbers, thats right more Iraqis voted than americans did last year. you really need to do some research before you try and debate those who have been there done that. Any of you who think that these new "terrorist, jihadis, freedom fighters, insurgents, what ever you want to call them" don't want to kill you just for being in a free country need to take a trip to one of these places and see just how long your ass lives before getting your head cut off on the internet. They attacked us first remember? remember 9/11? remember the Madrid bombings? remember the UK subway bombings? yea we are the real terrorist for striking back...
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
Hey joints, your in SW UK heh? my family is all in nottingham, i am going to visit them in may 5th - 12th, already got my room reserved at the Welbec Inn. why dont you drop by and "judge me appropriately"
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
They attacked us first remember? remember 9/11? remember the Madrid bombings? remember the UK subway bombings? yea we are the real terrorist for striking back...
Yes we do remember that saddam or Iraq had nothing to with 9/11, the madrid bombing or the uk subway bombings.
 

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
Your right natrone the number 1 harborer and funder of al quaeda at the time had nothing to do with it. im sorry you have completely changed my mind...
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
not one person I killed or my unit captured was an Iraqi so your entire "freedom fighters" argument is piss wrong buddy. They were all Iranian, Syrian, Lebanese, Moracan, you name it, but not one was a born and bred Iraqi. The truth is the Iraqi people love us ..
The statistics show that less than ten percent of the insurgency are foreign fighters, although foreign fighters to tend to be the most fanatical and violent.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Why are the democrats against domestic oil exploration, CJ?

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that. You can't just say Iraq invaded Kuwait and ignored warnings to retreat and that's what caused Desert Storm, there are a lot of other variables to consider.

What kind of a response do you think Clinton should have gave to Sadaam violating a peace treaty?

Should I just stop expecting sources from you? We've been over this at least twice, if you're going to say something, you have to cite your sources of information so I know it's not just you saying it to say it, so I know it's based on facts, that's what gets the debate/conversation moving along, this shit you keep pulling by never citing anything does nothing to support your argument, so what is the point in even posting it? CITE SOURCES for the last time!

Sadaam admitted that breaking international treaties and stealing other nations resources and NOT expecting a response from the US or UN was a mistake? I'd love to see that!! That would be like W. admitting he fucked up on something, talk about a long shot!

The invasions may have been technically legal, but in no way are they justified, if you can present me with some justification, I'd be more than willing to hear it. The reasons the US military invaded were fabricated, they had bad intelligence, they thought they knew shit they didn't. How is invading a nation based on false pretext at all justified? And one more thing, the ONLY reason congress voted on the invasion was because of 911. They, just like the rest of the US population, were scared and let emotion cloud their judgment. The mainstream media and Bush administration fortified this with every single statement made, anyone can go back and look at it and see that. Again, if you disagree with me, a simple way to prove me wrong would be to find a statement or document or even a quote by Bush or one of the top appointed officials, like Cheney or Rumsfeld condemning the Iraq war.... ever. None of them EVER have, not once (besides Cheney admitting an invasion of Iraq would lead to a quagmire back in the 90's).

How was Sadaam using Al Queda 'for his own ends'? (don't forget to CITE your SOURCES!)

Stop pulling bullshit out of your ass and making things up.

The US government is NOT looking out for US! If you seriously believe that take one look at the economic problem and the way our 'trusted government' is handling it. They are in it for THEMSELVES, to make THEMSELVES more money, to keep THEMSELVES in office longer, and to keep THEMSELVES in power longer. They couldn't give a fuck less about you or me.

Only cowards run and hide, CJ.
The statistics show that less than ten percent of the insurgency are foreign fighters, although foreign fighters to tend to be the most fanatical and violent.
Al Queda was in Iraq. Point one.

They knew we would invade because of Saddams position and foolish bravado. Al Queda knew they were going to hit the twin towers....Saddam did not. Saddam was the pawn this time around...kind of funny.

My source is from 2008...much more recent...much more accurate (straight from the horses mouth). You can't have it both ways by saying our intel suks and then use that same intel as a defense. there is no defense. just altered and misinformed perspectives.

out. :blsmoke:
 
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