War

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It could be a sign the Ukrainians are getting picky, 1.3 km from the operator, when artillery or a javelin could have done the job? Perhaps they wanted to kill the crew and capture the tank intact, since they had the option? If you find a tank with the crew exposed close to your lines, switchblade it with a 300 and capture it later undamaged, rather than destroy it?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I would add, since before 2014, Russia's illegal invasion of Crimea must be rejected too and they must be ejected from Crimea and the bridge linking it to Russia destroyed. Otherwise it is just springboard for invasion, again.

Russia would still pose threat to peace in Europe even after possible ceasefire, Polish foreign minister says
From CNN’s Inke Kappeler and Arnaud Siad

Russia would remain a threat for peace in Europe even after a ceasefire in Ukraine, Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau said on Tuesday.
“That Russia changes immediately after a ceasefire has been agreed is daydreaming. It would remain a danger for peace in Europe,” Rau said during a joint press conference with his German counterpart Annalena Baerbock.
Rau said he feared a Russian invasion into Poland, as well as “the danger of an armed invasion of the countries in the NATO eastern flank.”
Poland and Germany must strive for Russia "to suffer a strategic defeat and its occupation forces to leave Ukraine within the borders recognized by international law," Rau also said.
Baerbock also made clear that the Donetsk region belonged to Ukraine, saying, “Ukraine is a sovereign state within its borders and this is true for now, this is true since 2014 and this is true for the future.”
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
47 nations...47. why doesn't NATO just finish this stupid shit off? are we that worried about China? are putin's stockpiles of cold war era nukes that scary? how long are we going to let a glorified mob boss fuck up the world economy and starve people around the globe? it's past time to put putin down like the rabid biting dog he has proven himself to be.
i would love to see Ukraine kick the ever living fuck out of russia, but is it fair to them to let them take all the casualties, when they're removing a threat to world peace?
Russians have to be the ones to do poot-poot in. If we did it, it would turn him into a hero. It has to get bad enough in Russia that when it happens, then the new leaders withdraw from Ukraine and sanctions are lifted they will have some cover. Keep in mind that the second world war came around because everyone had their knee on Germany's neck after the first one.

I think we are a couple three months away from a leadership change.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
This is the reason for increased arms flowing into Ukraine, increasingly it will focus on grain and food. It's why they must defeat the Russians in the east and break their army there, Then move south to Mariupol and blow the bridge at Kerch, it is not an option, it is an imperative, as is recapturing Crimea and ejecting any disloyal Russians there and in all of Ukraine. Call it ethnic cleansing, but it was done in America too after the revolutionary war, empire loyalists were expelled. It might not be necessary or desirable for Ukraine to do this, but they won't be allowed to form pro Russian political parties and will face wide spread hatred from the larger population. It depends more on their politics, than their language, religion, race, or ethnicity and that's why it's not really ethnic cleansing, but the expulsion or suppression of traitors who tried to destroy their country. Some will do prison time for the crimes they committed during the war. The mass expulsion of people from a country is unacceptable in the modern world, even Russian traitors from Ukraine, or American ones from America and that place is full of them.
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Retired Colonel: It's game over here if Russians do this
378,717 views May 24, 2022 CNN military analyst Col. Cedric Leighton (Ret.) explains why Russian forces are targeting Ukraine's railway infrastructure in the Dnipro region.
Ethnic cleansing is a war crime.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
That's the point Henry, it was Putin who inflicted instability on Europe, nobody else, you are perfectly willing to trade others freedom away and a chance for meaningful change because of fear. Henry is an appeaser, as long as he can trade away someone else's life and freedom for the illusion of security. As if a piece of Ukraine would be enough to satisfy the lust of an un humiliated and crippled Russia. Russia could control grain exports and starve millions at will or whim when it is refused yet another territorial concession or wants sanctions lifted. Controlling both Turkey's grain and oil as well as the black sea he would use Turkey against NATO, even more than it is being used now.

So give me what I want or I'll shut off your oil will be supplemented by give me what I want or I will starve millions, since threatening nuclear suicide no longer seems to work quite so well. A dying war criminal trying to call the shots for future generations the only problem is, this is not the USSR, it is far weaker and even worse.

View attachment 5138251
Germany was humiliated after WWI and that seeded the conditions for WWII.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
It was even more humiliated after the next one and seems to have settled down.
So as an argument for not thoroughly breaking Russia, I don’t think that is viable.
I want to see Russia society reset. But history does repeat itself. The problem with Russians is that they have a "the world is against us" mentality in their culture going back hundreds of years if not a century. If they get destroyed militarily and economically it may create the conditions for a new Nazi regime there with nukes. Just think of what Germany would have done if they had nukes.

I think Russia has to be beat down, but I also see the dangers that may cause.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
"The mass expulsion of people from a country is unacceptable in the modern world, even Russian traitors from Ukraine, or American ones from America and that place is full of them".
Russia should pay for it. But again, you can not have Ukraine do it and expect the UN to back it. It could be a part of negotiations, Russia keeps what was held before Feb 24, the people on the oposite sides of the fence go to where they want to live. But for Ukraine to do forced removals of Russians before that they would be as bad as the Russians.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Just saying DIY-HP-LED's solution will not fly if you want the umbrella of legitimacy to hold if the UN is to sanction Russia for war damages.
kinda sideing with u on that.....i say keep the sanction on, they would only be lifted untill

1: the full territory of Ukraine is givin back
2: Crimea is also returned, and the Kerch bridge destroyed
3: all people are returned and children return from the re-education camps
4: reporations given for rebuilding

this is just for a start.....
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
I want to see Russia society reset. But history does repeat itself. The problem with Russians is that they have a "the world is against us" mentality in their culture going back hundreds of years if not a century. If they get destroyed militarily and economically it may create the conditions for a new Nazi regime there with nukes. Just think of what Germany would have done if they had nukes.

I think Russia has to be beat down, but I also see the dangers that may cause.
if you follow up on how the united russia party started, the nazi's are already there...

p.s WW2 germany almost did have nukes, they were working on it already
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Germany was humiliated after WWI and that seeded the conditions for WWII.
Yep, Russia's been there done that, in 1995, 1905 and 1917, the late 1930 too, if you count Finland. You would think they'd be used to it by now?

Provided you have something worth being defiant for and a greater cause than the greed of Putin and oligarchs. The end of empire is painful, even for the British, who started the process a hundred years ago, earlier if you count America. Churchill was an imperialist, but a liberal democrat too, who signed the Atlantic Charter founding the UN and the right of self determination.

I say:
“In War: Resolution,
In Defeat: Defiance,
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will.”


― Winston S. Churchill, The Second World War
 
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