On Wealth Redistribution(Socialism)

[stalebiscuit]

Most rich people I know made their money by starting a company. If you own a company, you only pay taxes on profit, so most companies reinvest most of their profits so they pay less taxes. Essentially, they don't pay taxes on the money they're investing. You ever learn anything about the economics of running a business?


I'm not saying we should necessarily give unsuccessful people handouts, just make it easier for anyone to achieve success on their own terms.


I said life shouldn't be first and foremost a competition. Sure, there's a lot of competing in life, but that shouldn't be all there is to life.


Yes, and people like your dad shouldn't have to pay the same tax rate as people like Warren Buffet. My parents were really quite poor as well. But we grew up on a farm and grew most of our own food, so we got along. I admire that idea of not accepting charity, and my parents never applied for Medicaid or the free lunch program even though we could have gotten it easily. My point is if someone like your dad wanted to say, take a course on diesel mechanics so he can make a better wage working for a trucking company, the government should help him do that, perhaps by subsidizing the vocational school. Not by giving him a handout.

Most rich people I know made their money by starting a company. If you own a company, you only pay taxes on profit, so most companies reinvest most of their profits so they pay less taxes. Essentially, they don't pay taxes on the money they're investing. You ever learn anything about the economics of running a business?

thats is a gross mis-understanding

what do you mean you dont pay taxes on money you invest, of course you do, and you run the risk of losing it altogther if the venture goes south

they invest money for-most because its a good idea to not sit on revenue, they would have to pay taxes on it anywhere it sits. the only way companies and the rich get away without paying as many taxes is by donating a chunk of it

if you invest in a company bond, you pay taxes on it. you open a new branch of business, you pay taxes on everything you spend to make it happen. its growth and its good, spending is a good thing as long as you do it right

I'm not saying we should necessarily give unsuccessful people handouts, just make it easier for anyone to achieve success on their own terms.

whats this we? no fuck them, i have my own damn dreams and i dont want to be FORCED TO CARE (see the problem there) its like charity versus taxes, sure my taxes might go to something i could agree with, but the fact is it doesnt matter, cause im forced into it. now i know we need taxes but alot of it is spent to frivolously by RICH LAWMAKERS

I said life shouldn't be first and foremost a competition. Sure, there's a lot of competing in life, but that shouldn't be all there is to life.

its always been a competition, even if its against yourself to better yourself

Yes, and people like your dad shouldn't have to pay the same tax rate as people like Warren Buffet. My parents were really quite poor as well. But we grew up on a farm and grew most of our own food, so we got along. I admire that idea of not accepting charity, and my parents never applied for Medicaid or the free lunch program even though we could have gotten it easily. My point is if someone like your dad wanted to say, take a course on diesel mechanics so he can make a better wage working for a trucking company, the government should help him do that, perhaps by subsidizing the vocational school. Not by giving him a handout.

actually, he went to valdosta technical college to learn how to draft, and paid for it himself while working and supporting kids

my point is simple, it aint about my dad, he did what he was suppose to and im damn proud of him. but more importantly there is this equation

imput=output

meaning you do the work and good things will happen, sure life aint fair and you can still do everything right and still not get to where you want to be, but you can always come damn close

 

[stalebiscuit]

This is what I don't get about rich people. They already have enough. (Define enough) Enough money is the amount it takes to meet all your needs and have some left over for emergencies, be able to put some into savings and retirement, be able to send your kids to any school you want, pay off your home before retirement, drive reasonably nice transportation, dress well, have adequate medical coverage, take at least 3 weeks vacation every year, Oh wait, that is what I was able to do working union jobs, so I guess I was rich. Now how much more does one need?? let's hear it from the rich or as I know them to be, wannabees. Do you really need a lear jet, a 60-90ft yacht, a summer home in the south of France, a 10,000++ square ft. mansion, 10-20 exotic cars??? Clue me in on what you think you really need.

for people to not decide what i need

i dont need a car that goes over 85, seeing as how there i no autoban

i dont need a gunt o defend myself, thats what the cops are for right

i dont need to eat steak or have fast food, i can live off of rice if i have to

but what i really dont need is someone, or especially the government deciding how much is enough

 

[Doctor Pot]

thats is a gross mis-understanding

what do you mean you dont pay taxes on money you invest, of course you do, and you run the risk of losing it altogther if the venture goes south

they invest money for-most because its a good idea to not sit on revenue, they would have to pay taxes on it anywhere it sits. the only way companies and the rich get away without paying as many taxes is by donating a chunk of it

if you invest in a company bond, you pay taxes on it. you open a new branch of business, you pay taxes on everything you spend to make it happen. its growth and its good, spending is a good thing as long as you do it right

A company pays taxes only on PROFIT. Profit is gross income minus expenses. Investments in the future of the company, say, a new branch office, count as expenses, and are not taxed. Individual income taxes don't work like that though.

whats this we? no fuck them, i have my own damn dreams and i dont want to be FORCED TO CARE (see the problem there) its like charity versus taxes, sure my taxes might go to something i could agree with, but the fact is it doesnt matter, cause im forced into it. now i know we need taxes but alot of it is spent to frivolously by RICH LAWMAKERS

What we're trying to avoid are situations like in the early 20th century where people with a lot of potential never accomplished much with their lives because they had to work 16 hours a day just to make ends meet.

its always been a competition, even if its against yourself to better yourself

How is raising kids a competition? I mean I guess parents could look at it like that, and compete with other parents to see who has better kids but that's hardly fair to the kids.

actually, he went to valdosta technical college to learn how to draft, and paid for it himself while working and supporting kids

my point is simple, it aint about my dad, he did what he was suppose to and im damn proud of him. but more importantly there is this equation

imput=output

meaning you do the work and good things will happen, sure life aint fair and you can still do everything right and still not get to where you want to be, but you can always come damn close

Technical colleges are usually government-subsidized. Education there may not be free, but it's usually pretty cheap.

 

[ANC]

Free education of top quality is the only socialist activity you should consider.

I live in a country wehre socialism has been a 12 year long experiment so far, and everything is still going downhill.
The only ones benefitting are in government, their immediate families and poeple who can pay for their favour.

 

[max420thc]

communism is only good for the communist..everyone else gets screwed....liberals are all a bunch of free loaders that can not compete in society..so they vote themselfs hand outs from the public treasury..that the rest of us productive people must pay for..same with these failed companys...we get to pay for some more failure..you know what happens when you start paying for something? you get more of it..everyone is selling failure right now..the problem is..in order to subsidize all this failure..they have to tax the living shit out of the people who have worked hard and done what they are supposed to ..tax the winners..to support the looser's...well..look out folks..more failure is on the way...life is a competition..if you cant compete..the world needs ditch diggers too....

 

[stalebiscuit]

A company pays taxes only on PROFIT. Profit is gross income minus expenses. Investments in the future of the company, say, a new branch office, count as expenses, and are not taxed. Individual income taxes don't work like that though.


What we're trying to avoid are situations like in the early 20th century where people with a lot of potential never accomplished much with their lives because they had to work 16 hours a day just to make ends meet.


How is raising kids a competition? I mean I guess parents could look at it like that, and compete with other parents to see who has better kids but that's hardly fair to the kids.


Technical colleges are usually government-subsidized. Education there may not be free, but it's usually pretty cheap.

A company pays taxes only on PROFIT. Profit is gross income minus expenses. Investments in the future of the company, say, a new branch office, count as expenses, and are not taxed. Individual income taxes don't work like that though.

what do you mean not taxed on the expenses...sure they are, what do you think sales tax is? income taxes on the people they employ, property taxes....sure they are getting the companies revenue taxed directly, but they still pay a shit ton in taxes either way....investing is always a good thing

What we're trying to avoid are situations like in the early 20th century where people with a lot of potential never accomplished much with their lives because they had to work 16 hours a day just to make ends meet.

your joking right? the early 20th century was a huge invention era. who do you think edison and tesla were? ya, just because average joe cant get a college degree doesnt mean hope is lost, your always going to have gifted people go to waste....it just happens, and there isnt anything you or the government can do about it

How is raising kids a competition? I mean I guess parents could look at it like that, and compete with other parents to see who has better kids but that's hardly fair to the kids.

your still looking at it the wrong way....your prize in the competition is life experience and being prepared. its about improving yourself and others around you. thats life, hard work and self sufficiency are key

Technical colleges are usually government-subsidized. Education there may not be free, but it's usually pretty cheap.

was it like that during vietnam? in south georgia.......i think they were cheap anyhow without the government backing

 

[Doctor Pot]

what do you mean not taxed on the expenses...sure they are, what do you think sales tax is? income taxes on the people they employ, property taxes....sure they are getting the companies revenue taxed directly, but they still pay a shit ton in taxes either way....investing is always a good thing

Companies don't pay sales tax on most things they purchase, provided they're raw materials or things they will eventually be selling. Sales tax is paid only by the end user. They do have to pay property taxes, but I was talking about business income taxes. And besides, property taxes pay for things like public infrastructure which the companies use anyway.

My point was that their income tax is based on the difference between their gross income and expenses, not just gross income. For instance, good ol' Joe the Plumber thought Obama was taxing gross income and therefore would raise his taxes, but he was actually taxing net income, which for Joe, wasn't very much and thus wouldn't be taxed at a higher rate.

your joking right? the early 20th century was a huge invention era. who do you think edison and tesla were? ya, just because average joe cant get a college degree doesnt mean hope is lost, your always going to have gifted people go to waste....it just happens, and there isnt anything you or the government can do about it

Yes, there were a few gifted inventors during that time period, but they were hardly indicative of what the situation was for most people. My point is that our society is productive enough that the average person shouldn't have to work 16-hour days in dangerous conditions just to make ends meet.

your still looking at it the wrong way....your prize in the competition is life experience and being prepared. its about improving yourself and others around you. thats life, hard work and self sufficiency are key

It's not a competition if you're not competing against anyone or anything.

was it like that during vietnam? in south georgia.......i think they were cheap anyhow without the government backing

I don't know, I just know there were a lot of job training programs set up during the New Deal, a lot of them are still around now, and where I live, all the vocational schools I know of are government-subsidized.

 

[stalebiscuit]

Companies don't pay sales tax on most things they purchase, provided they're raw materials or things they will eventually be selling. Sales tax is paid only by the end user. They do have to pay property taxes, but I was talking about business income taxes. And besides, property taxes pay for things like public infrastructure which the companies use anyway.

My point was that their income tax is based on the difference between their gross income and expenses, not just gross income. For instance, good ol' Joe the Plumber thought Obama was taxing gross income and therefore would raise his taxes, but he was actually taxing net income, which for Joe, wasn't very much and thus wouldn't be taxed at a higher rate.


Yes, there were a few gifted inventors during that time period, but they were hardly indicative of what the situation was for most people. My point is that our society is productive enough that the average person shouldn't have to work 16-hour days in dangerous conditions just to make ends meet.


It's not a competition if you're not competing against anyone or anything.


I don't know, I just know there were a lot of job training programs set up during the New Deal, a lot of them are still around now, and where I live, all the vocational schools I know of are government-subsidized.

Companies don't pay sales tax on most things they purchase, provided they're raw materials or things they will eventually be selling. Sales tax is paid only by the end user. They do have to pay property taxes, but I was talking about business income taxes. And besides, property taxes pay for things like public infrastructure which the companies use anyway.

what? are you kidding? of course they do. if they buy 5000 glow in the dark rubber lettuce play toys from china, they have to pay shipping, tarriffs, and all sorts of other fees......all of which are taxed in some way or another

and your confused on the income honestly.......sure they dont pay taxes on their profits, their profits are what they have earned after their revenue has been taxed

My point was that their income tax is based on the difference between their gross income and expenses, not just gross income. For instance, good ol' Joe the Plumber thought Obama was taxing gross income and therefore would raise his taxes, but he was actually taxing net income, which for Joe, wasn't very much and thus wouldn't be taxed at a higher rate.

yes it would.....for joe himself it wouldnt be very much...but his business is treated as a person, and its taxed by itself

Yes, there were a few gifted inventors during that time period, but they were hardly indicative of what the situation was for most people. My point is that our society is productive enough that the average person shouldn't have to work 16-hour days in dangerous conditions just to make ends meet.

and they dont anymore, but back in the day they had to do what the had to do

i dont have to go out and kill a sabre-tooth tiger with a fucking rock to feed my family, but cave-men had to do

these days, i have to go to school, work, and be productive and NOT expect free rides from the government to be successful

It's not a competition if you're not competing against anyone or anything.

but you always are. thats loser talk honestly

I don't know, I just know there were a lot of job training programs set up during the New Deal, a lot of them are still around now, and where I live, all the vocational schools I know of are government-subsidized.

thats not even close to the same thing. those were work programs, they have them in high school. a technical college is usually privately run, and if not its just like a regular public college

 

[Doctor Pot]

what? are you kidding? of course they do. if they buy 5000 glow in the dark rubber lettuce play toys from china, they have to pay shipping, tarriffs, and all sorts of other fees......all of which are taxed in some way or another

and your confused on the income honestly.......sure they dont pay taxes on their profits, their profits are what they have earned after their revenue has been taxed

Ok, if you want to call what they have after taxes profit, then they're taxed on net income. I said a company doesn't have to pay sales tax on stuff they buy for resale. Of course there are tariffs, but eliminating these would just put even more American businesses out of business. And true, there are other taxes here and there, but you're assuming businesses get zero return from those taxes. Port fees go toward port maintanence, gas tax goes toward road maintanance, utility tax goes toward infrastructure maintanance, etc.

yes it would.....for joe himself it wouldnt be very much...but his business is treated as a person, and its taxed by itself

No it wouldn't, when he gave the $250,000 figure, he was referring to gross income, which is not what they tax.

and they dont anymore, but back in the day they had to do what the had to do

i dont have to go out and kill a sabre-tooth tiger with a fucking rock to feed my family, but cave-men had to do

In China, the workers currently have to work similar days as Americans did during the early 19th century.

but you always are. thats loser talk honestly

No, you aren't. Say you're married and your goal in life is to raise your family. Who the hell are you competing against? Life isn't a fucking race to the finish, there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[urmomis100]

This is what I don't get about rich people. They already have enough. (Define enough) Enough money is the amount it takes to meet all your needs and have some left over for emergencies, be able to put some into savings and retirement, be able to send your kids to any school you want, pay off your home before retirement, drive reasonably nice transportation, dress well, have adequate medical coverage, take at least 3 weeks vacation every year, Oh wait, that is what I was able to do working union jobs, so I guess I was rich. Now how much more does one need?? let's hear it from the rich or as I know them to be, wannabees. Do you really need a lear jet, a 60-90ft yacht, a summer home in the south of France, a 10,000++ square ft. mansion, 10-20 exotic cars??? Clue me in on what you think you really need.

Ive always wondered the same thing. I suppose their power and prestige really goes to their head.

 

[medicineman]

Ive always wondered the same thing. I suppose their power and prestige really goes to their head.

Absolutely. They see everyone that hasn't made it to their level, as failures, just check the posts on this subject alone. According to them, I'm a liberal scumbag that is sucking the life blood out of them, while the truth is Yeah I'm a fucking liberal, but I worked all my life starting at 10 years old on a farm and ending 6 months after my 62nd birthday. Never relied on government handouts and owned about 10-12 houses, bought and sold, always fed and clothed my kids, no foodstamps, was a productive member of society, Paid my taxes etc. and I'm a fucking liberal scumbag. I just don't get it. I paid into SS since my first paycheck when I was 15, so I feel I'm entitled to that money. Not my fault the government squandered the money, just keep them checks coming. I hope to live to 95, that way I'll collect more than I paid in and all these voracious righties will really have something to bitch about, I'll be sitting in my wheelchair drooling all over my monthly checks.

 

[urmomis100]

Absolutely. They see everyone that hasn't made it to their level, as failures, just check the posts on this subject alone. According to them, I'm a liberal scumbag that is sucking the life blood out of them, while the truth is Yeah I'm a fucking liberal, but I worked all my life starting at 10 years old on a farm and ending 6 months after my 62nd birthday. Never relied on government handouts and owned about 10-12 houses, bought and sold, always fed and clothed my kids, no foodstamps, was a productive member of society, Paid my taxes etc. and I'm a fucking liberal scumbag. I just don't get it. I paid into SS since my first paycheck when I was 15, so I feel I'm entitled to that money. Not my fault the government squandered the money, just keep them checks coming. I hope to live to 95, that way I'll collect more than I paid in and all these voracious righties will really have something to bitch about, I'll be sitting in my wheelchair drooling all over my monthly checks.

one time I was on a plane in a regular seat just a few rows from first class. A little kid looked back and said "dad whats back there" and I heard his dad say "poor people". obviously a rich arrogant ass hole. That pissed me off.

 

[******]

my ? is where between 36 and 39 % does it become socialism or just more right wing bs

 

[stalebiscuit]

Ok, if you want to call what they have after taxes profit, then they're taxed on net income. I said a company doesn't have to pay sales tax on stuff they buy for resale. Of course there are tariffs, but eliminating these would just put even more American businesses out of business. And true, there are other taxes here and there, but you're assuming businesses get zero return from those taxes. Port fees go toward port maintanence, gas tax goes toward road maintanance, utility tax goes toward infrastructure maintanance, etc.


No it wouldn't, when he gave the $250,000 figure, he was referring to gross income, which is not what they tax.


In China, the workers currently have to work similar days as Americans did during the early 19th century.


No, you aren't. Say you're married and your goal in life is to raise your family. Who the hell are you competing against? Life isn't a fucking race to the finish, there's a lot more to it than that.

Ok, if you want to call what they have after taxes profit, then they're taxed on net income. I said a company doesn't have to pay sales tax on stuff they buy for resale. Of course there are tariffs, but eliminating these would just put even more American businesses out of business. And true, there are other taxes here and there, but you're assuming businesses get zero return from those taxes. Port fees go toward port maintanence, gas tax goes toward road maintanance, utility tax goes toward infrastructure maintanance, etc.

a percentage of what they pay in those taxes goes to them.....a very small percent....id say that companies and the rich provide most of the money for public schools, prisons, and welfare

they pay a shit-ton of taxes either way so naturally they would do what they could to get out of them.....by investing more money they still pay taxes, but if you tax them directly there is less growth and less money for everyone in the end.....its a simple idea really

No it wouldn't, when he gave the $250,000 figure, he was referring to gross income, which is not what they tax.

what who taxes, the IRS? perhaps his business if very successful pulled in just over 250,000 dollars, right at the border mark, should he still pay the same amount of taxes for someone pulling in 50,000 in profit? what about 20,000 a year? why does it matter? i thought the government was suppose to hold everyone equal, no prejudice against race, religion, sex, previous nationality, or income.....either way this progressive taxing system (which isnt all that progressive) needs to get the hell out of here

In China, the workers currently have to work similar days as Americans did during the early 19th century.

well.....fuck china i dont care. its their fault for having a government who sees it people as a resource

americans profit from it, the chinese government profits from it, the peope of china.......not so much

honestly i dont care either way

No, you aren't. Say you're married and your goal in life is to raise your family. Who the hell are you competing against? Life isn't a fucking race to the finish, there's a lot more to it than that.

im competing against anything that could come between that, i have to ensure my children are vaccinated, have a proper moral upbringing, make sure they dont become addicted to heavy drugs and alcohol, i need to fight to keep their morals and ethics that i raise them with intact, against everything, i have to fight the schools, the media, the peer pressure as a father

you are always competing whether you realize it or not, if you recognize it you can prevent much hard-ship

its not like im going to shove a leash up my kids ass, but i want them healthy and responsible, and to do that i have to compete against all possible negative influences i can, that includes me being to over-bearing and protective

 

[CrackerJax]

one time I was on a plane in a regular seat just a few rows from first class. A little kid looked back and said "dad whats back there" and I heard his dad say "poor people". obviously a rich arrogant ass hole. That pissed me off.

I usually refer to it as the "cattle car" .. moo




out.

 

[stalebiscuit]

I usually refer to it as the "cattle car" .. moo




out.

im so poor ive never been on a plane


seriously, ive never been on a plane

 

[Seamaiden]

im so poor ive never been on a plane


seriously, ive never been on a plane

Then, buy a ticket to Vegas or something! You've got to try flying at least once in your life. I love to fly.

 

[CrackerJax]

It's hardly expensive.... just hang around a small airport on the weekends and hitch a ride. Pilots are like Jehovahs, always looking to convert the uninitiated....



out.

 

[medicineman]

Then, buy a ticket to Vegas or something! You've got to try flying at least once in your life. I love to fly.

I bought a ticket to Vegas, from Providence R.I., 89 bucks, 2500 miles for 89 bucks, now that's a deal. 3.9 cents a mile. Even the stalebiscuit could afford that. I mean, even a poor boy like myself can afford that, but it was stretching the budget thin.

 

[Seamaiden]

If you had a chance to go to outer space, would you? I would, but it would depend on who's doing the flying. Did you find the beignets?