War

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
have you ever noticed that almost every "movement" has at least one unofficial spokesperson they wish they didn't have?
the entire republican party, with a few exceptions, (those members just as stupid as she is) must wince when she even looks like she's going to open her mouth...
https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-end-war-ukraine-russia-1727047

too bad her name isn't jane
snl-saturday-night-live.gif
 

printer

Well-Known Member
have you ever noticed that almost every "movement" has at least one unofficial spokesperson they wish they didn't have?
the entire republican party, with a few exceptions, (those members just as stupid as she is) must wince when she even looks like she's going to open her mouth...
https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-end-war-ukraine-russia-1727047

too bad her name isn't jane
View attachment 5169812
One?

GOP civil war on Ukraine builds between MAGA, Reagan Republicans
A GOP civil war is building over U.S. policy toward Russia and Ukraine, pitting Reagan Republicans against more isolationist “MAGA” Republicans who take their political cues from former President Trump.

The Reagan Republicans have been winning the battle, but the continued fight could shape future U.S. policy if the GOP takes the House or Senate in this fall’s midterms.

It may also shape the contest to be the next GOP presidential nominee, with Trump himself a possible candidate.

GOP lawmakers who want to continue U.S. support for Ukraine are sending out warning signals, calling for the U.S. to keep up its backing for Kyiv regardless of which party holds the congressional majorities.

“If freedom is under assault by dictatorship and we don’t back up freedom, then what message does that send?” Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.), who sits on the House Intelligence and House Foreign Affairs committees and who worked in Ukraine as an FBI agent, told The Hill in an interview.

Most GOP lawmakers have backed military aide to Ukraine, but Fitzpatrick said he senses support waning.

Worries the U.S. could become fatigued with the fighting in Ukraine, or distracted by domestic problems, have never been far from the minds of policymakers on both sides of the Atlantic. High inflation and the prospect of a recession is another danger.

“The support early on was very strong and very bipartisan. Is some of that support waning? Yes,” Fitzpatrick said. “Part of it is natural just because it’s not in the headlines. … We can’t allow domestic politics to overshadow the fact that there’s genocide going on in Ukraine right now.”

Sen. James Risch (R-Idaho), the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, invoked Reagan’s name in calling on lawmakers to not waver in their support.

“I would say to those that criticize, do you really want to do this? Ronald Reagan would be deeply disappointed,” he said. “He’d hang his head in shame if he knew that we walked away from Ukrainians when we could help them and we have the ability to help them.”

GOP lawmakers who oppose support for Ukraine largely say they do not want to send money abroad when it can be used in the U.S. to fortify the southern border and invest in domestic energy production, among other issues.

In May, 57 House Republicans voted against a $40 billion aid package to Ukraine. The “no” votes included some of Trump’s most loyal allies, including Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.) and Matt Gaetz (Fla.).

In a tweet, Gaetz committed to ending U.S. support for Ukraine if Republicans take control of the House after November.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has issued a clarion call for the U.S. and democratic allies to help end Russia’s war by December, to stop the bloodshed but also anticipating waning global support.

“I think bipartisan support for Ukraine is still very strong in Congress, but it’s definitely something to watch,” Melinda Haring, deputy director of the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center, said of the split among Republicans. “The sentiment definitely is growing.”

Sen. Josh Hawley (Mo.), a Trump ally who voted against certifying President Biden’s election victory, is one of 11 Senate Republicans who voted against the $40 billion aid package for Ukraine in May.

He told The Hill that his vote against the aid “clearly” showed he was in the minority “in the caucus,” but added, “In the party, no.”

While a July Morning Consult poll showed large majorities in both parties are concerned about Russia’s war in Ukraine, it also found that the number of Republicans saying “not enough” is being done to halt Russia’s war in Ukraine had dropped by half since the first month of the Kremlin’s invasion, from 40 percent to 20 percent. And while 37 percent of GOP voters said “the right amount” is being done for Ukraine, 30 percent said “too much” is being done.

The elections could also bring more Ukraine skeptics to Congress.

Trump-backed Ohio Senate candidate J.D. Vance is running to succeed pro-Ukraine Sen. Rob Portman (R), who is retiring.

Vance has criticized Ukraine as a “corrupt nation run by oligarchs.” And while he has condemned Russia’s invasion, Vance has also called it “insulting and strategically stupid to devote billions of resources to Ukraine while ignoring the problems in our own country.”

Hawley, asked if he expects voters to support candidates who reflect his position on Ukraine, said, “If you look at people like J.D. Vance, for example, I think you would probably see a position close to the one that I hold.”

Hawley said he supports targeted military assistance but is against economic support that veers into “nation building,” saying it depletes funds needed to counter the threat from China.

Some Democrats say they are confident that the majority of their Republican colleagues will continue to support U.S. assistance for Ukraine.

“I actually think there’s been very strong bipartisan support for Ukraine. It was a minority of people who voted against the aid, and they sort of vote against everything. I don’t expect that to change,” Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), co-chair of the Senate NATO Observer Group and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Hill.

Others are much more concerned.

Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D-Va.), a former CIA official who serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, called a potential GOP majority “deeply concerning” because “we see such an extremist element on the other side of the aisle that’s self-aligning with [Russian President Vladimir] Putin, as well as a whole host of others with extreme positions.”

Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas), who traveled with Fitzpatrick to Ukraine in May, called it an “unholy alliance” between far-right isolationists and what he described as the anti-war left.

However, while progressive lawmakers are opposed to increased U.S. military spending in general, they have almost entirely backed legislation providing defensive aid to Ukraine — though with strict oversight.

Progressive Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) authored legislation requiring the Pentagon to report on efforts to prevent U.S. provided-weapons to Ukraine from “being sold on the black market or obtained by extremist groups.”

Crenshaw accused the “populist-right” of lying and seeking to “cherry-pick certain facts to degrade any kind of sympathy for Ukraine into increased sympathy for Russian interests.” But he said extremes on both the right and left pose a risk.

“You’re seeing that unholy alliance on this particular situation between the populist right and the far left and it’s very strange. These are people who never wanted us to win the Cold War, never would have won World War II — they’re loud, but they’re very few.”
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Nobody knows how many HIMARS are needed. I know one thing for sure, if they give shells capable of hitting the Crimean bridge, everything will change.
That will mark the turning point and there are several ways it could be destroyed. It would most likely happen in an effort to clear the south of the country that would threaten Crimea, the Ukrainians want it back and this war will not end until they do. A long war is hard on Ukraine, but it will be harder on the Russians, a quick victory risks nuclear war, or a peace with an end to sanctions on Russia. Germany is too eager to buy their oil and gas, Ukraine has plenty that is undeveloped and the pipelines to Europe pass right over the fields. Ukraine could displace Russia as Europe's major energy supplier and become very wealthy very quickly. A wealthy Ukraine would be a militarily strong Ukraine and besides they would also have all the seized Russian money to get the ball rolling. ;-) The smart people in Ukraine know that the only long term security is to destroy the Russian army, not just drive them from their land.
 

EdaTX

New Member
That will mark the turning point and there are several ways it could be destroyed. It would most likely happen in an effort to clear the south of the country that would threaten Crimea, the Ukrainians want it back and this war will not end until they do. A long war is hard on Ukraine, but it will be harder on the Russians, a quick victory risks nuclear war, or a peace with an end to sanctions on Russia. Germany is too eager to buy their oil and gas, Ukraine has plenty that is undeveloped and the pipelines to Europe pass right over the fields. Ukraine could displace Russia as Europe's major energy supplier and become very wealthy very quickly. A wealthy Ukraine would be a militarily strong Ukraine and besides they would also have all the seized Russian money to get the ball rolling. ;-) The smart people in Ukraine know that the only long term security is to destroy the Russian army, not just drive them from their land.
If it weren’t for the constant intervention of the “big brother”, which is exactly what russians like to call themselves in relation to ukrainians, then Ukraine would have been rich and strong for a long time. Unfortunately, Russia is a huge country and most of its population is under the crazy influence of propaganda and they believe about all this nonsense with biolaboratories, nazis and other nonsense that they are pushed every day. Therefore, the supply of cannon fodder for Putin there is very large. I believe that the Ukrainians will be able to get rid of the influence of Russia, but at the cost of how many lives of civilians this will be achieved...
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If it weren’t for the constant intervention of the “big brother”, which is exactly what russians like to call themselves in relation to ukrainians, then Ukraine would have been rich and strong for a long time. Unfortunately, Russia is a huge country and most of its population is under the crazy influence of propaganda and they believe about all this nonsense with biolaboratories, nazis and other nonsense that they are pushed every day. Therefore, the supply of cannon fodder for Putin there is very large. I believe that the Ukrainians will be able to get rid of the influence of Russia, but at the cost of how many lives of civilians this will be achieved...
They have nowhere else to go, Putin made his genocidal intentions clear, they have no choice but to fight for their lives and land. Russia is 3 X larger than Ukraine population wise, but Vlad will need to mobilize to get the warm bodies. A long war is best for Ukraine and it will destroy the Russian army and it's irreplaceable equipment along with the Russian economy and ability to make modern arms. He might have a big army of cannon fodder who will march to war when they get off the trains with what they need on their backs, but modern arms can slaughter them en masse in seconds.

I think slowly strangling Russia is the plan, it might be hard of the Ukrainians and the Europeans might freeze in the dark while the poor starve. It sucks Vlad in and bleads him white while he thinks he can win and hopefully avoids nuclear war. Russia keeps Ukraine poor for a reason, the same reason the gas and oil resources in Belarus are not developed, it would cut into Russian markets. A map of Ukrainian oil and gas resources reveals much, Europe knows all about it too and nobody is saying a word. If Ukraine made as much money off oil and gas as Russia, it would be like the Texas of Europe.

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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Let's hope he leaves this world before he reaches the suitcase with the red button.
The oil and gas are not spoken of, but I think they are Vlad's true motives and it is what will motivate the Europeans to act. It is what is driving Ukraine's speedy entry into the EU, internal energy security for them. If they start selling oil and gas to Europe, they won't need to be a NATO member, they will be armed to the teeth. I figure the heat is gonna shift to Belarus soon and what remains of Vlad's army will be spent there, they have lot's of oil and gas too and Russian pipelines to Europe pass right over them too. These IMHO are the stakes, Europe's energy need and the vast wealth involved with supplying it. This war is gonna change the map of central Europe and is historic, as well as a people's courageous fight for national survival and freedom. For the Ukrainians winning also means a very bright economic future and being a regional super power.
 

EdaTX

New Member
The oil and gas are not spoken of, but I think they are Vlad's true motives and it is what will motivate the Europeans to act. It is what is driving Ukraine's speedy entry into the EU, internal energy security for them. If they start selling oil and gas to Europe, they won't need to be a NATO member, they will be armed to the teeth. I figure the heat is gonna shift to Belarus soon and what remains of Vlad's army will be spent there, they have lot's of oil and gas too and Russian pipelines to Europe pass right over them too. These IMHO are the stakes, Europe's energy need and the vast wealth involved with supplying it. This war is gonna change the map of central Europe and is historic, as well as a people's courageous fight for national survival and freedom. For the Ukrainians winning also means a very bright economic future and being a regional super power.
I agree. Changes on the map of Central Europe will benefit everyone. And Russia, I hope, will cease to exist in its current form, because there are enough people who want to return theirs.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
They have nowhere else to go, Putin made his genocidal intentions clear, they have no choice but to fight for their lives and land. Russia is 3 X larger than Ukraine population wise, but Vlad will need to mobilize to get the warm bodies. A long war is best for Ukraine and it will destroy the Russian army and it's irreplaceable equipment along with the Russian economy and ability to make modern arms. He might have a big army of cannon fodder who will march to war when they get off the trains with what they need on their backs, but modern arms can slaughter them en masse in seconds.

I think slowly strangling Russia is the plan, it might be hard of the Ukrainians and the Europeans might freeze in the dark while the poor starve. It sucks Vlad in and bleads him white while he thinks he can win and hopefully avoids nuclear war. Russia keeps Ukraine poor for a reason, the same reason the gas and oil resources in Belarus are not developed, it would cut into Russian markets. A map of Ukrainian oil and gas resources reveals much, Europe knows all about it too and nobody is saying a word. If Ukraine made as much money off oil and gas as Russia, it would be like the Texas of Europe.

View attachment 5169831
Zelensky wants to be done with russia by January. If we pump enough munitions to them, and provide them good intel, they could do it, but it will be brutal.
Zelensky knows people, and he knows that people slowly lose interest in wars that aren't on their doorstep...he's afraid that US aid could dry up after the election in November, i think, and wants to consolidate as much advantage as possible before then.
i hope he's wrong, and we not only continue to support them, we expand our support so they can finish it once and for all, but i don't blame him for being nervous, or for trying to do what he can right now to compensate for that possible out come.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Different hobby groups have stepped forward from Yachting, RC plane and drone hobbyists to electronics hobbyists are helping out in support roles wherever they can, and these organizations can concentrate existing useful expertise and mobilize international support from fellow hobbyists too. They have reorganized themselves and united for a greater purpose, winning the war.
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Wind of change. This is how Ukrainian sailors help Armed Forces of Ukraine
6,220 views Jul 26, 2022 Before 24th of February they were a broad strong community travelling around the world and catching the wind in the most remote seas. When the full scale war began - Ukrainian yachtsmen gathered again with the new purpose. Here is what they do. And they are just one of many Ukrainian communities who switched from the civilians hobbies and professions.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/26/russia-sanctions-economic-impact

i wonder how long they can keep up the charade that the sanctions aren't hurting them? it would help if fuckheads like faux news would quit trying to undercut public sentiment, and giving them sound bites to use in their propaganda.
India and China seem reluctant to entangle themselves with the russians, outside of buying cheap oil and gas from them, Iran's only useful export is oil and gas, which isn't going to do a damn thing to help the russians...they have no useful allies, no one they can trust, they're running out of men, equipment, money...soon the Ukrainians will have enough equipment and ammunition on hand to press an offensive into Crimea, and take that fucking bridge, or at least blow it to hell. then it will be time to start pushing back, when the russians have no real base of operations inside Ukraine.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
The oil and gas are not spoken of, but I think they are Vlad's true motives and it is what will motivate the Europeans to act. It is what is driving Ukraine's speedy entry into the EU, internal energy security for them. If they start selling oil and gas to Europe, they won't need to be a NATO member, they will be armed to the teeth. I figure the heat is gonna shift to Belarus soon and what remains of Vlad's army will be spent there, they have lot's of oil and gas too and Russian pipelines to Europe pass right over them too. These IMHO are the stakes, Europe's energy need and the vast wealth involved with supplying it. This war is gonna change the map of central Europe and is historic, as well as a people's courageous fight for national survival and freedom. For the Ukrainians winning also means a very bright economic future and being a regional super power.
It will take time for Ukraine to get the gas and oil out of the ground and into pipelines. Also where is the gas? In the Donbas region. So this will be a long hard road for them, Putin still has Europe over a barrel. Also he is hoping the November elections will choke off the supplies.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
It will take time for Ukraine to get the gas and oil out of the ground and into pipelines. Also where is the gas? In the Donbas region. So this will be a long hard road for them, Putin still has Europe over a barrel. Also he is hoping the November elections will choke off the supplies.
the only thing Donbas has going for it, is it's coal.....the LNG resources are in the north Karkiv, Sumney Regions, oil Region is by Lviv...think DIY put up a map earliers showing where is what......
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Politico: Zelensky wants to return territories in three to six weeks
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky believes that the country should return its territories within three to six weeks. Adam Smith, head of the Armed Services Committee of the US House of Representatives, told Politico about this, referring to an urgent message from the Ukrainian leader.

“Ukrainian officials have said they want to make a peace deal with the Russians, but first they must take back their lands, especially in the south. <…> The next three to six weeks are critical,” Smith said, relaying the main message he heard from Zelensky.

On February 24, by order of Russian President Vladimir Putin, a special operation was launched to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine. The head of state said that Russia was left with no other choice. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reported that the Kherson region and a significant part of the Zaporozhye region were completely taken under control . The Kremlin noted that the fate of these regions will be decided by local residents, writes " Dni.ru ". Authorities in Kherson and Zaporozhye say a referendum on joining Russia could be held in September, Nation News reports .

The Ministry of Defense put an end to the issue of mobilization in Russia
The Vostok-2022 exercise, which will take place from September 30 to 5, has nothing to do with mobilization activities. This was stated by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

“A number of foreign media disseminate unreliable information about allegedly holding some kind of mobilization activities. We draw your attention to the fact that only a part of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is involved in the special military operation, the number of which is quite sufficient to fulfill all the tasks set by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.

It is noted that the strategic command and staff exercise "Vostok-2022" will be held from August 30 to September 5. The troops of the Eastern Military District under the leadership of the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces will take part in it.

Earlier, military experts in an interview with URA.RU explained that the categories of citizens who are drafted into the army for mobilization are determined by presidential decrees . The decree is being prepared for a long time, and a prerequisite for mobilization is an attack on the country when war is declared.

Russia proposes to create a black list of bloggers
In Russia, they proposed creating a black list of bloggers. Such an initiative was made by the chairman of the State Duma Committee on Youth Policy Artem Metelev . According to the parliamentarian, which he expressed in his Telegram channel, bloggers should be deprived of access to the Internet and social networks for immoral behavior during streams.

“They need to be punished as harshly as possible. Maybe even tougher than if they broke the law quietly. After all, [from] the effect of harm is greater, which means that responsibility should be higher. For them, trash bloggers, what matters? Money and audience. So, you need to disconnect them from this, ”Metelev wrote. Thus, he commented on an accident involving bloggers who were broadcasting live while driving.

“We should think about a special register, inclusion in which will be a black day for Internet addicts: blocking in social networks, a ban on Internet providers and mobile operators to provide Internet services,” the deputy suggested.

According to the parliamentarian, trash streamers form an immoral model of behavior among young people. “They are dangerous to society and need to be isolated. If not physically, then certainly virtually,” added the head of the Duma committee.

On July 25, trash streamers, known by the nicknames Kiryusha and Loshadka, staged a mass accident in Yaroslavl . They were broadcasting live while driving, lost control of the curve and drove at full speed into a private parking lot, damaging several cars.
Russia Doing Better Than Expected Despite Sanctions – IMF
Despite damaging Western sanctions imposed on Moscow in the wake of the invasion of Ukraine, Russia's economy appears to be weathering the storm better than expected as it benefits from high energy prices, the IMF said Tuesday.

The sanctions were meant to sever Russia from the global financial system and choke off funds available to Moscow to finance the war.

But the International Monetary Fund's latest World Economic Outlook upgraded Russia's GDP estimate for this year by a remarkable 2.5 percentage points, although its economy is still expected to contract by 6%.

While major economies including the United States and China are slowing, "Russia's economy is estimated to have contracted during the second quarter by less than previously projected, with crude oil and non-energy exports holding up better than expected," the report said.

After starting the year below $80 a barrel, oil prices spiked to nearly $129 in March, before easing back to a little over $105, while natural gas prices are rising again and approaching their recent peak.

Meanwhile, despite the sanctions, Russia's "domestic demand is also showing some resilience thanks to containment of the effect of the sanctions."

In contrast, Europe is facing the brunt of the fallout given its reliance on Russia for energy, and the situation could worsen dramatically if Moscow cuts off gas exports, and once the European Union imposes a ban on Russian oil delivered by sea starting next year.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
the only thing Donbas has going for it, is it's coal.....the LNG resources are in the north Karkiv, Sumney Regions, oil Region is by Lviv...think DIY put up a map earliers showing where is what......
OK, seem to recall some being offshore also. Just getting things together (while multitasking online) for a visit to the hospital (hi mom.) did not look where possible reserves are.



 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It will take time for Ukraine to get the gas and oil out of the ground and into pipelines. Also where is the gas? In the Donbas region. So this will be a long hard road for them, Putin still has Europe over a barrel. Also he is hoping the November elections will choke off the supplies.
They should be able to get a start on the gas fields in the west of the country. Ukraine had deals with western oil companies as far back as 2010 who did exploration and when the word of reserves got out, the war in the Donbass started just after and the companies pulled out. There are between 1.6 and 5 trillion cubic meters of gas reserves in Ukraine, if memory serves me. Europe needs a dependable source of energy and petrochemicals and Ukraine is close by. Apparently they have a large existing NG infrastructure with pipelines to the west and storage capacity. I dunno how long it would take a drilling crew to punch holes into the gas pockets, but a dozen rigs could get a fair amount of gas flowing in a year of drilling. From what I can see they just need to drill the wells and hook them up to existing infrastructure that was constructed in soviet times, before this resource was known about.

Considering the importance of oil and gas income to Russia, the development of Ukrainian resources would be a threat to them. Not long after the discovery of these resources, the war in the Donbas and annexation of Crimea began, then the oil companies pulled out. I also think it is a factor in rapidly admitting Ukraine into the EU, internal energy security. It seems such a big factor in all this shit and I'm kinda curious as to why there is not more mention of it. If they were doing anything to move the idea forward, I don't think they would mention it, the Russians would not be happy about their cash cow being cut off.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
They should be able to get a start on the gas fields in the west of the country. Ukraine had deals with western oil companies as far back as 2010 who did exploration and when the word of reserves got out, the war in the Donbass started just after and the companies pulled out. There are between 1.6 and 5 trillion cubic meters of gas reserves in Ukraine, if memory serves me. Europe needs a dependable source of energy and petrochemicals and Ukraine is close by. Apparently they have a large existing NG infrastructure with pipelines to the west and storage capacity. I dunno how long it would take a drilling crew to punch holes into the gas pockets, but a dozen rigs could get a fair amount of gas flowing in a year of drilling. From what I can see they just need to drill the wells and hook them up to existing infrastructure that was constructed in soviet times, before this resource was known about.

Considering the importance of oil and gas income to Russia, the development of Ukrainian resources would be a threat to them. Not long after the discovery of these resources, the war in the Donbas and annexation of Crimea began, then the oil companies pulled out. I also think it is a factor in rapidly admitting Ukraine into the EU, internal energy security. It seems such a big factor in all this shit and I'm kinda curious as to why there is not more mention of it. If they were doing anything to move the idea forward, I don't think they would mention it, the Russians would not be happy about their cash cow being cut off.
how old is that pre existing infrastructure? is it likely to just fly apart like giant tinker toys when you pressurize the whole thing? soviet era ANYTHING is suspect until proven to work...
and how long would it take the russians to figure out what they were doing and bomb the fucking shit out of the whole area?
seems like something well worth exploring and exploiting, AFTER the war...
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
how old is that pre existing infrastructure? is it likely to just fly apart like giant tinker toys when you pressurize the whole thing? soviet era ANYTHING is suspect until proven to work...
and how long would it take the russians to figure out what they were doing and bomb the fucking shit out of the whole area?
seems like something well worth exploring and exploiting, AFTER the war...
Well, they could drill and cap for now, especially in the west of the country. I believe that infrastructure was used until the war in February to transport Russian gas. The war will go on and Russia's ability to conduct accurate long range strikes is diminishing and Ukrainian missile defenses are growing in strength. I just think it is the elephant in the room, when it comes to the reasons for this war, Russian imperialism aside. I believe the Russian army will be destroyed in Ukraine and they've got a good start, what's left will be finished off in Belarus, when shit starts there. The ability to retaliate against Russia for lobbing missiles at Ukraine will be important in the future, they have to make it hurt very badly. Modern AA missile defense systems can deal with many of them and they don't appear to be accurate enough to hit rail lines most of the time.
 
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