I dont think I can say I have ever experienced the Medical effects of Different Strains

[PadawanWarrior]

I get what you are saying. Thank you for the response.

Do you have any case studies that prove medicinal benefits for pain from before the US allowed research?

Again thank you for your response

 

[OldMedUser]

I get what you are saying. Thank you for the response.

Do you have any case studies that prove medicinal benefits for pain from before the US allowed research?

Again thank you for your response

Case studies are easy enough to find but I don't have any on hand. I read a lot of stuff about pot and all things connected to it and have for 50 years. A real good book for the history of pot from the earliest uses to the present is Hempology 101, The History and Uses of Cannabis Sativa, 4th Edition by Ted Smith. I have a signed copy and used to have many nice discussions with him at the now defunct Cannabis Culture forums. One of the long time pot warriors on the west coast. Never did meet him in person but there's time yet.

Try out PDFdrive.com and search for 'cannabis' and all sorts of free books pop up. Loads of great stuff on almost any subject you can think about too. 3 different formats for most so something for everybody and the price can't be beat. Free!

 

[OldMedUser]

Ok, cool. Now you have DMSO everywhere and your skin is permeable for all kinds of junk. But this does not work well enough to allow sufficient amounts of cannabinoids to penetrate.
For one, DMSO is no longer used for this purpose because it makes it too permeable for everything. So I advice you to stop using it.
The second point I want to make is about dose. The usual drugs that are applied through the skin are very potent: sex hormones, fentanyl, buprenorphin. All of these are dosed at 100s of micrograms or lower. And this is not by chance but because you cant deliver higher doses through the skin. The active dose for THC is about 100 times that, for CBD it's 1000 times more.
Additionally they have a few other characteristics such as not being too polar or too unpolar. The cannabinoids are too unpolar (fat soluble) to work well. They might penetrate into the skin but won't diffuse out of it on the other side.
The last aspect is regarding the timeline. Diffusion is a slow process. With fentanyl peak plasma concentration (and thus maximum effect) is reached 24 hours after applying the patch. That's representative for all such drugs. If you can feel the effect within half an hour it's placebo. It works too but you dont need DMSO to compromise the barrier function of your skin to get there.

TL;DR

I read it but took it with a grain of salt. It's only used on spots and not slathered all over the place. The area is cleaned well first so contamination is minimized. I'm educated enough to manage this safely and know what works for my needs.

I'm actually getting enough pain relief from the big dose of CBD oil that I don't need the DMSO stuff. The big joint at the base of my left thumb where it meets the wrist swells up and goes all red. Any movement is really painful when it flares up like that. Like gout that way and an hour after using the roll-on it would have settled down a lot and tho still very swollen was way less painful.

Now with a good dose of the CBD oil every night all my joints are much nicer to own. Hands and feet mostly tho any are prone to causing me grief and this started in my 20s in my left hip. Rheumatic fever when I was about 12. Lot of car wrecks and a serious MC crash in '83 buggered up my back pretty good. Buggered it again 3 weeks ago and it's still hurting like a bitch. The joys of getting old.

The THC one seemed to have got rid of a couple of those spots on my forehead but our new nurse practitioner does a hell of a job with that liquid nitrogen spray can of hers. A regular Buck Rogers with that thing. Way better than the q-tip dipped in the shit and held on the spot. Those suckers hurt.

Trying to clean up enough space in the shop or even the mudroom to set up to make a lot of oil. Scored 5gal of ISO from Costco and should have got more but will recover most of it for reuse after purification. Salt it out to get rid of most of the water then fractionally distill it to clean out any tiny amount of residual salt. Don't want any ketone buildup either so that will be taken care of too in all that.

Some fresh frozen bud will get extracted with naphtha tho. I have 4L of that for special projects.

 

[speedwell68]

That sux. Have you used RSO for self treatment at all. I might have something going on with my prostate that way but I don't think so. I've been taking a small dose of RSO nightly for over a year and the last few weeks adding some CBD oil to it as they both work better together and the CBD is great for my joint pains.

Pot can interfere with some chemo drugs tho so any drug that the doc says to not eat grapefruit with can be affected by cannabis. Interferes with an enzyme so you drug levels can either go higher than supposed to or lower. If the doc is aware of your pot use he.she can monitor the drug levels in your blood and adjust as needed. Just went thru this exact subject with my doc yesterday while finding out my brain MRI shows I do not have MS! Now to find out what it is messing me up so had a bunch of blood taken at the lab today for follow-up.

Hope there's a happy ending for you too!

Thanks.

I gave it up until my treatment was over. Thankfully I am now in remission. I have been cancer free for nearly 3 months now.

 

[OldMedUser]

Thanks.

I gave it up until my treatment was over. Thankfully I am now in remission. I have been cancer free for nearly 3 months now.

That must be a relief. I've been lucky so far other than a small patch of squamous carcinoma on my leg removed 30 years a go. Got it all so no other treatment. Fair skinned ginger so burn in minutes and burned lots when I was younger.

Recently lost a friend to breast cancer who turned down chemo and went with RSO, huge amounts, and other holistic type remedies. The cancer ended up in her brain. Lost my oldest little sister in March 2020 to ovarian cancer just at the start of the pandemic so I couldn't have seen her even if I'd travelled out to BC.

I better not start a list here. That's another tough part of getting old is seeing friends drop away. Kinda fun watching them get fat and bald tho.

Glad to hear you beat the reaper!

 

[speedwell68]

That must be a relief. I've been lucky so far other than a small patch of squamous carcinoma on my leg removed 30 years a go. Got it all so no other treatment. Fair skinned ginger so burn in minutes and burned lots when I was younger.

Recently lost a friend to breast cancer who turned down chemo and went with RSO, huge amounts, and other holistic type remedies. The cancer ended up in her brain. Lost my oldest little sister in March 2020 to ovarian cancer just at the start of the pandemic so I couldn't have seen her even if I'd travelled out to BC.

I better not start a list here. That's another tough part of getting old is seeing friends drop away. Kinda fun watching them get fat and bald tho.

Glad to hear you beat the reaper!

Thanks.

TBH surviving it hasn't been good for me mentally. I have a lot of guilt, which I don't understand. It really sucks that you have lost people to cancer, I lost my Grandmother to it and my Uncle, but they were both really old.

What is RSO?

Yep, getting old really sucks n' blows, at the same time.

 

[DrDukePHD]

Your right..they took the pills away and all the dope Is feyntanal..my wife overdosed just last month..this stuff is deadly period.

Man I'm really sorry. I've seen success with pill users safely transitioning over to Kratom. It prevents the worst of dope withdrawals, helps some with pain & you won't overdose. It's not perfect but it's 100x better than the alternative.

I lost an Aunt to fent this year. Lived in a big million dollar home, professional dog breeder/show runner. Had really bad knee pain... pills got cut off > street > Dead.

Govt policies killed our family members. Period.

Drugs need to be legalized & regulated for purity/safety.

 

[Kushash]

That's most likely the placebo (which is very strong for pain and shouldnt be discounted at all) combined with the massaging of the hurt muscle. THC cant penetrate the skin in sufficient amounts to have an effect.

For me I get more pain from smoking (dose dependent). I think it's related to muscles relaxing and my joints being fucked.

If you are feeling more pain from smoking, could it be strain related?
I don't know the science of why topicals works but my experience and the experience of many other members here and friends that I have shared with would all agree it is not a placebo. I only use cannabis, coconut oil, beeswax and lemon for scent in my cream. Something more than a placebo is going on, I have to assume you are talking the science but not talking from experience from having used a potent topical.

 

[Lou66]

If you are feeling more pain from smoking, could it be strain related?
I don't know the science of why topicals works but my experience and the experience of many other members here and friends that I have shared with would all agree it is not a placebo. I only use cannabis, coconut oil, beeswax and lemon for scent in my cream. Something more than a placebo is going on, I have to assume you are talking the science but not talking from experience from having used a potent topical.

How do you know its not placebo? The Placebo effect is larger than 0 and real. It works.
Nowadays you cant even develop new pain killers because in clinical trials becuase the placebo effect appears to be stronger than centuries ago. Clinical trials are an ideal setting for a non pharmacological effect, with a lot of attention to the patient, documenting etc. Placebo and opiates perform the same. So if you say that your ointment has a beneficial effect thats not necessarily related to whatever cannabinoids you put into it but rather to the process of doing something actively.

And yes, I studied this topic. Its nice if you can just discount anything you dont like (like the word placebo). Think about it the other way. You have magic hands that are able to mend illness without using *chemicals*.
I tried to make suppositories and got them to work. The required dose was about 5 times what you need if you just ate it (its basically hash oil, cocoa butter and lecithin). And the mucous membrane is actually meant to absorb stuff, unlike the skin.

 

[Wizzlebiz]

How do you know its not placebo? The Placebo effect is larger than 0 and real. It works.
Nowadays you cant even develop new pain killers because in clinical trials becuase the placebo effect appears to be stronger than centuries ago. Clinical trials are an ideal setting for a non pharmacological effect, with a lot of attention to the patient, documenting etc. Placebo and opiates perform the same. So if you say that your ointment has a beneficial effect thats not necessarily related to whatever cannabinoids you put into it but rather to the process of doing something actively.

And yes, I studied this topic. Its nice if you can just discount anything you dont like (like the word placebo). Think about it the other way. You have magic hands that are able to mend illness without using *chemicals*.
I tried to make suppositories and got them to work. The required dose was about 5 times what you need if you just ate it (its basically hash oil, cocoa butter and lecithin). And the mucous membrane is actually meant to absorb stuff, unlike the skin.

The amount of nerves in the skin is mind boggling. It could easily be a cause of nerve reaction sending signals to the brain to shut shit down. But again I've never experienced it so yea there is that. Lol

 

[Kushash]

How do you know its not placebo? The Placebo effect is larger than 0 and real. It works.
Nowadays you cant even develop new pain killers because in clinical trials becuase the placebo effect appears to be stronger than centuries ago. Clinical trials are an ideal setting for a non pharmacological effect, with a lot of attention to the patient, documenting etc. Placebo and opiates perform the same. So if you say that your ointment has a beneficial effect thats not necessarily related to whatever cannabinoids you put into it but rather to the process of doing something actively.

And yes, I studied this topic. Its nice if you can just discount anything you dont like (like the word placebo). Think about it the other way. You have magic hands that are able to mend illness without using *chemicals*.
I tried to make suppositories and got them to work. The required dose was about 5 times what you need if you just ate it (its basically hash oil, cocoa butter and lecithin). And the mucous membrane is actually meant to absorb stuff, unlike the skin.

I don't know how to reply to your question. I guess everyone who makes a potent topical (something you don't have experience with) are just experiencing a placebo effect.

The amount of nerves in the skin is mind boggling. It could easily be a cause of nerve reaction sending signals to the brain to shut shit down. But again I've never experienced it so yea there is that. Lol

Eventually some members we know will explain the science. Kas come to mind, but I don't want to @ anyone. I figured it was already accepted that topicals work.

 

[DancesWithWeeds]

Just because the US made researching cannabis so hard to do that American researchers gave up trying to jump thru all the hoops doesn't mean research didn't go on elsewhere. The Israelis have done extensive research on pot's medicinal properties and it's huge business for them now.

Here in Canada medpot users are the ones that fought and fell to finally get medical status for pot 20 years ago and when the sky didn't fall Trudeau knew he could get the stoners off the couch to vote for him if he promised to legalize and it worked. Again the sky didn't fall.

It has been PROVEN to have many medicinal uses so maybe you just need to read outside of the American sphere of influence to educate yourself. The US is the main reason pot was made illegal in the first place then forced their values on the rest of the world. When alcohol prohibition was being lifted Harry Anslinger was about to be out of a job so needed another demon to fight and picked pot. Very few people other than Mexican farm workers and black jazz musicians even used pot at the time and he was a huge bigot. But then all the fuss about pot made white kids curious so it's use swelled from there making it even more popular than ever.

Until pot prohibition came along there were hundreds of medical formulas containing cannabis at every drug store and the doctors fought long and hard to prevent prohibition but big pharma was just beginning and didn't want the competition.

That is only a couple of the reasons that pot was made illegal in the first place and it was mostly about money and prejudice.

Follow the money! That covers almost everything in our lives that is f'ed up by greedy soulless bastards everywhere.

Don't forget the textile industry. Dupont didn't want nylon to have to compete with hemp. They were big guns on this.

 

[DancesWithWeeds]

I make my CBD or THC pot into oils then for topical pain relief on specific joints I mix it about 10:1 with DMSO and apply it with a roll-on applicator. Works really well that way. DMSO works by itself for some joint or muscle pain but for me a lot better with some CBD in it. The THC I've used on some of those pre-cancerous spots like on the forehead us old folks get froze with liquid nitrogen at the docs sometimes.

Little 2oz bottle of 90% DMSO at the health food store was $14 but I got an 16oz bottle of 99% at the feed store for only $18. $28 for the same but a gel. Might try mixing some horse de-wormer in there and keep Covid away too.

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I use DMSO, too, about 1 tablespoon per cup of of infused coconut oil. Sorry, @Lou66, but it does work. I do caution anyone that uses DMSO to be clean when using it. It can carry stuff into your skin.

For me, the DMSO in c-oil is the difference between walking with a chain or working my 10 acers like a farmer should.

 

[OldMedUser]

Thanks.

TBH surviving it hasn't been good for me mentally. I have a lot of guilt, which I don't understand. It really sucks that you have lost people to cancer, I lost my Grandmother to it and my Uncle, but they were both really old.

What is RSO?

Yep, getting old really sucks n' blows, at the same time.

RSO is Rick Simpson Oil. Many years ago in BC he started making concentrated pot oil from plants he grew on some property he had to help sick friends. He then published his methods for all to use then the gov't harassment started so he fled the country and was in Spain I believe for a long time. Very simple as you basically soak the pot in a solvent to remove the oils which are in the trichomes, filter and either evaporate the solvent off or reclaim it thru distillation. Unlike oils you make for smoking it has a lot of the other plant constituents so is less of a 'pure' product. It is believed that all the plant's oil soluble cannabinoids, terpenes, esters etc work together in what's called the 'entourage effect' for a more effective medicinal effect.

Big Pharma of course can't abide anyone cutting into their profits and all their lobbying over the last 90 years is one of the big reasons pot has remained illegal but those barriers are falling rapidly around the world. In the US cannabis is still a Schedule 1 drug where nasty drugs reside and considered to have no medicinal value with a strong chance of addiction. We ll know that to not be true but there it is still illegal at the federal level. If it gets moved into Schedule 2 or maybe 3 it will still be considered a dangerous drug and only big pharma will be able market it and profit from it. If it's in a lower schedule then it falls into the realm of over the counter drugs and will be more 'freed'. Don't quote me on the actual schedule # as to it's freedom but it's something like that from what I've read about it. There are many herbs and other things you can get at any health food or drug store that have lots worse side-effects and even chances of death than pot does.

Survivor guilt is definitely a thing and I would urge you to seek out some sort of counselling to help you deal with it. There are groups for meeting up in person or online. Online therapists that can often be accessed for free tho many more that you have to pay tho some go thru insurance. I saw a therapist here for almost two years to help deal with chronic depression stemming from a near fatal hammer attack in my early 20s. Didn't fix the issue but he taught me some coping skills to help me deal with it that were useful. Micro-dosing with magic mushrooms seems to be by far the best thing ever for me and I consider it all but cured now along with my alcoholism that really got bad in the years since the attack.

Just starting another run on the 'shrooms and was planning on taking a cap this morning but glad I didn't. The neighbour's wife called about 2 hours ago and asked my wife to send me over as they had an emergency. Seems George fell off a scaffolding in the shop and seriously hurt himself. I just stayed with him while she got dressed to go and then went up to the end of the driveway to flag down the ambulance when it showed up. Smacked his head pretty bad on the concrete floor and was bleeding through his touque. Possibly some cracked ribs but he managed to drag himself over to the workbench to grab his phone and call his wife in the house so doesn't look like any spinal injury. The local fire rescue guys showed up first so I just stayed out of the way. We're out in the boonies here and the ambulance came from about 45 miles away.

Not my usual Saturday routine.

For sure getting old sucks but the alternative is worse. My mom turned 95 in August and is still chugging along. Lives with my sister about a 20 hour drive from me in Chilliwack, BC. I was adopted so can't count on making it that far, nor I think, would I want to.

 

[OldMedUser]

I use DMSO, too, about 1 tablespoon per cup of of infused coconut oil. Sorry, @Lou66, but it does work. I do caution anyone that uses DMSO to be clean when using it. It can carry stuff into your skin.

For me, the DMSO in c-oil is the difference between walking with a chain or working my 10 acers like a farmer should.

I never thought of adding it to an infused oil. Mine burns for a bit when applied so maybe I'll try diluting it with some MCT oil so it stays liquid in the applicators.

I've only got 7.5 acres and don't work it worth shit. Wife does the chickens and veggie garden but that's being taken over by garlic that makes her a bunch of money every summer. 3000 bulbs waiting for spring out there right now. 14 different types I believe. Sells most of it before it's even out of the ground. She should have started this 20 years ago when we first bought the place and both of us had much better health to work it.

This year's crop coming in. 2440 planted and 2410 harvested.

 

[OldMedUser]

Don't forget the textile industry. Dupont didn't want nylon to have to compete with hemp. They were big guns on this.

There's lots of other players like the Hearst family that didn't want hemp being used for a superior paper when he'd bought up a few million acres of forest land to rape for pulp production. Or Henry Ford who made the body panels and other parts of his early cars with hemp plastic that was lots more resistant to dents and other damage and would never rust tho was biodegradable, sustainable and renewable. His engines were designed to burn hemp or vegetable oil but the fledgling oil industry knocked that out.

With the farm bill passed a while back hemp growing has been made legal all over and will eventually lord over our Canadian efforts tho that is growing rapidly here after floundering along for the last couple decades. Damned hemp processing plant being built not 10 miles from me with a field of hemp even closer that has slammed the brakes on my little outdoor grows. Didn't know why my auto plants were stunted until I started cropping them to find them full of seeds. Oh well I've long supported the industry so can't complain that they picked my area to start this stuff. lol

I've been buying bulk hemp hearts and protein powder for a few years now. Got 16lbs of hearts and 8lbs of the powder 6 months ago and have some of both every day. About 1/4 the price of those half pound bags of hearts found sometimes in the local supermarket.

 

[Kushash]

I don't know how to reply to your question. I guess everyone who makes a potent topical (something you don't have experience with) are just experiencing a placebo effect.

Eventually some members we know will explain the science. Kas come to mind, but I don't want to @ anyone. I figured it was already accepted that topicals work.

I came across this today. I skimmed it and I don't know if topicals were part of the study or if it's reliable info, just sharing the link.

Placebo Response and Media Attention in Randomized Clinical Trials Assessing Cannabis-Based Therapies for Pain: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis | Adolescent Medicine | JAMA Network Open | JAMA Network