Crisis in the Ukraine

Will there be war?

  • NATO will do nothing

    Votes: 32 80.0%
  • NATO will confront Russia

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • Total voters
    40

HGCC

Well-Known Member
He HAS too invade.
There is an argument made that Russia would face annihilation because of simple troop size & the Russians know that
Never fucking happen & they don't give a fuck anyway. (ask Napoleon/Hitler :) )
They have enoiugh ground troops in postion to overrun Ukraine in maybe a week
I say less.
We won't even be in position for a month
By the time NATO/USA responds to Russia's invasion, it's over.
Look at the history of the Russians as far as repelling invaders/warfare in general.
They have NEVER lost & they think Ukraine is a part of Russia, therefore they don't give a fuck.
They feel oppressed and that's all it takes & Putin is playing that card
You think he gives a fuck about casualties?
I really doubt it
So...you're trying to say they are going to Rush In.

Ayyyyyeeeeeeoooo I'll see myself out.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-ap-top-news-russia-europe-wilmington-74b613d04cc6d5194cf52c927a9d744e
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WILMINGTON, Del. (AP) — President Joe Biden has warned Russia’s Vladimir Putiin that the U.S. could impose new sanctions against Russia if it takes further military action against Ukraine, while Putin responded that such a U.S. move could lead to a complete rupture of ties between the nations.

The two leaders spoke frankly for nearly an hour Thursday amid growing alarm over Russia’s troop buildup near Ukraine, a crisis that has deepened as the Kremlin has stiffened its insistence on border security guarantees and test-fired hypersonic missiles to underscore its demands.

Further U.S. sanctions “would be a colossal mistake that would entail grave consequences,” said Putin’s foreign affairs adviser Yuri Ushakov, who briefed reporters in Moscow after the Biden-Putin phone conversation. He added that Putin told Biden that Russia would act as the U.S. would if offensive weapons were deployed near American borders.

White House officials offered a far more muted post-call readout, suggesting the leaders agreed there are areas where the two sides can make meaningful progress but also differences that might be impossible to resolve.

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White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Biden “urged Russia to de-escalate tensions with Ukraine” and “made clear that the United States and its allies and partners will respond decisively if Russia further invades Ukraine.”

Putin requested the call, the second between the leaders this month, ahead of scheduled talks between senior U.S. and Russian officials Jan. 9 and 10 in Geneva. The Geneva talks will be followed by a meeting of the Russia-NATO Council on Jan. 12 and negotiations at the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe in Vienna on Jan. 13.

White House officials said Thursday’s call lasted 50 minutes, ending after midnight in Moscow.

Biden told Putin the two powers now face “two paths”: diplomacy or American deterrence through sanctions, according to a senior administration official. Biden said the route taken, according to the official who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity, will “depend on Russia’s actions in the period ahead.”

Russia has made clear it wants a written commitment that Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO and that the alliance’s military equipment will not be positioned in former Soviet states, demands that the Biden administration has rejected.

Biden told Putin a diplomatic path remains open even as the Russians have moved an estimated 100,000 troops toward Ukraine and Kremlin officials have turned up the volume on their demands for new guarantees from the U.S. and NATO.

White House officials said Biden made clear that the U.S. stands ready to exact substantial economic pain through sanctions should Putin decide to take military action in Ukraine.

Putin reacted strongly.

He “noted that it would be a mistake that our ancestors would see as a grave error. A lot of mistakes have been made over the past 30 years, and we would better avoid more such mistakes in this situation,” Ushakov said.

Russia’s demands are to be discussed during the talks in Geneva, but it remains unclear what, if anything, Biden would be willing to offer Putin in exchange for defusing the crisis.

Draft security documents Moscow submitted demand that NATO deny membership to Ukraine and other former Soviet countries and roll back military deployments in Central and Eastern Europe.

The U.S. and its allies have refused to offer Russia the kind of guarantees on Ukraine that Putin wants, citing NATO’s principle that membership is open to any qualifying country. They agreed, however, to hold talks with Russia to discuss its concerns.

The security proposal by Moscow has raised the question of whether Putin is making unrealistic demands in the expectation of a Western rejection that would give him a pretext to invade.

Steven Pifer, who served as U.S. ambassador to Ukraine in the Clinton administration, said the Biden administration could engage on some elements of Russia’s draft document if Moscow is serious about talks.

Meanwhile, key NATO members have made clear there is no appetite for expanding the alliance in the near future. The U.S. and allies could also be receptive to language in the Russians’ draft document calling for establishing new consultative mechanisms, such as the NATO-Russia Council and a hotline between NATO and Russia.

“The draft treaty’s proposed bar on any NATO military activity in Ukraine, eastern Europe, the Caucasus, or Central Asia is an overreach, but some measures to limit military exercises and activities on a reciprocal basis might be possible,” Pifer, who is now a senior fellow at Brookings Institution, wrote in an analysis for the Washington think tank.

Biden and Putin, who met in Geneva in June to discuss an array of tensions in the U.S.-Russia relationship, are not expected to take part in the January talks.

Last week, Russia test-fired Zircon hypersonic missiles, a move Russian officials said was meant to help make Russia’s push for security guarantees “more convincing.” The test was the first time Zircon missiles were launched in a salvo, indicating the completion of tests before the new missile enters service with the Russian navy next year and arms its cruisers, frigates and submarines.

U.S. intelligence earlier this month determined that Russian planning was underway for a possible military offensive that could begin as soon as early 2022, but that Putin had yet to determine whether to move forward with it.

Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s Security and Defense Council, said Thursday his country believes there is no immediate threat of a major Russian invasion.

“Our experts say that the Russian Federation just physically can’t mount a big invasion of our territory,” Danilov said. “There is a time period needed for preparations.”

The U.S. military has flown surveillance flights in Ukrainian airspace this week, including a flight Thursday by an Air Force E-8C JSTARS aircraft, according to Chuck Pritchard, a spokesman for U.S. European Command. That plane is equipped to provide intelligence on ground forces.

Russia has denied any intention of launching an invasion and, in turn, has accused Ukraine of hatching plans to try to reclaim control of territories held by Moscow-backed rebels by force. Ukraine has rejected the claim.

At the same time, Putin has warned that Moscow will have to take “adequate military-technical measures” if the West continues its “aggressive” course “on the threshold of our home.”

Last month, Putin voiced concern that NATO could potentially use the Ukrainian territory for the deployment of missiles that would be capable of reaching Moscow in just five minutes and said that Zircon would give Russia a comparable capability.

As Biden prepared for the talks with Putin, the administration also sought to highlight its commitment to Ukraine and drive home that Washington is committed to the “principle of nothing about you without you” in shaping policy that affects European allies. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke Wednesday with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Past military incursions by Putin loom large.

In 2014, Russian troops marched into the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea and seized the territory from Ukraine. Russia’s annexation of Crimea was one of the darker moments for President Barack Obama on the international stage.

The U.S.-Russia relationship was badly damaged near the end of President George W. Bush’s administration after Russia’s 2008 invasion of its neighbor Georgia after Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered his troops into the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

Biden, who is spending the week in his home state of Delaware, spoke to Putin from his home near Wilmington. The White House distributed a photo of the president speaking to the Russian leader from a desk lined with family photos.
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Holy fuck

I started this thread 4 years ago, and yea, NATO/USA/WORLD did jack shit while Russia took over Crimea & now we're fucked, or shall I say Ukraine is fucked.

Sanctions?

Do they really think that wanna-be Napoleon/crazy fuck Putin gives two shits about sanctions, or his people?
They're way of life is one big sanction & it's been like that since 1917
.
It's for the Motherland stupid!

It really is, they want a resurrected Russia, a New Russia & right now/for now Putin in his eyes & a majority if Russians eyes believe wholeheartedly that Ukraine is a part of Russia.

He's going for it because he/they doesn't/don't give a fuck

Also, those fuckers love to fight (ask Hitler :) )

Simple
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
This war is going to be INSANE!!!!!

Watch in real time from Outer Space?


Holy fuck

This is very freaky
 
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CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
Nope. Putin is going to have all those innocent civilians murdered because he wants to play dictator. And there is not shit America is able do about it without triggering a major world war.
We really do not need this,just starting to possibly be emerging from a 900k+ fatality pandemic(it's really been a out of body type of nightmare),trying to heal up from the insanity of Mr. Orange's 4 yrs.,and now Vlad has to flex.I hope he doesn't go all in on this,how many innocent Ukranians will die?I don't believe he has the number of troops needed to hold territory,I think all the new equipment he has procured is burning a hole in his pocket and like a kid w/a new bb gun he can't wait to shoot.Now with the Olympics over,if this is going to go off it will be soon,any day now and I really hope it's a no go. I'm very nervous because there is peril everywhere in this situation. I think his (Vlad's) isolation during Covid has FKD up his mind,I mean these people that he's going to kill are almost kin to Russians and I hope he stands down,point proved(you don't want Ukraine in NATO),and return troops to their bases and let Europe breath a little bit.
 

ooof-da

Well-Known Member
it would be nice if humans could get over the need to be like every other animal and kill itself. we seem to evolve with all kinds of great characteristics to survive all kinds of bad things except the need for killing each other. maybe our brains need to mature for a few more thousand years or maybe we need more strain on our species or some shit.

cue Lennons imagine
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Nope. Putin is going to have all those innocent civilians murdered because he wants to play dictator. And there is not shit America is able do about it without triggering a major world war.
Ukranian and Russians will die; the US will cripple Russia..when you have a dictator (king) there are only two solutions..we're betting on the one that will happen once we are forced to cripple the dictator + he will be driven mad because he will no longer be trusting of anyone- even his family.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
it would be nice if humans could get over the need to be like every other animal and kill itself. we seem to evolve with all kinds of great characteristics to survive all kinds of bad things except the need for killing each other. maybe our brains need to mature for a few more thousand years or maybe we need more strain on our species or some shit.

cue Lennons imagine
Still, if you unfocus your eyes enough, there has been some progress. Not necessarily linear... but I hardly ever wake up bathed in sweat with visions of an armed horde coming over the hill and killing my entire family and using our skulls as cups.

Hardly ever.
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Ukranian and Russians will die; the US will cripple Russia..when you have a dictator (king) there are only two solutions..we're betting on the one that will happen once we are forced to cripple the dictator + he will be driven mad because he will no longer be trusting of anyone- even his family.
This war makes no fucking sense
Hitler at least had clear geo-political ambitions & he let the World know it, unabashedly.
Putin is going to achieve what?
Another port?
Minerals/oil/gas?
It's not even ancestorial, they speak a different language.
The only way it could/would work is if they align with China and both focus on destroying the US after taking Ukraine.
It could be done, not militarily but economically.
A new Era is upon us I think
Think about the consequences of Technological warfare, which both Nations have used before to get into our systems.
Ukraine might just be the 1st move in what will be a long game.
Yes, this war will have Global consequences I think
No way it can't..
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
No! What do drugs do to you? Where do
I sign up to be a test pilot?
Do your like organics or chemicals?

Makes a difference.

I think my problems started in 1970 when I ate a whole of Orange Sunshine.

Shoulda cut it :)

Ever since the World has never been quite the same.


Would you like that?
PM me :)
 
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