cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
That name Slutsky gives me an immature impulse to giggle.
Last edited:
War
- Thread starter captainmorgan
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Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
erdogan is a living embodiment of the things the world has to quit condoning...you're part of a defensive organization, but you're going to hold it hostage on every important issue and extort concessions? why the fuck does NATO need someone like that? why does anyone in the entire world need anyone like that? you make an agreement, you stand by it, like a man. when it comes down to it, all a man has is his honor and integrity, and erdogan has neither.US frustrated over ‘problematic’ NATO ally Turkey
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is frustrating the U.S. and its allies by opposing the bid by Sweden and Finland to join NATO. The position is complicating the message of unity the Biden administration wants to send to Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine. The bids by Sweden and Finland to join the military alliance are historic — and a big defeat for Russia, which does not want them added to the group. The fact that their decision to do so is the result of the Russian war is a point that has been highlighted by U.S. officials.
But the diplomatic victory over Moscow is clouded by Erdoğan’s opposition over charges that the Nordic countries harbor Kurdish terrorist groups. NATO members must unanimously agree to accept the members. There are whispers that Ankara is looking for something — such as U.S. fighter jets — to give its blessing.
Erdoğan will talk with Finnish officials on Saturday and has kept the door open to a shift, telling reporters that “we will continue all these discussions for the sake of not interrupting diplomacy.” Turkey is widely seen as a necessary but problematic partner.
Erdoğan for years has rankled Washington over his pursuit of Russian weapons systems, military adventures in Syria, domestic political oppression, and violence against U.S. federal security and American protestors in the capital.
Yet the administration and lawmakers concede Turkey provides a key bulwark of security for NATO in the Black Sea and has provided arms to Ukraine that have proven decisive in the fight against Russian forces. And while the U.S. is frustrated Erdoğan’s government has resisted joining sanctions against Russia, they relent that Ankara is a unique venue to host any peace talks that may come between Kyiv and Moscow.
“Turkey is an important NATO partner. We have very important military installations in Turkey, it’s in our interest to have a good relationship with Turkey,” Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md), the number two Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told The Hill.
“They’ve been a good partner in regards to Ukraine. So I want to make sure that we act as a responsible partner, by making it clear that we don’t want them to have a relationship with Russia, which could be contrary to our security needs within NATO.”
The administration has been tight-lipped about what it could offer Turkey to get its acceptance for Finland and Sweden. White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan told reporters aboard Air Force One on Thursday that the U.S. is prepared to be supportive in any way, but described the disagreement as one largely between Turkey, Finland, and Sweden. He and other officials have expressed confidence that the alliance will uniformly agree on allowing the Nordic countries to become members. Sullivan also said there were no plans for President Biden and Erdoğan to speak but noted that Biden would be “happy to do it” if asked.
Biden hosted the leaders of Finland and Sweden at the White House on Thursday as a sign of robust U.S. support for their joining the alliance. During a Rose Garden event, Finnish Prime Minister Saul Niinistö directly appealed to Turkey.
“As NATO allies, we will commit to Turkey’s security just as Turkey will commit to our security,” Niinistö said. “We take terrorism seriously. We condemn terrorism in all its forms and we are actively engaged in combating it. We are open to discussing all the concerns Turkey may have concerning our membership in an open and constructive manner.”
Rose Gottemoeller, a former deputy secretary general of NATO, said she expects Finland and Sweden’s applications will ultimately be successful, but predicted it will be a “very hard bargain” with Turkey. “It is a serious matter because this was always at the top of the list of issues when I was deputy secretary general,” Gottemoeller said. “They were using this issue constantly as leverage.”
Sen. Jim Risch (R-Idaho), the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, questioned whether Turkey could sustain opposition to Finland and Sweden’s membership. “If you’re a member of a group, and 29 want to do it and you don’t, that’s a heavy lift,” he said. He also described the U.S. and Turkish relationship as having “pluses and minuses.”
Not all lawmakers are so diplomatic. Senator Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, warned against giving in to Turkey’s behavior. “In general, I don’t think Turkey should be rewarded. Turkey hasn’t agreed to put any European or American sanctions on Russia, I mean the list is long, I don’t understand how we keep rewarding authoritarian figures,” he said. Menendez has warned that the administration should not entertain Turkish requests to buy more F-16 fighter jets.
“I’m not a supporter of sending F-16’s to Turkey. They’re still in violation of CAATSA sanctions,” Mendendez said, referring to Turkey’s ownership of the Russian S400 missile defense system that violates federal law. The State Department is proposing to sell Turkey upgrades and munitions for its existing F-16s, a strong signal of closer cooperation between Washington and Ankara.
Lawmakers are muted over whether they will support the proposal.
“I think it’s important for us to keep Turkey as a strong NATO ally,” Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), also a Foreign Relations Committee member, told The Hill when asked if she supported the F-16 upgrades. Some Democrats are looking to provide strict oversight of any military equipment sales to Ankara, in particular responding to concerns from Greece that Turkey is carrying out provocative military flights over Greek islands.
Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis warned in a speech Tuesday to a joint session of Congress against weapons sales to Turkey, without naming Ankara specifically. “The last thing that NATO needs, at a time when our focus is on helping Ukraine defeat Russia’s aggression, is another source of instability on NATO’s southeastern flank,” Mitsotakis said. “And I ask you to take this into account when you make defense procurement decisions concerning the eastern Mediterranean.”
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) told The Hill that Mitsotakis was “completely right” and that lawmakers may use the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act to address concerns over Turkey’s actions in the eastern Mediterranean but did not get into specifics. “There’s just not an easy answer to it… The [U.S. and Turkish military-to-military] relationship is still pretty strong, but it’s at the diplomatic and senior-elected level where things are really rocky right now,” Kaine said. “They’re being really problematic right now.”
US frustrated over ‘problematic’ NATO ally Turkey
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is frustrating the U.S. and its allies by opposing the bid by Sweden and Finland to join NATO. The position is complicating the message of unity the Biden adm…thehill.com
Basically cut of the same cloth as Trump. "What's in it for me?"
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
the 70s showed up with good advice. Boynton always rocked it.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
If they do centralize their troops in Donbas, they are giving up mobility. Blown rail lines and mined roads will cut them off from logistical support from the east. All troops, munitions, and materials will HAVE to come in from the black sea, or by air, and either option opens them up to ranged attack from the Ukrainians. once they're in place, they're the ones vulnerable to encirclement, they're the ones with long supply lines that have to be defended...if they have any supplies to deliver.
Ukraine is fighting a battle of attrition, the russians are still losing many more men and much more equipment than they are, and they cannot afford to do that for much longer...hell they can't afford to do it now.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i think China is sending it's own messages....
https://www.wionews.com/photos/chinas-new-hypersonic-missile-innovation-how-it-will-power-planes-missiles-478872#us-joins-hypersonic-race-468820
the arms race is back on, the cold war is back on...it's the fucking 50s again. time to start stock piling new warheads, can't let the russians be number one
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
it could also be a training issue...many of the Ukrainians have trained in ballistics, i would assume, they can operate the howitzers with little to no training without the aiming computers...who is to say there aren't a sizeable group of them in training right now in Poland or w/e to learn how to use the computers, which would then be attached to a limited number of the howitzers to provide a little surprise for the russians...?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Well, we will see about Russia later this year. As for China, they have too much sense to waste money on that, they have enough and a few are all that are required, look at North Korea FFS. A few is enough to deter America or Russia from attacking China and if Vlad wins because of chickenshits in Europe, it will prove to them they can seize territory from a non nuclear power and get away with it by threatening nuclear war. Next Vlad will want the Baltics and threaten nukes unless he gets his way. Wars have consequences and Putin should feel them fully. America should be planning a first strike capability against Russia, if they aren't already, cause ya never know when a dictator in Russia will go off the rails.
If you want nuclear proliferation, then let Vlad win by using nuclear blackmail, having nukes will be seen as the only true defense, because others who have them won't have your back when the chips are down.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
A simple solution would be to arm Ukraine with nuclear armed cruise missiles, a half dozen should do and they make the call on their use. Do it secretly and only announce it after they are deployed, now Vlad fight a conventional war in Ukraine or leave with your tail tucked between your legs. Lease them for two years under lend lease, they return them, unused.
If we knuckle under to nuclear blackmail it will cause massive nuclear proliferation, Ukraine has large Uranium supplies and there will be countries that will partner with them. Pull the pin on them as they are about to eject the Russians from Crimea, or Vlad nukes them and anything can happen. One thing is for sure, if the Ukrainians had a few nukes, Russia would leave all of Ukraine and there would be peace, or they would be destroyed by conventional arms until they are gone.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
They still have elections in Turkey and nobody is bailing out the Turkish economy or Erdogan's canal. He is facing elections next year and gets 90% of their grain and oil from Ukraine. We need Turkey because of access to the black sea, if they allowed Russian warships in NATO would have to sink them at the entrance to the Dardanelles or in the Black sea. I don't really mean NATO, that is just a placeholder for a group of allies, like America, the UK, Canada and a few others like Poland. NATO is not the proper vehicle for this kind of thing. Some are quislings like Hungary, some are desperate like Turkey and some are chicken shits like France and Germany, eager to pull the pin and give away territory and PEOPLE's freedom, like some imperial fucking kings of old. Eastern Europeans and former soviet republics have a very different attitude, more of the, I'd rather risk death than be a slave or trade someone else to be one, attitude.
France and Germany are perfectly willing to sit at the table with Vlad and negotiate the freedom of millions away out of their own self interest. See why some might want nukes?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Update from Ukraine | Ukraine is Already Winning Right Now
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
'Putin will have to rethink his strategy' | Vadym Prystaiko
179,890 views May 22, 2022 Putin "is still throwing more and more lives of Russian soldiers into this meat grinder."
harrychilds
Well-Known Member
There is nothing worse than war. We all need to learn to love each other!
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Tell it to Putin, you speak of ideals, nothing wrong with wanting a better world. However, sometimes ya gotta kick ass to have peace, or be prepared to, or become a slave and used like toilet paper, disposable. Somethings are worth fighting for, liberal democracy is one of them and the only path forward to a better world.
harrychilds
Well-Known Member
Well from what I have researched, It's actually the Ukraine army that are killing there own people. And I will explain why. The Ukraine army are using Artillery and things of that nature and they are trying to shell the Russians but most of the time they miss and hit there own people.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
240 warheads on Russian targets from this one sub alone, the Americans have several, as does France and the UK, most are at sea now and the Russians can't track them. We can track every Russian sub however, because we wired the world's oceans for sound decades ago and each one is shadowed by a couple of hunter killer attack subs and ours are escorted by them too. 70% of American ballistic missiles are on subs and there is no way for the Russians to detect them. They are now blocked in the Black sea and the Baltic will become a NATO lake.
This is what nuclear war with the west looks like, 80% of the Russian population live in European Russia, most in cities and there are only two really big ones, Moscow and St. Petersburg and they would be flashing like strobe lights with nuclear detonations from several different sources. Each sub can reduce Russia's population by 90% and most of America's missiles and warheads will work just fine.
US nuclear deterrent patrols the world’s oceans l ABC News
39,712 views May 22, 2022 Martha Raddatz reports on board a U.S. Navy ballistic missile submarine and explores how the most destructive warships ever built are helping keep Americans safe on “This Week.”
This is what nuclear war with the west looks like, 80% of the Russian population live in European Russia, most in cities and there are only two really big ones, Moscow and St. Petersburg and they would be flashing like strobe lights with nuclear detonations from several different sources. Each sub can reduce Russia's population by 90% and most of America's missiles and warheads will work just fine.
US nuclear deterrent patrols the world’s oceans l ABC News
39,712 views May 22, 2022 Martha Raddatz reports on board a U.S. Navy ballistic missile submarine and explores how the most destructive warships ever built are helping keep Americans safe on “This Week.”
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
It can happen in war, but your attempt to show false equivalence is falling flat. The Russians are deliberately targeting civilians and committing atrocities, if the Ukrainians are killing their own civilians, it is a result of targeting Russians. They invaded another country and nasty things should happen to them for it and other crimes against humanity.
So saying the Ukrainians are killing their own civilians when they are clearly not is kinda stupid, what do you think all the international groups investigating atrocities are doing? The news and media are not so filtered and biased that people with common sense can't see things with their own eyes, in this cellphone and internet war.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Former defense secretary breaks down Putin's 'big mistake'
63,599 views May 22, 2022 Former US Defense Secretary William Cohen reacts to reports that Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken on more tactical decision-making in the Russian invasion into Ukraine.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Could MOLDOVA and TRANSNISTRIA end up like Ukraine? - VisualPolitik EN
injinji
Well-Known Member
100% true. They are also raping their own women, not to mention taping their hands behind their back and blowing their own brains out, then digging their own mass graves, . Not just that, they are also blowing up their own grain silos, mining their fields, stealing their own wheat, etc, etc. Just so folks around the world can say pootpoot did it.
It is really amazing what some folks will believe. But everyone who has done their own research has been able to figure it out like we have.