War

BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
printer said:
But if they had them at the beginning of WWII? They would be doing exactly as Russia is right now. Only they would be more disciplined and would be more effective on the battlefield.
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if germany had them before ww2, nuke i the hands of mad men......not a good combo what so ever....Hitler would have defintely used them during the Russian campaign....
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Just saying DIY-HP-LED's solution will not fly if you want the umbrella of legitimacy to hold if the UN is to sanction Russia for war damages.
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I don't support ethnic cleansing and neither would Zelenskiy, however there are many Russian citizens living in Crimea now, not former Ukrainian ones. Ukraine is a multicultural liberal democracy, but feelings are running high there now and unless some are prepared to swear loyalty to obtain citizenship, I see no other way. I expect a large influx of Russians after the war, economic refugees, Ukraine contains Russian and Ukrainian speakers and the difference between the languages is not great.

The point is not ethnicity or even language, it is the political views and loyalty of the citizens to the state and every state must guard against potential 5th columns, even America. If Russians living in Crimea want to be citizens, then they must eschew Russian citizenship and imperialism. This is really a legal question for lawyers and judges to decide and Ukraine has the rule of law, unlike Russia.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
BudmanTX said:
if germany had them before ww2, nuke i the hands of mad men......not a good combo what so ever....Hitler would have defintely used them during the Russian campaign....
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And that is why the people saying to be careful of Russia are basing it on. Putin can be very dangerous if he sees the world through the Russian lens. Will he roll the dice and bet it all? He sure does not seem to be too concerned what the rest of the world thinks of Russia.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Russia should pay for it. But again, you can not have Ukraine do it and expect the UN to back it. It could be a part of negotiations, Russia keeps what was held before Feb 24, the people on the oposite sides of the fence go to where they want to live. But for Ukraine to do forced removals of Russians before that they would be as bad as the Russians.
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I agree, but what about the Ukrainians and Russians they drove out of the region who disagreed with Putin's vision of make Russia great again? You cannot trust any referendum done under Russian control, even of the media, much less the vote, all such things must be done under UN supervision and there is a better chance of this with Ukraine than with Russia. Self determination in free and fair referendums.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I don't support ethnic cleansing and neither would Zelenskiy, however there are many Russian citizens living in Crimea now, not former Ukrainian ones. Ukraine is a multicultural liberal democracy, but feelings are running high there now and unless some are prepared to swear loyalty to obtain citizenship, I see no other way. I expect a large influx of Russians after the war, economic refugees, Ukraine contains Russian and Ukrainian speakers and the difference between the languages is not great.

The point is not ethnicity or even language, it is the political views and loyalty of the citizens to the state and every state must guard against potential 5th columns, even America. If Russians living in Crimea want to be citizens, then they must eschew Russian citizenship and imperialism. This is really a legal question for lawyers and judges to decide and Ukraine has the rule of law, unlike Russia.
Click to expand...
The recent movement of Russians to Crimea is nothing, not like they have long roots. But the Russian identifying people in the Donbas are. They have lived on the land for many generations. It will be hard to keep them in check unless you 're-educate' them.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I agree, but what about the Ukrainians and Russians they drove out of the region who disagreed with Putin's vision of make Russia great again? You cannot trust any referendum done under Russian control, even of the media, much less the vote, all such things must be done under UN supervision and there is a better chance of this with Ukraine than with Russia. Self determination in free and fair referendums.
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I do not trust anything from the Russians, it is not like the people have a say in 'their' government. I have read the propiganda fed to them. The only way out that makes sense is to cut off the head and replace it with a more Western friendly Mob boss.
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
printer said:
And that is why the people saying to be careful of Russia are basing it on. Putin can be very dangerous if he sees the world through the Russian lens. Will he roll the dice and bet it all? He sure does not seem to be too concerned what the rest of the world thinks of Russia.
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i don't think he will...i think this whole war is gonna be his last hurrah as it were after that...he's either be in a coup de ta and he will be dead.......after that...now we need to watch the next nut job
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
BudmanTX said:
i don't think he will...i think this whole war is gonna be his last hurrah as it were after that...he's either be in a coup de ta and he will be dead.......after that...now we need to watch the next nut job
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I would not write him off as long as he is healthy. He has his on security apparatus that is loyal only to him. I do not think Russia will be defeated in the short term, unlike some people I think the Russian army can still pull off the current assaults and hold them. As long as they blockades Odessa they do not have to invade the area, they can do it next year.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
printer said:
The recent movement of Russians to Crimea is nothing, not like they have long roots. But the Russian identifying people in the Donbas are. They have lived on the land for many generations. It will be hard to keep them in check unless you 're-educate' them.
Click to expand...
I think Putin destroying their homes and farms and drafting them, will do more for them going pro Ukraine than anything else, other than economic self interest and cashing in on Ukrainian prosperity. Ukraine is a multi lingual, multicultural country, seeking EU help and eventual membership, the languages are also closely related as is the culture. Ukraine is one of the few places a Russian can feel at home outside Russia and it depends on their politics, not their ethnicity, though this war won't help with this.
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
They never got far on a bomb, however it was consequential as it spurred British, then American research into a bomb. When America was attacked at pearl harbor and Germany declared war on America, it kicked into high gear.
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yeah it was scraped...from that article 1942, makes me wonder how they got they're hands on uranium in the first place......
 
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