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[cannabineer]

Back before there was registrations and licensing. You don't think Registrations and licencing laws came before the car do you?

You do love to argue about anything at all don't you.

A right that is not enumerated is not a thing.
It relies on broken doctrine e. g. “natural law” or presumptive rights.

As an example, hydraulic mining is not anyone’s right. It was simply a crime that outran law until law caught up.

 

[Lucky Luke]

A right that is not enumerated is not a thing.
It relies on broken doctrine e. g. “natural law” or presumptive rights.

As an example, hydraulic mining is not anyone’s right. It was simply a crime that outran law until law caught up.

It's pretty simple. You could order you car off Ford. Drive it home or put it together yourself (in some countries the create it came in was the bodywork which was called Coachwork). No registrations and no driving licence required. Just like a horse was and still is. Driving was a right- for anybody. But then the right was taken away by laws and is now a privilege.

Flying drones was once a right but now is becoming a privilege. That's a right we are seeing become a privilege in our own lifetime.

 

[cannabineer]

It's pretty simple. You could order you car off Ford. Drive it home or put it together yourself (in some countries the create it came in was the bodywork) and park it. No registrations and no driving licence required. Just like a horse was and still is. Driving was a right- for anybody. But then the right was taken away by laws and is know a privilege.

I can only find the idea of presumptive rights in a libertarian context. As we both know, libertarianism is based on a set of faulty premises. That disqualifies conclusions relying on the idea. Ergo, a legitimate right must have written legal theory and codification to be recognized.

Consider frontier dwellers. They had fairly unrncumbered practices, such as burning off elemental mercury when working up gold concentrates. They had no formal right to do so, and these days they are properly enjoined from doing so harmful a thing.
What they did was exploit an opportunity in the interval between a region getting populated and its being governed. Libertarians tend to call that an exercise of presumptive or inherent rights, but they are wrong.

As for horses, where (and how, thsnks to animal cruelty laws) they may be ridden is tightly controlled except in the few remaining frontiers. Try to ride or use a horse-drawn vehicle on the way from Long Beach to Pasadena without getting legitimately arrested.

 

[Lucky Luke]

As for horses, where (and how, thsnks to animal cruelty laws) they may be ridden is tightly controlled except in the few remaining frontiers. Try to ride or use a horse-drawn vehicle on the way from Long Beach to Pasadena without getting legitimately arrested.

Here in my state we still have the right to ride a horse or a bicycle on the streets. We haven't lost that to a privilege but im sure sooner or later we will. is talk of registration for bicycles.

 

[cannabineer]

Here in my state we still have the right to ride a horse or a bicycle on the streets. We haven't lost that to a privilege but im sure sooner or later we will. is talk of registration for bicycles.

It is an enumerated right, similar to our cyclists being legal road users. However, just as our cyclists may not use the freeway, I believe the right is circumscribed. The left purple box in the link confirms.

https://www.kentish.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/153416/HorsesCombined.pdf

 

[Lucky Luke]

It is an enumerated right, similar to our cyclists being legal road users. However, just as our cyclists may not use the freeway, I believe the right is circumscribed. The left purple box in the link confirms.

https://www.kentish.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/153416/HorsesCombined.pdf

Cyclists are allowed on our major highway.
Yes they have to obey road rules but as you can see by the yellow highlight in the centre horse riders have the right to use the road. They also have no licence requirement or registration. We often have horses going past our house on our street. The young kids look so high up on some of them! haha.

 

[cannabineer]

Cyclists are allowed on our major highway.
Yes they have to obey road rules but as you can see by the yellow highlight in the centre horse riders have the right to use the road. They also have no licence requirement or registration. We often have horses going past our house on our street. The young kids look so high up on some of them! haha.

It is actually a bit inconvenient for me. The nearest good grocery store is about 13 miles from here, but one mile of that is no bicycles, with fenced government land to the east and impassable terrain to the west. So I am forced to burn fuel to get my goods. Shame. “First world problems.”

 

[Lucky Luke]

It is actually a bit inconvenient for me. The nearest good grocery store is about 13 miles from here, but one mile of that is no bicycles, with fenced government land to the east and impassable terrain to the west. So I am forced to burn fuel to get my goods. Shame. “First world problems.”

Shame your right to ride your bicycle on the road you pay for was removed, Responsible gov would of created a bike lane.

 

[cannabineer]

Shame your right to ride your bicycle on the road you pay for was removed, Responsible gov would of created a bike lane.

No; I agree with government on this point. There is a bike lane of sorts on the two-lane blacktop. But the highway stretch with heavy trucks and with folks going seventy, dual use would cause more grief than good. Locally there is not enough demand to create a protected bike lane on that stretch. One of the compromises desert living brought with it.

 

[Dorian2]

Shame your right to ride your bicycle on the road you pay for was removed, Responsible gov would of created a bike lane.

Fuck that. I hate the bike lanes in my City. Most useless, taxpayer money wasting eyesores on the road. But it was very poorly implemented and thought out. Typical Edmonton. There are bike lanes on roads that I haven't seen a bike on yet. And I understand why. They wouldn't last 5 minutes with the drivers here.

/rant

 

[Lucky Luke]

No; I agree with government on this point. There is a bike lane of sorts on the two-lane blacktop. But the highway stretch with heavy trucks and with folks going seventy, dual use would cause more grief than good. Locally there is not enough demand to create a protected bike lane on that stretch. One of the compromises desert living brought with it.

You agree that they took away your right to use a road that you pay for I'm guessing out of safety I presume. Then they can make it safer.
As previously stated we can ride a bicycle on our major road and for the majority of it the brake down lane along the road allows for plenty of room. Also cars here must pass a bicycle with at least a 1.5 meter (5ft) gap. But when the road narrows and interchanges happen then we have dedicated bicycle lanes so a bike can safely travel to their interchange without dealing with motorised traffic.
Its good social policy and solid infrastructure for the future.
Eg:

Highway bypass produces new Perth bike lanes | Bicycle Network

The Midland Highway project has given local bike riders new off-road and on-road lanes between Perth and the Breadalbane roundabout.

www.bicyclenetwork.com.au

 

[Lucky Luke]

Fuck that. I hate the bike lanes in my City. Most useless, taxpayer money wasting eyesores on the road. But it was very poorly implemented and thought out. Typical Edmonton. There are bike lanes on roads that I haven't seen a bike on yet. And I understand why. They wouldn't last 5 minutes with the drivers here.

/rant

perhaps if it was better thought out and implemented then

 

[cannabineer]

You agree that they took away your right to use a road that you pay for I'm guessing out of safety I presume. Then they can make it safer.
As previously stated we can ride a bicycle on our major road and for the majority of it the brake down lane along the road allows for plenty of room. Also cars here must pass a bicycle with at least a 1.5 meter (5ft) gap. But when the road narrows and interchanges happen then we have dedicated bicycle lanes so a bike can safely travel to their interchange without dealing with motorised traffic.
Its good social policy and solid infrastructure for the future.
Eg:
View attachment 5195566

Highway bypass produces new Perth bike lanes | Bicycle Network

The Midland Highway project has given local bike riders new off-road and on-road lanes between Perth and the Breadalbane roundabout.

www.bicyclenetwork.com.au

No. I never did possess that right. Are we gone full circle? Presumptive rights are not a thing.

 

[Dorian2]

perhaps if it was better thought out and implemented then

Mother nature would have to be part of the meeting for that. This ain't Aussie land up here.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

It's pretty simple. You could order you car off Ford. Drive it home or put it together yourself (in some countries the create it came in was the bodywork which was called Coachwork). No registrations and no driving licence required. Just like a horse was and still is. Driving was a right- for anybody. But then the right was taken away by laws and is now a privilege.

Flying drones was once a right but now is becoming a privilege. That's a right we are seeing become a privilege in our own lifetime.

freedom is a right, and the pursuit of happiness is a right, but so is personal safety.
at first a few rich people had cars as toys, but as they got more popular, it became clear that they had to be regulated in some way.
in 1899 chicago and new york both put restrictions on who could operate a motor vehicle, and where. by 1903, Missouri and Massachusetts both required and issued drivers licenses, and by 1959 all states required exams.
it was never specifically a right to operate a motor vehicle, and once it became clear that regulation was needed, it became a privilege, which can be revoked.

 

[Lucky Luke]

freedom is a right, and the pursuit of happiness is a right, but so is personal safety.
at first a few rich people had cars as toys, but as they got more popular, it became clear that they had to be regulated in some way.
in 1899 chicago and new york both put restrictions on who could operate a motor vehicle, and where. by 1903, Missouri and Massachusetts both required and issued drivers licenses, and by 1959 all states required exams.
it was a (right) to operate a motor vehicle, and once it became clear that regulation was needed, it became a privilege, which can be revoked.

Freedom as a right? That went a long, long time ago. That was early BC? The Australian Aboriginals lost Freedom well before the birth of Christ due to their Rainbow serpent religion(??) and their environmental ways. An example is the totem. If your totem was a brush tail Possum then you were not allowed to kill and eat a Brushtail possum. Ring tail possums were fair game- unless it was your totem. The bible mentions Adam losing his right to harvest and eat an apple.@Rob Roy Your a Freedom advocate when do you think Freedom started to erode?

Personal safety as a right was one of the key arguments PM Howard used to bring in gun laws back in the 90's. Which ironickly caused people to lose their rights to purchase any weapons they wanted to. But some rights are more important to society than others are to individual's.

That's what i said. Driving was a right and now its a privilege. Much like operating drones was a right and now it's becoming a privilege.

Would you like to tell me a Government that didn't take away rights? Which is the point that you three seem to be tiptoeing around for the last few days. Can we all just agree on there isn't and move on? Or did you want to move onto Passports (not free to leave and return to your own country) and paying to renounce your own citizenship. (which if your American pretty much doubled in price lately)?

 

[Lucky Luke]

Mother nature would have to be part of the meeting for that. This ain't Aussie land up here.

Mother nature tends to play a part here to. We are a land of drought and flooding rains after all.
Where are you?

 

[Dorian2]

Mother nature tends to play a part here to. We are a land of drought and flooding rains after all.
Where are you?

North.

 

[Lucky Luke]

North.

Fair enough, Canada gets some severe weather (guessing your not in Norway), not surprising you don't see many cyclists.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Freedom as a right? That went a long, long time ago. That was early BC? The Australian Aboriginals lost Freedom well before the birth of Christ due to their Rainbow serpent religion(??) and their environmental ways. An example is the totem. If your totem was a brush tail Possum then you were not allowed to kill and eat a Brushtail possum. Ring tail possums were fair game- unless it was your totem. The bible mentions Adam losing his right to harvest and eat an apple.@Rob Roy Your a Freedom advocate when do you think Freedom started to erode?

Personal safety as a right was one of the key arguments PM Howard used to bring in gun laws back in the 90's. Which ironickly caused people to lose their rights to purchase any weapons they wanted to. But some rights are more important to society than others are to individual's.

That's what i said. Driving was a right and now its a privilege. Much like operating drones was a right and now it's becoming a privilege.

Would you like to tell me a Government that didn't take away rights? Which is the point that you three seem to be tiptoeing around for the last few days. Can we all just agree on there isn't and move on? Or did you want to move onto Passports (not free to leave and return to your own country) and paying to renounce your own citizenship. (which if your American pretty much doubled in price lately)?

i'm sorry, i can't finish this conversation...you called rob roy in as an "expert"...that leaves me out of the conversation, as i cannot take his opinions on anything seriously, and the fact that you enlisted his aid makes it that much harder for me to take you seriously...