The Junk Drawer

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
America is a flawed liberal democracy and I have listed the various flaws of a 240-year-old constitution here many times, one trait of liberal democracies is they evolve, like those in the UK and Europe. We are part of an evolving historic process, not the finished article, the world is not perfect, and neither are people. The flaws in the American system of governance are more apparent with the advent of Trump.

As for a democratic country being right leaning, it is the democratic will of the people and liberal democracies range from socialist to more capitalist economic systems. We can hold referendums here, but don't do it on a national level, though provinces do have them from time to time.

I will tell you something though, the extreme left is as dead as the extreme right in today's world, there will need to be a middle way.
America is an illiberal democracy. The extreme Right is absolutely anything but dead; witness the political careers of such figures as DeSantis, Abbott and even Trump.

The Left has been killed by long standing actions against them by elements both inside and outside big business and government, precisely because their ideology presents a threat to their power.

High minded lectures about "the will of the people" in America ignore the fact that our government is neither representative nor democratic. Any fool with half a brain can see that money controls access to power, including setting up ever more roadblocks to anyone not part of the corrupt duopoly.

We are in deep, deep trouble and if fiddling at the margins was ever going to be proven effective, it has certainly had its chances.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
I got heart problems from my booster (there's no other explanation and yes I've seen a specialist) and so I'm done taking shots.

I recommend vitamin D to reduce the chances of more severe consequences of COVID should anyone be exposed.
Sorry to here about your heart problem. A few friends have had some issues. One had Moderna and had really bad reactions that require them to be in hospital for a few days. They swore it couldn't of been the vaccination so she went and got a booster months later and same shit happened. No more for her or her family.
I've had 3 shots of the Pfizer and no plans to have anymore shots at this stage.

Doctor actually wants me to have a CT scan of my heart as a precaution. I wonder if that's becoming more common?
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
I will tell you something though, the extreme left is as dead as the extreme right in today's world, there will need to be a middle way.
Extreme right is very prevalent in todays world. See Israel as a prime example.

Most countries that are not already social democratic will struggle to become one in todays right wing world.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Sorry to here about your heart problem. A few friends have had some issues. One had Moderna and had really bad reactions that require them to be in hospital for a few days. They swore it couldn't of been the vaccination so she went and got a booster months later and same shit happened. No more for her or her family.
I've had 3 shots of the Pfizer and no plans to have anymore shots at this stage.

Doctor actually wants me to have a CT scan of my heart as a precaution. I wonder if that's becoming more common?
I got the Pfizer vaccine originally, no problems. I also had what may well have been COVID. Six months later, I got the Moderna and shortly after I had chest pains and I went to the ER. Scans and EKG were fine and I was given a clean bill of health with a diagnosis of a "strong heart" FWIW.

Funny thing, though; some half dozen people in the ER all told me that I had done exactly the right thing and they wish more people would have. Such pointed comments led me to think there was more to the story they didn't feel they could share.

In any case, I'm done with the shots. mRNA vaccines have far too many documented issues to be trustworthy IMHO and until that changes, I won't consider them.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Extreme right is very prevalent in todays world. See Israel as a prime example.

Most countries that are not already social democratic will struggle to become one in todays right wing world.
The trend in the Western world is very much to the hard right, isn't it? Latin America seems to be headed the other way and Africa is very much in play, given the recent headlines out of Niger.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
America is an illiberal democracy. The extreme Right is absolutely anything but dead; witness the political careers of such figures as DeSantis, Abbott and even Trump.

The Left has been killed by long standing actions against them by elements both inside and outside big business and government, precisely because their ideology presents a threat to their power.

High minded lectures about "the will of the people" in America ignore the fact that our government is neither representative nor democratic. Any fool with half a brain can see that money controls access to power, including setting up ever more roadblocks to anyone not part of the corrupt duopoly.

We are in deep, deep trouble and if fiddling at the margins was ever going to be proven effective, it has certainly had its chances.
America has always been on the edge of fascism and when they talk about the ongoing struggle for liberty, they weren't just talking about Putin, the are talking about domestic enemies like magats and fascists. The constitution and rule of law define what it means to be an American and though flawed, it was the founding ethos of the nation and still is, though nobody lives up to their ideals. A look at the polls should inform you that America is close to losing its somewhat flawed democracy and its problem is it is not democratic enough or reflects the true will of the majority of the people. Technology is another problem spreading lies and disinformation that many swallow and it breeds cynicism, it also makes it easy to deliver death threats to public and election officials. In America the electoral college elects the president, not the popular vote. Congress is gerrymandered mostly by the republicans and the senate represents geography, not people. However, the idea is to work towards a more perfect union and democracy makes that possible. It is the constitution that makes America a liberal democracy, but like the law some don't want to obey it, or the law and Trump wants to destroy both.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Extreme right is very prevalent in todays world. See Israel as a prime example.

Most countries that are not already social democratic will struggle to become one in todays right wing world.
The extreme right in Israel is the religious right and they tend to have a lot of kids while the secular Israelis follow the same demographic pattern as the developed west. It is their increased numbers over the years that is giving them political power and it is phenomena particular to that place. In Europe and elsewhere it is migration that is causing a right-wing reaction. Many cultures in Europe are small with a few million speaking some languages, so they are more sensitive to these issues than the massive global Anglo culture which is dominate at the moment.

It is mostly xenophobia and bigotry driving the right, the economic philosophy is dead with today's great imbalance in wealth distribution, which is causing economic problems, nobody has any money, even governments, yet billionaires have been making off like bandits for decades. The super rich finance the right and want political gridlock in America so they won't have to pay taxes, the republicans con the base with racism, religion and xenophobia, while serving the rich with tax cuts and reducing or eliminating social services. Social services are a way to redistribute wealth along with taxing the rich and having an international treaty to do so like Biden wants.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
America has always been on the edge of fascism and when they talk about the ongoing struggle for liberty, they weren't just talking about Putin, the are talking about domestic enemies like magats and fascists. The constitution and rule of law define what it means to be an American and though flawed, it was the founding ethos of the nation and still is, though nobody lives up to their ideals. A look at the polls should inform you that America is close to losing its somewhat flawed democracy and its problem is it is not democratic enough or reflects the true will of the majority of the people. Technology is another problem spreading lies and disinformation that many swallow and it breeds cynicism, it also makes it easy to deliver death threats to public and election officials. In America the electoral college elects the president, not the popular vote. Congress is gerrymandered mostly by the republicans and the senate represents geography, not people. However, the idea is to work towards a more perfect union and democracy makes that possible. It is the constitution that makes America a liberal democracy, but like the law some don't want to obey it, or the law and Trump wants to destroy both.
Not sure what you're getting at here?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I got the Pfizer vaccine originally, no problems. I also had what may well have been COVID. Six months later, I got the Moderna and shortly after I had chest pains and I went to the ER. Scans and EKG were fine and I was given a clean bill of health with a diagnosis of a "strong heart" FWIW.

Funny thing, though; some half dozen people in the ER all told me that I had done exactly the right thing and they wish more people would have. Such pointed comments led me to think there was more to the story they didn't feel they could share.

In any case, I'm done with the shots. mRNA vaccines have far too many documented issues to be trustworthy IMHO and until that changes, I won't consider them.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Not sure what you're getting at here?
I pretty well spelled it out. Capitalism corrupts democracy, it aways has, but there are ways to reduce its pernicious effects as some countries demonstrate. Hate bigotry and religion are other factors that tend to fuck up liberal democracies and the rich use these elements to divide and conquer the people. The wealthy people also have the financial resources to run for office and if government wants anything done like in war, it is industry and certain key people who are able to provide it. Industry should be the horse that draws the cart of government with the politicians driving, but too often the horse drives the cart, and the people pull the wagon. Corruption is sand in the gears of government and too often bigotry, ignorance and stupidity enable it, look at the number of grifters the republicans have elected FFS.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
The extreme right in Israel is the religious right and they tend to have a lot of kids while the secular Israelis follow the same demographic pattern as the developed west. It is their increased numbers over the years that is giving them political power and it is phenomena particular to that place. In Europe and elsewhere it is migration that is causing a right-wing reaction. Many cultures in Europe are small with a few million speaking some languages, so they are more sensitive to these issues than the massive global Anglo culture which is dominate at the moment.

It is mostly xenophobia and bigotry driving the right, the economic philosophy is dead with today's great imbalance in wealth distribution, which is causing economic problems, nobody has any money, even governments, yet billionaires have been making off like bandits for decades. The super rich finance the right and want political gridlock in America so they won't have to pay taxes, the republicans con the base with racism, religion and xenophobia, while serving the rich with tax cuts and reducing or eliminating social services. Social services are a way to redistribute wealth along with taxing the rich and having an international treaty to do so like Biden wants.
Far right Europe looks to be When not IF. Which makes a Far Right NATO something to think about.. That could easily go WW1 like really quick.

In Germany, support for the hard-right AfD is surging. Far-right parties are also either in government or supporting the government from within parliament in Italy, Poland, Finland and Sweden. Maybe also the Netherlands?

Take the issue of Ukraine and Western Balkan countries’ accession to the EU. The far-right governments in both Poland and Italy want the union to expand to include these countries. Of course, the expansion of the EU from 27 to 35 or more members will require the European institutions to go through a significant transformation, including a move from unanimous to majority voting as a large and diverse Union cannot function if every country has the right to veto collective decisions.

 
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Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
America is an illiberal democracy. The extreme Right is absolutely anything but dead; witness the political careers of such figures as DeSantis, Abbott and even Trump.

The Left has been killed by long standing actions against them by elements both inside and outside big business and government, precisely because their ideology presents a threat to their power.

High minded lectures about "the will of the people" in America ignore the fact that our government is neither representative nor democratic. Any fool with half a brain can see that money controls access to power, including setting up ever more roadblocks to anyone not part of the corrupt duopoly.

We are in deep, deep trouble and if fiddling at the margins was ever going to be proven effective, it has certainly had its chances.
I was having coffee with my mum last week and we were talking about how America is starved of good options for Presidents and she said basically the same thing as you. Its Pay to Win and changing of the goal posts for the other team if elected. Its like the ACDC song Dirty deeds done dirt cheap but Dirty deeds done for huge fees.

I dont see America getting any left than it currently is- the whole system is against the people and war keeps them employed and occupied.
What would you call America, Centre Right or Right of Centre?
 
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Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
“The school has been closed temporarily,” Heng Ratana said.

Decades after the brutal conflict and a US bombing campaign starting in the 1960s, the country remains among the most heavily bombed and mined in the world.
Cambodia’s civil war lasted until 1975, with the US and what was then North and South Vietnam backing various sides.

The effects of the US bombing campaign and minefields left behind have long been felt in tragic ways, with roughly 20,000 Cambodians killed over the last four decades after stepping on landmines or bombs.



 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I was having coffee with my mum last week and we were talking about how America is starved of good options for Presidents and she said basically the same thing as you. Its Pay to Win and changing of the goal posts for the other team if elected. Its like the ACDC song Dirty deeds done dirt cheap but Dirty deeds done for huge fees.

I dont see America getting any left than it currently is- the whole system is against the people and war keeps them employed and occupied.
What would you call America, Centre Right or Right of Centre?
America is, by any objective standard, far right. We're watching the Overton Window creep far enough rightward to normalize certain aspects of Fascism, such as the removal of hard fight gains for women's rights over their own bodies, the near total lack of limits of accountability over police behavior, ESPECIALLY against racial minorities and the poor, extreme and growing wealth and income inequality, an increasingly abusive attitude towards the less fortunate, the vulnerable, the homeless.
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
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