Chlorine Friendly Nutrients In Canada

[The Older Guy]

I used to just add a little pH down thru the hole. Hell of a lot of work pumping the water out to do that. I used 96% sulphuric acid to lower the pH from about 6.2 - 5.5 took about 4 or 5 drops in 50L of water. As the plants grew I'd just add small amounts of nutes with a syringe to get the ppm back up to target every 3 days when I topped it up with RO water first. Then test and adjust. Sometimes wouldn't even go down there for 3 or 4 days.

Then AN came out with pH Perfect nutes and I just had to test ppm and after a while go the whole grow without ever changing nutes. The ultimate lazy man's grow. Now if I could just train them damn cats to trim.

For sure lol. Cats are quick lol and it certainly sounds like a trouble free system.

 

[The Older Guy]

Root is back. Enzymes Komplete was working fine and the roots were white right into three weeks of flower. Anyone using Enzymes Komplete knows how much it foams for the first few hours, so you have to turn the air down a lot. I turned it back up in the res, but forgot the plants for 36 to 48 hours. That's all it needed and it was back... real bad. (The temp was holding around 65F). Bad enough the Enzymes Komplete can not turn it around... maybe because there is a much bigger root ball than in veg. I have read that quite a few people use bleach right out of the bottle. I used the dilution calculator, and it is great. Under normal circumstances you would use around 3ppm to keep everything clean and out of trouble. I'm thinking with bad root rot and a large root ball the percentage would have to be much higher. The bleach I amusing is 6%... get it at Wallmart. The system is RDWC and the pump goes all the time. I'm in the process of getting a better pump as I don't think this one pumps enough volume per minute. So, right now I am using 25ml per 90L which using the calculator gives me 16ppm chlorine. That's around five times higher than what you would normally use. What's your thoughts on this? Should I use more? I know this is going to be a hard road to hoe because of the stage of growth they are in. Any comments are appreciated...

 

[OldMedUser]

I've never used bleach but if it's really 16ppm that should help but it's not going to last long so would need to be added daily I would think. The chlorine evaporates pretty fast along with being used up reacting with the rot. Residual chlorine in tap water is supposed to be around 4 - 8ppm at the tap but I'm not sure what it is at the start.

I find it odd that rot would spring up if the temp is kept at 65. Once I was able to keep my temp at 65 - 68 I wasn't using anything in the tubs and never got rot.

Years ago when I was back in school for chemistry we ran an experiment to test the actual percentage of 4 or 5 brands of domestic bleach and the off brand ones were lower than what the label stated so you might not be starting with 6%. Chlorox was 1 or 2 percent higher than on the label so worth the extra buck or two per bottle. Pool shock is probably your best source for chlorine at a consistent level but I've never used that either. 35% food grade peroxide was my go-to and I used 4 - 8ml/L daily for a few days and that wiped out the rot pretty quick.

Are you removing any loose or dead root pieces before treatment? The less of that crap in there the better your treatment will work. A small aquarium net or kitchen sieve helps to get all the little bits like skimming a pool does.

Sucks to get this now. Good luck!

 

[The Older Guy]

I've never used bleach but if it's really 16ppm that should help but it's not going to last long so would need to be added daily I would think. The chlorine evaporates pretty fast along with being used up reacting with the rot. Residual chlorine in tap water is supposed to be around 4 - 8ppm at the tap but I'm not sure what it is at the start.

I find it odd that rot would spring up if the temp is kept at 65. Once I was able to keep my temp at 65 - 68 I wasn't using anything in the tubs and never got rot.

Years ago when I was back in school for chemistry we ran an experiment to test the actual percentage of 4 or 5 brands of domestic bleach and the off brand ones were lower than what the label stated so you might not be starting with 6%. Chlorox was 1 or 2 percent higher than on the label so worth the extra buck or two per bottle. Pool shock is probably your best source for chlorine at a consistent level but I've never used that either. 35% food grade peroxide was my go-to and I used 4 - 8ml/L daily for a few days and that wiped out the rot pretty quick.

Are you removing any loose or dead root pieces before treatment? The less of that crap in there the better your treatment will work. A small aquarium net or kitchen sieve helps to get all the little bits like skimming a pool does.

Sucks to get this now. Good luck!

Thanks for that OldMedUser. It's been around 48 hours so I'm going to do a complete change out today. When I change the res I'm able to get ride of 95% of the old water. The res is completely clean. I only have a opening about 3"x4" in the pot, but I am able to see through this and so far there hasn't been anything floating around and when I drain the pot there hasn't been anything coming out with the water. I'll see what happens today. I think the rot was there and just couldn't spread until I screwed up'

The pots are made from coolers so it's pretty easy to control the temp. I've now set it to cut in at 64 instead of 65. The chiller is a commercial chiller built locally and is built to hold lobsters so it looks after this pretty easy. That's good to know about the bleach. I think I will get some Chlorox today. There really isn't all that big a difference in the price.

Wondering... when you had rot were you in flower? Was there a large root ball, and were all the roots affected or just spots of the root ball? If the bleach don't work and the plants are still alive I'll try the h2o2, I grow large plants, one per cooler and I'm not sure if it makes a difference of the size of the root ball but to give you an idea of the size, they would almost fill half of the cooler.

Always like your comments, thanks.

 

[The Older Guy]

Forgot to mention... this is the calculator i use... http://foodsafe.ca/dilution-calculator.html

 

[OldMedUser]

Wondering... when you had rot were you in flower? Was there a large root ball, and were all the roots affected or just spots of the root ball? If the bleach don't work and the plants are still alive I'll try the h2o2, I grow large plants, one per cooler and I'm not sure if it makes a difference of the size of the root ball but to give you an idea of the size, they would almost fill half of the cooler.

Been almost 20 years but I think I was in late veg one time and mid-flower the 2nd time I had rot. I didn't know enough at the time to be using anything to prevent it and both times it happened I had rooted clones in a mix that had real soil in it so I figured the rot bugs came from there.

I had one tub with 16 plants in it so by the end it looked like the tub was more full of roots than water. As an experiment when I cropped I sliced all the roots off the net pots and left them in the tub. Then I added enough water to have it level with the ridge inside the tub which was my full level while growing. I lifted the mass of roots up and let them drain back into the tub with a few shakes to get it all out. Then I added a measured amount of water back until I hit the ride and it was only 2L to get there. Proved to me that the roots only displaced 4% of the space but look like a lot more. I was quite surprised about that. Full to that level in the tall Rubbermaid tub was 50L The shorter tubs take 35L to hit the same level and the lids are the same size so I would veg in the shorter one then when time to flip would prepare a clean tall tub with a batch of flowering nutes and new air stones then just pull the top off with the plants and set it on top of the fresh tub. Later I would just start the grow in tall tubs and never change the nutes the whole grow and it worked just fine.

This was the one I did the experiment with.

 

[The Older Guy]

Been almost 20 years but I think I was in late veg one time and mid-flower the 2nd time I had rot. I didn't know enough at the time to be using anything to prevent it and both times it happened I had rooted clones in a mix that had real soil in it so I figured the rot bugs came from there.

I had one tub with 16 plants in it so by the end it looked like the tub was more full of roots than water. As an experiment when I cropped I sliced all the roots off the net pots and left them in the tub. Then I added enough water to have it level with the ridge inside the tub which was my full level while growing. I lifted the mass of roots up and let them drain back into the tub with a few shakes to get it all out. Then I added a measured amount of water back until I hit the ride and it was only 2L to get there. Proved to me that the roots only displaced 4% of the space but look like a lot more. I was quite surprised about that. Full to that level in the tall Rubbermaid tub was 50L The shorter tubs take 35L to hit the same level and the lids are the same size so I would veg in the shorter one then when time to flip would prepare a clean tall tub with a batch of flowering nutes and new air stones then just pull the top off with the plants and set it on top of the fresh tub. Later I would just start the grow in tall tubs and never change the nutes the whole grow and it worked just fine.

This was the one I did the experiment with.

View attachment 5354848

View attachment 5354849

Those roots look really good, and also that you had it figured out pretty good. Yes, foreshore, they definitely look like they would take up more space than that. Did you use anything to keep clear of root rot on the one that you are showing? Looks like a simple operation, but very affective, With that system it looks like you really don't have control of the temps, How did that work? When adding ph up or down I'm guessing you relied on the bubble action to mix it. Did the leaves ever show an issue? Looking back, do you think the yield was up where you think it should of been? Sorry for all the questions, but it does look very interesting and I have a room that I don't use much that I could do something like that.

Hope you had a good Christmas and the new year coming is a good one.

 

[OldMedUser]

I was still using peroxide in those days before I made a DIY chiller out of old gifted water cooler and a small fountain pump. 0.5ml/L 35% H2O2 twice a week. I had made up a bunch of clones for a buddy but he ended up not taking them so I stuck 4 in each of 4 - 5" net pots and let 'er rip.

When I added conc. sulphuric acid, 4 or 5 drops, I just dripped it thru the access hole and let the bubbles mix it up. Same with peroxide and nutes.

O forget how much pot I got off that one but it was a good amount. Not a lot more than just growing one plant in each pot if I remember correctly. Wasn't good enough for me to bother doing it again I know for sure.

Great Xmas thanks. Did a lot of

Love me a good Butterball! Had to wait 4 hours before I could have my pumpkin pie smothered in fresh whipped cream. The wife nailed the stuffing this time and made a double batch of cranberry sauce with brown sugar so it shouldn't run out before the leftover turkey and stuffing do. 16lb bird for 4 people. Can hardly wait for the soup.

Hope yours was good too.

 

[The Older Guy]

I was still using peroxide in those days before I made a DIY chiller out of old gifted water cooler and a small fountain pump. 0.5ml/L 35% H2O2 twice a week. I had made up a bunch of clones for a buddy but he ended up not taking them so I stuck 4 in each of 4 - 5" net pots and let 'er rip.

When I added conc. sulphuric acid, 4 or 5 drops, I just dripped it thru the access hole and let the bubbles mix it up. Same with peroxide and nutes.

O forget how much pot I got off that one but it was a good amount. Not a lot more than just growing one plant in each pot if I remember correctly. Wasn't good enough for me to bother doing it again I know for sure.

Great Xmas thanks. Did a lot of View attachment 5355162

Love me a good Butterball! Had to wait 4 hours before I could have my pumpkin pie smothered in fresh whipped cream. The wife nailed the stuffing this time and made a double batch of cranberry sauce with brown sugar so it shouldn't run out before the leftover turkey and stuffing do. 16lb bird for 4 people. Can hardly wait for the soup.

Hope yours was good too.

I see. For quiet awhile now I've only grown 4 large plants no matter what way I was growing, Coco, Sunshine Mix #4, and now Hydroten with net pots, not sure what size they are... anyway they fit on top of a bucket, but I use camping coolers. Buckets in the veg room. I've decided to use bleach from the start to see if I can make a whole grow with no rot. I went from coco to hydro a couple grows ago and so far always got root rot. I've done hydro on several occasions, but always got rot. Looking back, I understand why lol. Anyway, I have four clones that are in the veg room. The roots are just starting to come out the bottom of the pot and I've been using Enzymes Komplete, but I am going to switch when I do the next res change. That seams to work, but, I don't like having to turn the air almost off for up to a day or so... which this time I forgot to turn back up and ended up getting rot. Pretty sure it was there, just couldn't get going until I forgot to turn the air up. I can tell you from experience the low temps... 65F... won't keep it away and I also have lots of air. Guess we'll see how it goes.

Yes, we had a good Christmas and the wife's boys were here and one wife. Only one is married. She really enjoys having them here, and boy, can they eat lol. That's great, stuffing is very important. I've been trying to cut back, but that went out the window and yes, can't beat that pumpkin pie. Now, the way your wife makes cranberry sauce is new to me. We just get a couple cans of it, but I bet your home made cranberry sauce blows the can stuff out of the water.

 

[OldMedUser]

I can tell you from experience the low temps... 65F... won't keep it away and I also have lots of air. Guess we'll see how it goes.

Once I got my little chiller going I never used peroxide again and never had rot. Must have done 20 or so tubs in 5 years with that. I even re-used my 12" airstones but soaked in 10% peroxide for days before putting back into service. Maybe I was just lucky. Just going to grow in pots of promix now. I even made a DWC type cloner and had rot starting on clone roots but after planting in promix they grew fine.

Maybe that Enzymes Komplete stuff goes bad after a while and is the source of your rot. I dunno tho.

The homemade cranberry sauce is much better than the canned stuff even tho both are Ocean Spray who I worked for twice 25 years apart. Driving forklift and 25 after they still had these crappy old white forklifts but had got a new fast one which I claimed as mine because they needed production and I could outdrive the hell out of anybody else. Someone might be on it loading trucks but as soon as I walked in they'd park it and go get one of the old ones without a word.

If you prefer the jelly one then homemade isn't for you but we like the berries in. Easy-peasy with a recipe on the bag. Wife used brown sugar but white works or substitute honey. Probably recipes online how to use stevia or other non-sugar sweeteners too but we like our sugar.

Wife says you can use one of those squeezer things for making fruit jellies to get all the juice so you have jelly type too.

Now I'm hungry so better go make a turkey/stuffing sammy with lots of cranberry sauce on it. After a toke or two of course.

 

[The Older Guy]

Once I got my little chiller going I never used peroxide again and never had rot. Must have done 20 or so tubs in 5 years with that. I even re-used my 12" airstones but soaked in 10% peroxide for days before putting back into service. Maybe I was just lucky. Just going to grow in pots of promix now. I even made a DWC type cloner and had rot starting on clone roots but after planting in promix they grew fine.

Maybe that Enzymes Komplete stuff goes bad after a while and is the source of your rot. I dunno tho.

The homemade cranberry sauce is much better than the canned stuff even tho both are Ocean Spray who I worked for twice 25 years apart. Driving forklift and 25 after they still had these crappy old white forklifts but had got a new fast one which I claimed as mine because they needed production and I could outdrive the hell out of anybody else. Someone might be on it loading trucks but as soon as I walked in they'd park it and go get one of the old ones without a word.

If you prefer the jelly one then homemade isn't for you but we like the berries in. Easy-peasy with a recipe on the bag. Wife used brown sugar but white works or substitute honey. Probably recipes online how to use stevia or other non-sugar sweeteners too but we like our sugar.

Wife says you can use one of those squeezer things for making fruit jellies to get all the juice so you have jelly type too.

Now I'm hungry so better go make a turkey/stuffing sammy with lots of cranberry sauce on it. After a toke or two of course.

I was sure with the chiller and lots of air ,using Enzymes Komplete that I wouldn't have problem. Actually, I didn't until I forgot to turn the air up once the foam generated by the Enzymes Komplete died down. I think it was there... just couldn't advance until the lack of air allowed it to . Enzymes Komplete... as far as I understand isn't alive and the guys in BC, which is where it's made said it's good for 10 years. I don't think it was just luck that you didn't get rot, I think a lot of people grow without having that problem for whatever reason. There's something going on here that I'm not seeing. I don't have mothers, so I'm always taking cuttings that at one time or another, from a plant that has had rot. I know what you think so far as a plant carrying rot lol, but something is going on. I have clones that the roots are just starting to come through the bottom of the pot. Their res is being changed today and I an going to start using bleach with them... thinking one and a half ppm to start which is which is 1.4 ml of bleach for 55L, That shouldn't be too much to start out and after a couple days increase it a little if everything looks good. I have the round air stones that sit in a plastic base. A lot of times I pour 29% peroxide on them and I have also soaked them.

Yes, the wife says she has seen that, so we'll be giving it a try. It's good that the crew understood and accepted that was your lift. The slower ones was probably their pace anyway lol.

 

[OldMedUser]

thinking one and a half ppm to start which is which is 1.4 ml of bleach for 55L

That won't likely be an effective dose. Do a search on here for pool shock and you'll find all sorts of guides about what levels you need to keep rot at bay. I'm no longer going to bother with all that and stick to growing in pots of promix with hydro nutes. I rarely have any problems with that. I may set up some sort of self watering system to cut down on the watering chores but nothing fancy or expensive. I bought 26 10L square pots to do a SoG type grow and may just stick to those. Stick in clones and once established and a foot high or so flower them Probably a max of 2oz per plant but a lot less popcorn bud and training etc to deal with. 25 of those pots will fit in a 4x4' space with a few inches to spare so by trimming side branches each plant ends up being one long cola and saves a lot of trimming. Kinda like they do apple trees to work better with automated picking machines in BC. Funniest looking things but just covered in apples.

 

[The Older Guy]

That won't likely be an effective dose. Do a search on here for pool shock and you'll find all sorts of guides about what levels you need to keep rot at bay. I'm no longer going to bother with all that and stick to growing in pots of promix with hydro nutes. I rarely have any problems with that. I may set up some sort of self watering system to cut down on the watering chores but nothing fancy or expensive. I bought 26 10L square pots to do a SoG type grow and may just stick to those. Stick in clones and once established and a foot high or so flower them Probably a max of 2oz per plant but a lot less popcorn bud and training etc to deal with. 25 of those pots will fit in a 4x4' space with a few inches to spare so by trimming side branches each plant ends up being one long cola and saves a lot of trimming. Kinda like they do apple trees to work better with automated picking machines in BC. Funniest looking things but just covered in apples.

Yes, you are right, that's a lot less work. I have to do a lot of tying down and then as they flower, tying up and then there's untying everything. I'm retired now so I have the time. The clones I am talking about have just got established so I didn't want to give them too much of a surprise. I actually ended up doing 2ppm and so far no problem, I plan to run 4ppm and from what I have read that should keep everything from getting started. I'm not sure, but I think you would do the 4ppm twice a week, maybe three.

When I grew in coco I set up auto watering and the run off to a drain. It worked pretty good and saves a lot of work. I don't blame you for cutting down on the trimming... it kinda sucks lol. I try to prune so I have a minimum amount of popcorn bud...hate to see it...

 

[The Older Guy]

I found this from years ago. I don't if he knows what he's talking about, although he does sound like he does.

[IMG alt="Dr. VonDank"]https://www.rollitup.org/data/avatars/m/165/165903.jpg?1254641335[/IMG]
Dr. VonDank
Active Member
Dec 31, 2009

• #31

Very interesting topic. I have used H202 for the treatment of Root Rot--30ppms/300ppms/600ppms. It seems we are all on agreement that preventative measures are key---But once the nasty brown fungi hit--what really works... I have used the low h202 30ppms treatment with enzymes. And the 300/600ppms rate alone. H202 breaks down rather fast but since root rots are anaerobic the extra DO does continue to help by creating an unfriendly high Do level for about 48 hours--I am very interested about the chlorine and killing of root rot since h202 is just a treatment. I think its important to find the source of the problem and correct that first. If your running strick organics then you should try to stay away from h202 and clorine. There are good beneficial bac/fungi products out there that can keep the root rot in check. Enzymes work great to keep your mediums clean and beneficials keep root rot in check. Fatman----Since root rots are systemic and can be passed on to cuttings and clones are you saying that with the correct treatment of clorine you can treat a mother plant and cuttings taking from her after the treatment will be free of root rot

 

[OldMedUser]

I'm pretty sure the bacteria that causes root rot does not enter the circulatory system of the plant to infect all it's tissues so cuttings that don't come into contact with the infected roots aren't going to grow and develop root rot or why would clones I had with rot not die after being planted into pots of promix where they would have if put in a hydro system.

If you're running sterile from the start with clean clones and low nute temps then rot from outside should never begin in the system. That's why my DWC were always done in separate tubs so if rot started in one it couldn't spread to another tub as there was no connection like with RDWC. Sterilizing a linked system is a real PITA and I've seen so many instances of people never getting them clean enough to not get rot the next cycle.

Rarely do I see systems like flood and drain have problems with rot and you have to be a chronic overwaterer to get rot in pots of soil/soilless grows.

 

[nxsov180db]

I only read the first page of this thread, but 9ml of 3% peroxide isn't going to do much..

 

[OldMedUser]

I only read the first page of this thread, but 9ml of 3% peroxide isn't going to do much..

It definitely will not. I've used 4 - 8ml/L of 35% peroxide daily to effectively kill off rot in the past and advised many people over the years and it worked for them too. Normally 0.5ml/L twice a week prevented rot from ever starting when I didn't have cooling and didn't get rot once I did even without the low dose at all.

 

[nxsov180db]

It definitely will not. I've used 4 - 8ml/L of 35% peroxide daily to effectively kill off rot in the past and advised many people over the years and it worked for them too. Normally 0.5ml/L twice a week prevented rot from ever starting when I didn't have cooling and didn't get rot once I did even without the low dose at all.

When I did recirculating hydro I added 10ml of 33% per gallon. I was losing the root rot battle so I doubled that once to 20ml per gallon but it burned up some fan leaves lol. Did 8ml per liter cause any issues for you?

 

[OldMedUser]

When I did recirculating hydro I added 10ml of 33% per gallon. I was losing the root rot battle so I doubled that once to 20ml per gallon but it burned up some fan leaves lol. Did 8ml per liter cause any issues for you?

I don't know how fan leaves would be affected unless you sprayed them but there was root damage a bit at 8ml/L but like chemo there is some collateral damage as the bad cells are killed off. When I did have rot I would cut off all the roots leaving about an inch out of the net pots. Tehy grow back real fast. I would do the same to reveg a tub of plants and got 3 crops off one tub doing that.

 

[OldMedUser]

Oh and 20mls/USG is only 5ml/L so lower than the max I used but I only used that the first day then went to 4ml/L for the nest 3 days then every 2nd day for 3 more. Did the trick both times. Twice out of 50 tubs isn't so bad.