TRUMP CONVICTED

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
It's all opinion at this point, the articles too, pro and con and there have been several recently of note in the public forum, mostly by experts in the field. The SCOTUS will settle it, but when, how and over what. If they refuse to hear a case over the primaries or it doesn't make it that far, Trump will run in the GOP primaries and probably win despite being on trial and even convicted over J6. Trump and Biden have been sitting at 46% for a while now, its early days, but considering Trump's history and legal problems it is terrifying. When we know about the 14th is import and what they decide or don't about the GOP primaries will be determinative of a lot of other things moving forward.
I agree that it is all opinion. I do find myself hoping for more conciseness and less repetitive fortune telling. That too is opinion. My noodge about your style and sometimes unique logic is not an assault on your character, in case that needs to be said.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I agree that it is all opinion. I do find myself hoping for more conciseness and less repetitive fortune telling. That too is opinion. My noodge about your style and sometimes unique logic is not an assault on your character, in case that needs to be said.
We can disagree, but I post a lot of articles to stimulate conversation, criticism and opinion. To inform too, but most people are included into the same news stream. Considering the situation, I would expect politics to be livelier and the site impressions depend on the posts. My views on the 14th are evolving too, but it seems cut and dried to me, except for the primaries issue. This is more entertainment than prophesy, I don't mind being wrong on predicting future events, nobody has much luck at it.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
More news on the 14th as it gains momentum, it will be interesting to see if the republican senators back this or will, not the ones running in 24! They and Mitch want Trump gone ASAP from their primaries and let the legal system take him but will only speak up if they absolutely have to. If the SCOTUS does it, they have clean hands and a wide-open primary.


BREAKING: Donald Trump is hit with more devastating news as a prominent Democratic Senator comes out in favor of banning Trump from the ballot under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment — which bans insurrectionists from holding office ever again.

In a bombshell new interview, Senator Tim Kaine declared that “there’s a powerful argument to be made” for banning Trump under the 14th Amendment” because “the language of the amendment is specific: If you give aid and comfort to those who engage in an insurrection against the Constitution of the United States — it doesn’t say against the United States, it says against the Constitution. In my view, the attack on the Capitol that day was designed for a particular purpose — and that was to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power as is laid out in the Constitution.”

Senator Tim Kaine couldn’t be more right. Trump fits the intention of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment like a glove — so the Constitution demands that he be exiled from our political system.

Senator Kaine is now the highest profile Democrat to throw his weight behind banning Trump, the latest sign that the idea is gaining steam on Capitol Hill.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
He says sooner and I think we should know one way or another by the primaries, the SCOTUS would not rule on the primaries without taking the general election into consideration. They don't have the luxury of waiting for a conviction over J6 next spring but will need to act before the republican primaries begin, one way or another. They could declare Trump disqualified from the primaries and that's it.

The question is one of breaking an oath to protect and defend the constitution, not the United States. Trump impeded the functioning of the US constitution, with a violent attack on the congress preventing it from carrying out its constitutional duty of the peaceful transfer of power. He tried to overturn the constitutional order and in doing so violated and attacked the constitution. He even tried to choke his SS detail in an attempt to lead the insurrection against the constitution and aided by delaying the response for hours and gave comfort by his words when he did finally tell them to go home and clear the capitol building, but the national guard had arrived by then along with police reinforcements. He is guilty as sin under the terms of article 3 of the 14th. Remember much of the structure of the constitution and the division of powers was specifically designed to deal with men like Trump, Washington mentioned it himself. The 14th is a later postbellum addition, but it fits Trump like a glove and is in line with the intentions of the original founders when it comes to overturning the constitution and trying to seize the power of the state as a dictator, They lived in the time of the French revolution and the rise of Napolean.

 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
More news on the 14th as it gains momentum, it will be interesting to see if the republican senators back this or will, not the ones running in 24! They and Mitch want Trump gone ASAP from their primaries and let the legal system take him but will only speak up if they absolutely have to. If the SCOTUS does it, they have clean hands and a wide-open primary.


BREAKING: Donald Trump is hit with more devastating news as a prominent Democratic Senator comes out in favor of banning Trump from the ballot under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment — which bans insurrectionists from holding office ever again.

In a bombshell new interview, Senator Tim Kaine declared that “there’s a powerful argument to be made” for banning Trump under the 14th Amendment” because “the language of the amendment is specific: If you give aid and comfort to those who engage in an insurrection against the Constitution of the United States — it doesn’t say against the United States, it says against the Constitution. In my view, the attack on the Capitol that day was designed for a particular purpose — and that was to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power as is laid out in the Constitution.”

Senator Tim Kaine couldn’t be more right. Trump fits the intention of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment like a glove — so the Constitution demands that he be exiled from our political system.

Senator Kaine is now the highest profile Democrat to throw his weight behind banning Trump, the latest sign that the idea is gaining steam on Capitol Hill.
I agree with Kaine in principle. However, it hinges on the procedural end of things. While I don’t know much about it, my best guess is that it will shake out of the civil suits being brought in some states, and the inevitable countersuits. My call: it must rise through the appellate system and arrive at the Supreme Courtyard by Crow and Leo. Then we will probably have clarity. For now, it’s up in the air … but promises to be the greatest show on earth for those of us not in a war zone or other disaster area.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
More news on the 14th as it gains momentum, it will be interesting to see if the republican senators back this or will, not the ones running in 24! They and Mitch want Trump gone ASAP from their primaries and let the legal system take him but will only speak up if they absolutely have to. If the SCOTUS does it, they have clean hands and a wide-open primary.


BREAKING: Donald Trump is hit with more devastating news as a prominent Democratic Senator comes out in favor of banning Trump from the ballot under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment — which bans insurrectionists from holding office ever again.

In a bombshell new interview, Senator Tim Kaine declared that “there’s a powerful argument to be made” for banning Trump under the 14th Amendment” because “the language of the amendment is specific: If you give aid and comfort to those who engage in an insurrection against the Constitution of the United States — it doesn’t say against the United States, it says against the Constitution. In my view, the attack on the Capitol that day was designed for a particular purpose — and that was to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power as is laid out in the Constitution.”

Senator Tim Kaine couldn’t be more right. Trump fits the intention of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment like a glove — so the Constitution demands that he be exiled from our political system.

Senator Kaine is now the highest profile Democrat to throw his weight behind banning Trump, the latest sign that the idea is gaining steam on Capitol Hill.
I do want to make a comment about “the [case for the] 14th gaining momentum”.

The only thing I see gaining momentum in context is sentiment. Imo that panders to the same journalistic debasement that has them presenting polls as somehow substantive.

I suggest not condoning or enabling “how do you feel?” reporting. It only interferes with the presentation of known or surmised fact.

Only one poll matters, and they mail out a ballot for that one.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I do want to make a comment about “the [case for the] 14th gaining momentum”.

The only thing I see gaining momentum in context is sentiment. Imo that panders to the same journalistic debasement that has them presenting polls as somehow substantive.

I suggest not condoning or enabling “how do you feel?” reporting. It only interferes with the presentation of known or surmised fact.

Only one poll matters, and they mail out a ballot for that one.
How people feel motivates them to action, just look at the Trumpers and this is no different, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I watch MSNBC and it is often mentioned there and on CNN. Do you think many in the republican establishment want this resolved before the democrats do, even though it is mostly democrats and some conservatives making noises. What are guys like Karl Rove doing behind the scenes, these are people skilled at making noise, though Karl might lurk in the shadows, and it would be suicide for most republicans to say a peep. Except for the Mormon Prince Mitt, he might tout the 14th for the party since he's pretty well bullet proof (metaphorically speaking) and is safe in his Utah fortress. It is still early, several months until the GOP primary, so the republicans aren't panicking yet. The lawsuits will continue to be filed and the idea of a disqualified candidate harming other GOP candidates might be the wedge for the primaries and ask for a finding on the general election at least when the case comes up the food chain.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
How people feel motivates them to action, just look at the Trumpers and this is no different, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I watch MSNBC and it is often mentioned there and on CNN. Do you think many in the republican establishment want this resolved before the democrats do, even though it is mostly democrats and some conservatives making noises. What are guys like Karl Rove doing behind the scenes, these are people skilled at making noise, though Karl might lurk in the shadows, and it would be suicide for most republicans to say a peep. Except for the Mormon Prince Mitt, he might tout the 14th for the party since he's pretty well bullet proof (metaphorically speaking) and is safe in his Utah fortress. It is still early, several months until the GOP primary, so the republicans aren't panicking yet. The lawsuits will continue to be filed and the idea of a disqualified candidate harming other GOP candidates might be the wedge for the primaries and ask for a finding on the general election at least when the case comes up the food chain.
Unless I misunderstand, I see you defending one of the worst trends in modern journalism. Treating how people feel as news leads straight to Jerry Springer.

I’d like there to be at least some major media outlets who do not pander and poll. That shit uses up useful bandwidth, and it leads to a misrepresentation of what news is.

Ethical journalists bring us the facts of the matter. They leave sentiment to the bottomfeeders like Springer or the late unlamented Carlson.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Unless I misunderstand, I see you defending one of the worst trends in modern journalism. Treating how people feel as news leads straight to Jerry Springer.

I’d like there to be at least some major media outlets who do not pander and poll. That shit uses up useful bandwidth, and it leads to a misrepresentation of what news is.

Ethical journalists bring us the facts of the matter. They leave sentiment to the bottomfeeders like Springer or the late unlamented Carlson.
The way we humans work is by feelings which lead to more complex socially based emotions, it all starts with instinctive or conditioned attraction or repulsion and goes right back to fish, approach food and sex, avoid danger and unpleasantness. Our word for emotion comes from the Latin emovre, to stir or move as in motivate, emotions cause actions and thinking is used most of the time to rationalize feelings. Fear motivates us to action the most after hunger and both are feelings, so is cold caused by lack of shelter. First come feelings and then more complex socially based emotions, thinking and reasoning come last. Journalism is also in the business of making money as well as it's higher pursuits it has other more mundane ones that pay. The brain is structured like a layer cake with the reptilian brain at its base, nature doesn't throw much away, but adds to it. Our behavior individually and socially is a reflection of this evolutionary neuro morphology.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
The way we humans work is by feelings which lead to more complex socially based emotions, it all starts with instinctive or conditioned attraction or repulsion and goes right back to fish, approach food and sex, avoid danger and unpleasantness. Our word for emotion comes from the Latin emovre, to stir or move as in motivate, emotions cause actions and thinking is used most of the time to rationalize feelings. Fear motivates us to action the most after hunger and both are feelings, so is cold caused by lack of shelter. First come feelings and then more complex socially based emotions, thinking and reasoning come last. Journalism is also in the business of making money as well as it's higher pursuits it has other more mundane ones that pay. The brain is structured like a layer cake with the reptilian brain at its base, nature doesn't throw much away, but adds to it. Our behavior individually and socially is a reflection of this evolutionary neuro morphology.
you lost me right there. It’s not nearly so simple.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
you lost me right there. It’s not nearly so simple.
It was a general overview, of course we are more complex as is our social evolution. But the basic model of feelings (felt in the body, think of a cat) and more complex socially based emotions are built on those base feelings, thinking is most often used (or abused) to rationalize feelings. Feelings and emotion also motivate us the most, even if you are solving complex equations as a scientist with one part of your brain another gets a thrill of pleasure from the work. There is a feeling that they get when they make a new discovery and it is described in emotional terms, the pleasure pay off, Science is a human activity and much of the motivation is based on feelings and socially based emotions, not just curiosity about nature. If a bear is chasing yer ass, you will be motivated to action by fear and terror!
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
It was a general overview, of course we are more complex as is our social evolution. But the basic model of feelings (felt in the body, think of a cat) and more complex socially based emotions are built on those base feelings, thinking is most often used (or abused) to rationalize feelings. Feelings and emotion also motivate us the most, even if you are solving complex equations as a scientist with one part of your brain another gets a thrill of pleasure from the work. There is a feeling that they get when they make a new discovery and it is described in emotional terms, the pleasure pay off, Science is a human activity and much of the motivation is based on feelings and socially based emotions, not just curiosity about nature. If a bear is chasing yer ass, you will be motivated to action by fear and terror!
Perhaps, but the far more interesting question to me is (once motivated) how will you choose and implement a plan of action?

Bad journalist: Tell us how that felt

Good journalist: Then what did you do
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Perhaps, but the far more interesting question to me is (once motivated) how will you choose and implement a plan of action?

Bad journalist: Tell us how that felt

Good journalist: Then what did you do
I'm all for reason and logic controlling our affairs based on facts, but I recognize that humans are not rational animals, they are social animals and there are those on the right that use these facts to manipulate them to harm themselves and the country. Enrage to engage is standard operating procedure. Our feelings operate by controlling our perception, even alter our mental functioning and the soup of hormones coursing through our blood plays its part to predispose us.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I'm all for reason and logic controlling our affairs based on facts, but I recognize that humans are not rational animals, they are social animals and there are those on the right that use these facts to manipulate them to harm themselves and the country. Enrage to engage is standard operating procedure. Our feelings operate by controlling our perception, even alter our mental functioning and the soup of hormones coursing through our blood plays its part to predispose us.
You’re not connecting the dots to completion. In stopping short, you’re not addressing the inherent harm of journalism that treats sentiment as news. You and I both know populists and demagogues exploit the ability of many of us to substitute feeling for thought. It is the ethical duty of nonsensationalist journalists to lay the cognitive disconnect bare and issue the warning. They’re generally not. What to do about it?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
You’re not connecting the dots to completion. In stopping short, you’re not addressing the inherent harm of journalism that treats sentiment as news. You and I both know populists and demagogues exploit the ability of many of us to substitute feeling for thought. It is the ethical duty of nonsensationalist journalists to lay the cognitive disconnect bare and issue the warning. They’re generally not. What to do about it?
It depends, the behavior ranges from click bait to the rantings of demigods and propaganda. We generally have free speech, but profanity is not allowed simply because it offends some, lies are more lethal and harmful, free speech is really about ideas and truth, we as a society try to suppress lying, but it is only socially sanctioned except under oath. People are emotional beings and if you want to sell a product or narrative to them then you appeal to their emotions first and their logic second, hearts and minds with hearts coming before minds. The beautiful woman in the car they are trying to sell you won't sleep with you, but she sure gets yer attention. Nobody extolls the virtues of the product anymore, they sell the image of pleasure and happiness.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

BREAKING: Arizona Secretary of State on the process for a Trump disqualification

107,504 views Sep 4, 2023 Interviews with Brian Tyler Cohen
INTERVIEW: Brian interviews Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Fontes about the process that he's considering regarding disqualifying Trump from the ballot, how the courts will play into this, and what the deadline is for a decision.
 

sunni

Administrator
Staff member
weve gone from discussion to nit picking peoples posts and underhanded comments about personal people
please stop
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Perhaps it is a failure of imagination, but I see no remedy, education doesn't work for many, no matter how well it is done, but we have to try. Even intelligent people are made stupid by strong feelings brought on by learned conditioning, racism and bigotry literally make ya stupid and shut down parts of the brain. Narcissists and sociopaths roam among us and are always looks for a grift and to exploit the stupid, Trump is an example of this. Many people want news that confirms their biases, as foxnews found out when they called the election for Biden. We can rage against the machine, but exactly how? Ya can't uproot racist subcultures in America and such bullshit is taught, though hate speech and crimes laws help, so do human rights commissions like we have in Canada and that would make most red states shit bricks.
It is learned conditioning. The members of the Greatest Generation grew up into a hard world with limited opportunities for idle entertainment, and with penalties for not learning the foundations to compete for the good things in life.

I am not advocating a return to a world like that. I do not embrace one of the uglier planks of today’s right: “work or starve”. But that hard world bred some amazing people.

I wish there were a way to bring out solid character without undue adversity. I don’t see it.

But I do believe that the profession of journalism is in a unique place and carries a peculiar moral or ethical burden. Teachers come closest; the two have a disproportionate effect on our individual and societal outlooks.

Journalists can do it easy — or they can do it right. Nobody has found a way to compel the second; it must come from the culture of the employer and the character of the leader. We see how corrosive Murdochs have been. But they are fabulously rich. Crap journalism pays.

A secondary vicious spiral centers on our unwillingness to prosecute criminal captains of industry and finance. Our society is immunocompromised.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It is learned conditioning. The members of the Greatest Generation grew up into a hard world with limited opportunities for idle entertainment, and with penalties for not learning the foundations to compete for the good things in life.

I am not advocating a return to a world like that. I do not embrace one of the uglier planks of today’s right: “work or starve”. But that hard world bred some amazing people.

I wish there were a way to bring out solid character without undue adversity. I don’t see it.

But I do believe that the profession of journalism is in a unique place and carries a peculiar moral or ethical burden. Teachers come closest; the two have a disproportionate effect on our individual and societal outlooks.

Journalists can do it easy — or they can do it right. Nobody has found a way to compel the second; it must come from the culture of the employer and the character of the leader. We see how corrosive Murdochs have been. But they are fabulously rich. Crap journalism pays.

A secondary vicious spiral centers on our unwillingness to prosecute criminal captains of industry and finance. Our society is immunocompromised.
If you can disperse the right and make them powerless roaming the political wilderness, then America can progress on many fronts and so can Canada too. They have nothing to offer to the future, but pine for a past that never really was except for white Christian social and political domination. Journalism is a reflection of the society and guys like Hurst, preceded Rupert Murdock and even started wars with sensationalist yellow journalism. It sold papers, what can I say.
 
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