Hamas offensive against Israel
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DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
this is very true.....gotta watch misinfo from both sides.....i've seen it more on the Palestinian side than the IDF side.....js
so watch out on any social media site...please
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
oh hell.....leader of HAMAS....."we are not responsible for the palestinian people" did i read that right.....wtf....
meanwhile this asshole sits in nice chair, a/c and prolly had a good lunch.....where either in DOHA, UAE, or Saudi.....smh
meanwhile this asshole sits in nice chair, a/c and prolly had a good lunch.....where either in DOHA, UAE, or Saudi.....smh
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Why he sounds like a republican speaking about Americans! They are the government and are not responsible sounds like Trump.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
DOH!!!
www.newsweek.com
Israeli official issues warning to Putin on Russian state TV
"We will make sure that you pay the price for what you have done, you as Russia," said Amir Weitmann, head of the libertarian caucus in Israel's Likud Party.
www.newsweek.com
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What happened at the hospital was horrible and both sides have a hand in it happening regardless who fired the missile. But that event is minutia compared to the military operation Israel is carrying out.
This is what has my attention and concern. This is why I can no longer support US policies toward Israel:
www.reuters.com
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, who told troops the previous day that an order to invade would come soon, said on Friday that achieving Israel's objectives would not be quick or easy.
"We will topple the Hamas organisation. We will destroy its military and governing infrastructure. It's a phase that will not be easy. It will have a price," he told a parliamentary committee.
He added that the subsequent phase would be more drawn out, but was aimed at achieving "a completely different security situation" with no threat to Israel from Gaza. "It's not a day, it's not a week, and unfortunately it's not a month," he said.
Israel's fascist government intends genocide and is using the terrorist attack that Hamas perpetrated as an excuse to carry that out. Hamas doesn't care about the people of Gaza either. They are using Israel's actions to trigger a larger war in the Middle East. Let us not be chumps and fall for the propaganda that is being used to influence people one way or the other. Hamas or Israel, both sides are bad. Whatever Biden does, I will judge his success or failure by how successful Hamas or Israel are in achieving their objectives. If Israel does not succeed in displacing Palestinians from their homeland and Hamas does not succeed in triggering war between Israel and other states in the ME, then I'll credit Biden with a win.
This is what has my attention and concern. This is why I can no longer support US policies toward Israel:
Hamas frees U.S. hostages Judith and Natalie Raanan held in Gaza
The Islamist group Hamas released two U.S. hostages, mother and daughter Judith and Natalie Raanan, who were kidnapped in its attack on southern Israel on Oct. 7, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said on Friday.
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, who told troops the previous day that an order to invade would come soon, said on Friday that achieving Israel's objectives would not be quick or easy.
"We will topple the Hamas organisation. We will destroy its military and governing infrastructure. It's a phase that will not be easy. It will have a price," he told a parliamentary committee.
He added that the subsequent phase would be more drawn out, but was aimed at achieving "a completely different security situation" with no threat to Israel from Gaza. "It's not a day, it's not a week, and unfortunately it's not a month," he said.
Israel's fascist government intends genocide and is using the terrorist attack that Hamas perpetrated as an excuse to carry that out. Hamas doesn't care about the people of Gaza either. They are using Israel's actions to trigger a larger war in the Middle East. Let us not be chumps and fall for the propaganda that is being used to influence people one way or the other. Hamas or Israel, both sides are bad. Whatever Biden does, I will judge his success or failure by how successful Hamas or Israel are in achieving their objectives. If Israel does not succeed in displacing Palestinians from their homeland and Hamas does not succeed in triggering war between Israel and other states in the ME, then I'll credit Biden with a win.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I see a coincident, they happen every day.
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
printer
Well-Known Member
So you do not think killing 1.000 people and kidnapping 200 not enough reason to act. You know what? Whenever I look at a situation I look at it from both sides. Then I call them like I see them. I got some flack in the beginning of the thread seeming as I was too much in the Palestinian camp (although not Hamas). We could both toss the ping pong ball back and forth saying the other side has things to answer for. Heck, we could say the same thing at any point in time over the last 100 years. Unless you admit the current state of events are due to Hamas (actually many factions in Hamas, which ones were responsible, maybe with your cosy relationship with them you can say which one) I have nothing left to say. Yes Israel is running an apartheid state and Hamas says it will not stop until Israel is destroyed. Want to say something of note? Explain how the both sides get out of the mess without bloodshed.What happened at the hospital was horrible and both sides have a hand in it happening regardless who fired the missile. But that event is minutia compared to the military operation Israel is carrying out.
This is what has my attention and concern. This is why I can no longer support US policies toward Israel:
Hamas frees U.S. hostages Judith and Natalie Raanan held in Gaza
The Islamist group Hamas released two U.S. hostages, mother and daughter Judith and Natalie Raanan, who were kidnapped in its attack on southern Israel on Oct. 7, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said on Friday.
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, who told troops the previous day that an order to invade would come soon, said on Friday that achieving Israel's objectives would not be quick or easy.
"We will topple the Hamas organisation. We will destroy its military and governing infrastructure. It's a phase that will not be easy. It will have a price," he told a parliamentary committee.
He added that the subsequent phase would be more drawn out, but was aimed at achieving "a completely different security situation" with no threat to Israel from Gaza. "It's not a day, it's not a week, and unfortunately it's not a month," he said.
Israel's fascist government intends genocide and is using the terrorist attack that Hamas perpetrated as an excuse to carry that out. Hamas doesn't care about the people of Gaza either. They are using Israel's actions to trigger a larger war in the Middle East. Let us not be chumps and fall for the propaganda that is being used to influence people one way or the other. Hamas or Israel, both sides are bad. Whatever Biden does, I will judge his success or failure by how successful Hamas or Israel are in achieving their objectives. If Israel does not succeed in displacing Palestinians from their homeland and Hamas does not succeed in triggering war between Israel and other states in the ME, then I'll credit Biden with a win.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I'd prefer we not discuss past grievances as if they justified what is happening now. They might explain how we got here but they don't justify anything that's happening right now. So, let's just start with the invasion by Hamas and then discuss if what Israel is doing in response is the proper one.
I do not think a full-on invasion of Gaza by Israel is justified by the terrorist act by Hamas. I understand anger, I understand the desire for revenge, I understand that people tend to think that violence can solve problems. That is the crux of my complaint about what Israel is doing. Violence does not solve problems. It could, I suppose, if Israel were to commit the crime of genocide. That would be called the peace of the dead. Ancient Rome used to do that. They sacked Carthage and sowed the fields around that city with salt to prevent it from every becoming a great city again. It worked. Carthage was obliterated from the pages of history. They also expelled all Jews from the lands they occupied in the Great Diaspora. It worked. Jews never again caused problems for the Emperor. Is that what you would consider appropriate for today's response? Expel all Palestinians from Israel, Gaza and the West Bank? That would get them peace, maybe. But I don't think that is an acceptable solution. If the Jews of Israel don't commit genocide then they must live with the Muslim population that have as much right to live there as the Jews do. So, no. I don't think what Israel is doing is justified.
So, let let me ask you this question. Do you think what Israel is doing is appropriate and how do you think it will end?
BudmanTX
Well-Known Member
the Invasion of Hamas.....from what i've been reading this is a Russia/Iran thing to get eyes of off Ukraine and what Russia and Iran are doing there....imo. Hamas was trained by the Russians and the IRGC for 4 yrs for this.....
Is the Isreali response proper.....tbo no i don't think it is, to drop a 2k bomb on a building with innocent Palestinans inside in my view is not right, I would rather see a AC130 in the air for precise strike on the rock stations instead of a 2k Jdam, as for invasion i would hope it doesn't get to that point there will be more blood shed if they do.....
How will it end......TBH i don't know...imho let have HAMAS return the hostages, quit firing rockets and return to the peace they had before all this crap started
in further history i would rather see that Palestinian people rise up against HAMAS, from HAMAS's own leadership they don't care about the people at all, they are just using them, so lets foster the palestinian people themselves so they can self rule gaza. This would get rid of the radicals there, it will also foster a change in ideology towards the Isrealies......
printer
Well-Known Member
"Cast doubt on some of Israel's account."
Sure, I was not too blown over by the conversation, made up my mind before it and then just saw it as one piece of the puzzle. On the doppler effect, In another life, sound engineer of sorts. The distance the camera was away from the impact, 150 meters is 500 feet. Let us say the missile is moving at 500 f/s. That means that from the time the missile passes overhead and then impacts is one second. I listened to it a number of times at 1/4 speed. What we do not see in the video is the trajectory of the missile. In the other video that we do see it, it gets hit by something altering its path or from your CNN video, the missile had a flameout. Given the non-trajectory path the missile took you could surmise it was not moving as fast after it lost propulsion than when it was being pushed along. And what would happen to the sound if the rocket slowed down?
That is one problem with making up your mind with only one piece of information. You have to take a step back and look at all the bits and pieces to determine what happened.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
They must take control of Gaza, even if temporarily and clean out the local Hamas as humanly as they can with a minimum of conventional airpower. While they do this, they must watch their backs in the north, because Iran will be next after they take care of business locally. The best way to deal with Russia is to support Ukraine and use their considerable lobbying power to get Joe to designate Russia a state sponsor of terrorism. That would allow the confiscation of both public and private Russian money in America and maybe even the UK and there is a lot of Russian cash and assets abroad. That would be real revenge on Russia and not kill a single soldier, but it would make Trump and the magats lose their minds, Vlad and his oligarchs too. Ukraine would get hundreds of billions or more and Russia would be very screwed. Israel makes advanced weapons systems and perhaps Ukraine would buy some with the cash and buy American too of course.
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
I don't think relying on a terrorist organization to give up is a reasonable plan to minimize civilian casualties. The only chance of reducing death and suffering is the belief that Israel will see the humanitarian crisis and will do what is necessary and adjust tactics. I fully understand it is not fair to expect Israel to fight following the rules while Hamas is not held to the same standard, so unless the belief is that this fight is the final one to bring lasting peace, is this battle worth losing the war?
Two points of view, both Jewish Israelis with experience in government, comments from after the attack - who would you support more in any future conflict?
Example 1:
"I have to condemn totally, with no reservation, of course, the terrible slaughter that Hamas carried out against innocent civilians in the south of Israel. There was no justification for such a massacre,"
"Having been saying that, there's no justification for the carnage that Israel carries out at the moment. Because those who are harmed, assaulted and killed [are] mostly innocent civilians."
But what does a peaceful solution look like when we're talking about attacks like these, the horrors you've described? You and so many others have lost loved ones. And we know there are still hostages being held. What, realistically, should Israel do?
The war should be ended because people — the vast majority of people who will pay the price, Israelis and Palestinians — are innocent civilians that only want to live. Including babies and small kids, small children. Israelis and Palestinians, they should live in security and peace. War doesn't deliver that.
It will only deliver more revenge, more violence. That circle should be ended.
It won't deliver security. And I believe that even the Israeli government knows that. But it is too busy in revenge.
Example 2:
“In order for us to be able to [achieve our military goals] in Gaza, we need abilities and we need time,” Cohen told Kan public radio. “The element of time is critical — right now Gaza is under siege… and I have said we should not ‘blink’ on that.”
Cohen said he views the government’s decision on Sunday to restart water flow to the southern part of the Strip as “blinking… if it’s due to international pressure.”
“International pressure doesn’t understand that civilians from Gaza, civilians, not just Hamas terrorists… took part in the abominable murders of children, babies and women.”
The former Mossad chief said that the government and the military must take “the most practical approach to defeating Hamas rule,” adding that “the previous state of affairs will never return.”
Ex-Mossad chief: Israel should not bow to global pressure to end Gaza siege
Yossi Cohen says world doesn't understand that civilians in Strip also 'took part in abominable murders of children, babies and women'; says water, basics should be allowed in
www.timesofisrael.com
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
There are two million civilians in the Gaza Strip. The IDF has 170,000 active and 495,000 reserve personnel. How do you propose they do what you say? I can't imagine the operation you suggest being humane.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Israel can defeat Gaza militarily, that is certain. As we saw in Iraq, blowing up shit is the easy part. The occupation was a lost cause before it even started. Bush jr expected the people of Iraq to greet the US Army with flowers. But one does not win the hearts and minds of a people by military means.