War

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I lived in Idaho the year Pinatubo went off.

We didn't HAVE a summer that year. Cold AF.
1 year....not 10, or 5...1 year...about the worst we have the ability to do to ourselves would be a 4 or 5 year dust cloud...it would probably do the world some good, actually, cool it off, let some of the glaciers refreeze a little, maybe even let some of the ozone layer repair itself...
yeah, i know that it's still bad, and i don't want entire cities of people to be killed, but how long can the world allow that little dictatorial fuck to hold us all hostage with his fucking bombs? i think it's been just about long enough, one way or the other
 

printer

Well-Known Member
1 year....not 10, or 5...1 year...about the worst we have the ability to do to ourselves would be a 4 or 5 year dust cloud...it would probably do the world some good, actually, cool it off, let some of the glaciers refreeze a little, maybe even let some of the ozone layer repair itself...
yeah, i know that it's still bad, and i don't want entire cities of people to be killed, but how long can the world allow that little dictatorial fuck to hold us all hostage with his fucking bombs? i think it's been just about long enough, one way or the other
He can't live forever. He will be gone with the effects hanging around.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes nukes.....
i'm about fucking tired of that word, and the people who use it as an excuse to allow a murderous tyrant to run rampant...he is going to HAVE to be dealt with sooner or later, the later it is, the more chance he has of consolidating any advantages, of making preparations to escape, of setting up more defenses...and he'll still have the same fucking amount of NUKES when we finally do what HAS to be done
first use MUST be theirs.

The Republic is simply not up to a major war. Agent Orange saw to that.

Once top people are indicted, that balance changes. Enough? no idea.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
It has been determined that nuclear winter with current arsenals is not likely, however nobody wants to find out! Nukes are a very bad idea for anybody to be considering. The plan is to garrote Putin slowly in Ukraine where he stuck his neck out, no sudden moves to spook him into leaving or nuking, just bleed the fucker white until he collapses and dies.
can you show me?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
can you show me?
There was some recent research done on it, in light of the drastic reduction of nuclear arsenals after the cold war. I recently read and article by a guy who promoted the idea back in the day. Atmospheric radiation and fallout would be my big concern, nobody will waste nukes on non nuclear targets or countries, especially the Russians and Uncle Sam will go after their nukes first and subs will destroy their cities down to 100K after the first strike on their nukes, if required. I think Uncle Sam should develop a non nuclear precision first strike capability against Russian nuclear assets, just in case, using stealth cruse missiles and such. I think we have the technology to do it these days and could take them out with conventional weapons, as an act of desperation.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
1 year....not 10, or 5...1 year...about the worst we have the ability to do to ourselves would be a 4 or 5 year dust cloud...it would probably do the world some good, actually, cool it off, let some of the glaciers refreeze a little, maybe even let some of the ozone layer repair itself...
yeah, i know that it's still bad, and i don't want entire cities of people to be killed, but how long can the world allow that little dictatorial fuck to hold us all hostage with his fucking bombs? i think it's been just about long enough, one way or the other
One Pinatubo did did that. Let's not learn to love the bomb.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
1 year....not 10, or 5...1 year...about the worst we have the ability to do to ourselves would be a 4 or 5 year dust cloud...it would probably do the world some good, actually, cool it off, let some of the glaciers refreeze a little, maybe even let some of the ozone layer repair itself...
yeah, i know that it's still bad, and i don't want entire cities of people to be killed, but how long can the world allow that little dictatorial fuck to hold us all hostage with his fucking bombs? i think it's been just about long enough, one way or the other
WTF!!! Sorry Rodger, but seriously WTF!!! If the guy decides to use nukes then that’s on him and until those nukes hit a NATO partner the nukes should stay parked IMO. If he does do it on Ukraine soil then his government will not survive, what little support he had will be gone. But I for one hope the fuck it’s not ever a decision that needs to be made, mostly for my future grandkids, if I ever fucking get any :(.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
can you show me?
Apparently it is still a distinct possibility, from the article I read from a fellow promoting it years ago, I got the impression the risks had diminished along with the arsenals. Nuclear war is a bad idea and as I said before, a Hail Mary conventional precision strike on their nukes could reduce the risks considerably. These fuckers might go nuts yet and would have to be dealt with. You might not get them all, but reducing them by 90% would avoid nuclear winter, or lessen it's severity, we must deal with this shit the best way we can. During the cold war the plan was to nuke the shit out of the Russians as they invaded, now the idea is we can easily lick them conventionally, the same idea might be true for nukes.

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
can you show me?
I looked into nuclear winter a bit and this is from 6 years ago, however recent modeling with better computers and modeling have reinforced the theory of nuclear winter. It also illustrates the need a conventional stealth cruise missile response to imminent nuclear threats. We must have more options than MAD for facing multiple potential adversaries with different capabilities.


Nuclear Winter | Retro Report | The New York Times
409,666 views Apr 11, 2016 Carl Sagan and other Cold War scientists once feared that a nuclear war could plunge the world into a deadly ice age. Three decades later, does this theory still resonate?
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I looked into nuclear winter a bit and this is from 6 years ago, however recent modeling with better computers and modeling have reinforced the theory of nuclear winter. It also illustrates the need a conventional stealth cruise missile response to imminent nuclear threats. We must have more options than MAD for facing multiple potential adversaries with different capabilities.


Nuclear Winter | Retro Report | The New York Times
409,666 views Apr 11, 2016 Carl Sagan and other Cold War scientists once feared that a nuclear war could plunge the world into a deadly ice age. Three decades later, does this theory still resonate?
Ok, so i was a little out of date...I'd still like to finish this shit once and for all. The goal seems to be to cripple russia financially and militarily so they can't attack anyone else...But the thing is, they'll immediately start rebuilding their army, and they'll remember being humiliated. Now, they'll start checking that shit gets done. They'll change their command structure and try to build a cadre of NCO equivalent ranks to control groups in the field better. They'll stockpile sensitive spare parts, build up their supply of precision munitions,
work on their distribution system...
and then they'll attack Ukraine again, or they'll just subsume Belorussia, or they'll be really fucking insane and attack a NATO country...
and we'll right back here...not daring to stop them again, because of the fucking aged, decrepit, soviet era piece of shit nukes...
we'll be the leader of russia's hostage...how long till they want to expand past the nato countries blocking them? will we finally have the fucking balls to stand up to him then? or will we let him march through Romania to get to Serbia? and then let them steal another country...because he has nukes?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
There was some recent research done on it, in light of the drastic reduction of nuclear arsenals after the cold war. I recently read and article by a guy who promoted the idea back in the day. Atmospheric radiation and fallout would be my big concern, nobody will waste nukes on non nuclear targets or countries, especially the Russians and Uncle Sam will go after their nukes first and subs will destroy their cities down to 100K after the first strike on their nukes, if required. I think Uncle Sam should develop a non nuclear precision first strike capability against Russian nuclear assets, just in case, using stealth cruse missiles and such. I think we have the technology to do it these days and could take them out with conventional weapons, as an act of desperation.
I’d like a link if you have it handy.

I remember nuclear winter being a hot topic when I started grad school. One notably socially-conscious professor recommended a book that suggested nuclear winter would be an extinction-level event. I found this hard to swallow from my assumption that our arsenals (these were the peak years, Reagtime. Both arsenals were near max for total deliverable yield. Scary paper:


(edit) the paper informing the vid you posted; thanks (/edit)

I never deepened my search, so I don’t know.
I do know that comparing megatons is a poor measure of the real issue: the mass quanity and chemical nature of tiny particles ejected or condensing in[to] the stratosphere beyond the cleaning power of weather.

I believe that volcanoes are much more efficient at loading the stratosphere. Take Pinatubo, estimated to be 70 Mt. The kicker is that it injected twenty million tons of sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere. Sulfur compounds are much more active per mass unit than nuclear cloud injecta appear to be.

I cannot find a reference for global cooling by nuclear weapons. The largest airblast Tsar Bomba yielded est. 50 megatons energy, more than half a Pinatubo, which dumped enough to cause global cooling of 0.5 degrees Celsius.

Warming/cooling degrees are “bigger” than weather degrees.

Global warming since 1975 has been less than 1 degree C, and we are witnessing frank global effects that will get much worse even if we all stopped generating any greenhouse gas waste products at all.
With us requiring enough energy to keep billions alive at a low standard of living, that will make the coming spot of bother worse than much worse.

The fact that we have such a weak response to the warning cry to stop emitting and hunker down for a century of untold misery -
that places a number on the political power of the fossil fuel producing corporations.

So even though I do not think nuclear winter is gonna be near as bad as scary paper suggests. We are in for it from another bearing.

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Ok, so i was a little out of date...I'd still like to finish this shit once and for all. The goal seems to be to cripple russia financially and militarily so they can't attack anyone else...But the thing is, they'll immediately start rebuilding their army, and they'll remember being humiliated. Now, they'll start checking that shit gets done. They'll change their command structure and try to build a cadre of NCO equivalent ranks to control groups in the field better. They'll stockpile sensitive spare parts, build up their supply of precision munitions,
work on their distribution system...
and then they'll attack Ukraine again, or they'll just subsume Belorussia, or they'll be really fucking insane and attack a NATO country...
and we'll right back here...not daring to stop them again, because of the fucking aged, decrepit, soviet era piece of shit nukes...
we'll be the leader of russia's hostage...how long till they want to expand past the nato countries blocking them? will we finally have the fucking balls to stand up to him then? or will we let him march through Romania to get to Serbia? and then let them steal another country...because he has nukes?
Not if they are driven from Ukraine enough and the resources are developed, make Ukraine rich and they will make the Russians miserable for decades. The best defense for Ukraine is to cause trouble in Belarus, then go for Crimea when the Russians scramble to go the long way around. Keep lighting fires inside and outside his empire seek to break up Russia in the east, keep them weak, like they did to Ukraine in a thousand different ways with several different intelligence agencies. It is probably hard to keep the Poles on a leash to stop them from causing internal shit in Belarus, I think they are equipping the rebels fighting in Ukraine, they were very well equipped. The best defense against Vlad and any assholes who follow him is a good offense, keep the fuckers busy at a time and place of your choosing, be very aggressive, but smart about it too. Vlad the spymaster opened a real clandestine can of worms in his own backyard with the CIA drooling at the possibilities for recruitment and causing Vlad all sorts of grief, ditto for the Brits and others, they have many enemies and earned every one of them.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I’d like a link if you have it handy.
Here is the most recent credible research, doesn't look peer reviewed, just announced publicly. I'd go for some peer debate on it on the relevant sites and expert consensus. But I'll take their word for it and hope the Russians do too! Winter would be bad for what was left of them in Russia, but the glass that was Moscow should be still warm for awhile.

 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I looked into nuclear winter a bit and this is from 6 years ago, however recent modeling with better computers and modeling have reinforced the theory of nuclear winter. It also illustrates the need a conventional stealth cruise missile response to imminent nuclear threats. We must have more options than MAD for facing multiple potential adversaries with different capabilities.


Nuclear Winter | Retro Report | The New York Times
409,666 views Apr 11, 2016 Carl Sagan and other Cold War scientists once feared that a nuclear war could plunge the world into a deadly ice age. Three decades later, does this theory still resonate?
Those numbers look damned high to me.
But I didn’t even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.

So, accepting that my error bars exceed the assigned values, my gut call is maybe two degrees C in a full War Games strategic war scenario.
This would likely disappear into the noise floor of death, disease, poverty caused by more immediate bomb effects if we go the full LeMay and wipe out metropolitan areas. ymmvbamf

“your mileage may vary by a metric fuckton”

(addendum) A problem is that we have no experimental data on how much soot a nuclear release of x megatons will loft sbove the weather. Also, the computer simulations are necessarily burdened with SWAGs, “scientific wild-ass guesses”. The article


contains a couple. Happy easter, O gentle reader.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The atrocities the Russians are committing have a big impact in eastern Europe, not just Ukraine, but among former Soviet states as well and among western allies who supply arms and those arms are gonna include warplanes and longer range HIMARS rockets. It makes it hard for the Germans to deal with the Devil and be under the control of yet another fascist dictator who is telling them what to do. The Poles especially are taking a dim fucking view of Russia and Germans doing business, having been caught between the two before. One reason they ordered 500 HIMARS from Uncle Sam, a number that raised eyebrows.
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A growing list of Russian atrocities and war crimes in Ukraine | World News – TVP World
5,845 views Jul 30, 2022 The list of Russian atrocities and war crimes keeps getting longer day by day, US Army’s Camp Kościuszko established in western Poland, Russia cuts off another country from its natural gas supply. This and much more are in the Saturday edition of World News.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Those numbers look damned high to me.
But I didn’t even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.

So, accepting that my error bars exceed the assigned values, my gut call is maybe two degrees C in a full War Games strategic war scenario.
This would likely disappear into the noise floor of death, disease, poverty caused by more immediate bomb effects if we go the full LeMay and wipe out metropolitan areas. ymmvbamf

“your mileage may vary by a metric fuckton”
Best not to test the models IMHO! I'll watch the debate from the sidelines and let the experts rip each other new assholes, science can be a blood sport at times! :lol:
 
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