Canada’s shameful history of marginalization exposed again.

printer

Well-Known Member
you guys must have major sex trafficking whoa! :shock: ..when i was still married to my husband he told me our TOWN had 80 KNOWN gangs
The point was that a lot of the bad now perpetrated on Natives is not by white people but themselves. There is a greater representation of Natives in prison because they get liquored up and shot the old lady because she was really ignoring me. The whole point of the residential School was to have the Natives as a productive part of society. The Churches were probably not the best to do it because their main function was to convert people for the afterlife.

A lot of harm has come from the effect of alcohol on natives. White races have lived with it for a few more thousand years and seem to have a better tolerance to it. And when you get the women drinking while being pregnant you have problems for generations due to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. The list of job positions I listed? Most are to deal with the harm the members of the bands do to each other. I showed a storied under bellied past of European immigrants. Yes, they have gone through as bad if not worse experiences. But the next generation was set up to do better than the past. The first took menial jobs and saved to put their kids to school. The next sent their kids to university rather than them taking a trade.

There are a lot of good natives, one of the first persons I had a great deal of respect for was native. He went through the Residential school system. But it is not fashonable for any who did and came out to say it did them good. Helped them get to where they are today. There is no money in it. And that is where it is right now. It is all about the money, how much can they get from the government?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
At no time did I absolve the church of their complicity, so I don’t understand why you’re bringing that up.
You spent your formative years in a church and system that perpetuated the crimes of your OP, SFX was a Catholic university. My only point really was that the abuses of the residential school system were perpetuated by the mainstream churches and enabled by the government of the day. Norms were different then, for everybody and not a whole lot that was done in those days would be acceptable today. Liberal societies can change about as fast as older generations wain and die off and not much faster or there will be trouble. The pace of change has accelerated to such a point that common behaviors of just a decade ago are now considered abhorrent in many circles. I believe society and values are now changing faster than many people can change and evolve themselves.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
what's the country you are only allowed one baby?
And why did they do that? How many people died of famine? The country could not feed itself. 1,300,000,000 people. In 1949 the government encouraged people to have more children to increase the manpower of the nation.

"There was no official policy, but government propaganda condemned contraceptives and even banned the import of some. As a result, the population of China doubled over the next few years.

The success was short lived. China’s food supply was strained and the government reversed the campaign against contraceptives. From 1959 to 1961, the Great Chinese Famine killed an estimated 15 to 30 million people."

 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Our species is over a hundred thousands years old.

Our worst is virtually lost to history is my guess.

But I would put our abuse of the Native Americans or European abuse in Africa/India during the same period as the worst in the history I know about.

So far China has seemed more to brush the line of cultural genocide, but what I have seen they have not stepped over that line of actual genocide. Yet.
I don't understand the "other nations have behaved worse" argument.

It's all wrong. As Canuck says, this isn't a competition. It's all a travesty. US needs to look at its own actions and so does Canada. Sanctions against China are appropriate for what they are doing.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The point was that a lot of the bad now perpetrated on Natives is not by white people but themselves. There is a greater representation of Natives in prison because they get liquored up and shot the old lady because she was really ignoring me. The whole point of the residential School was to have the Natives as a productive part of society.
Why was there an imperative for this and why did it have to involve cultural genocide? I do realize that there was not much of a social safety net or infrastructure at the time and productive members of society were far more important then, than the idea is today, with mechanized agriculture. Many of these people made their own living the traditional way at the time, they were already productive members of society.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the "other nations have behaved worse" argument.

It's all wrong. As Canuck says, this isn't a competition. It's all a travesty. US needs to look at it's own actions and so does Canada. Sanctions against China are appropriate for what they are doing.
Maybe it is a bit of historical yardstick to know how far off the rails we can get as a species. That way we can remember to keep an eye out for it whenever it starts sticking it's shitty little neck up.

But you are right.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The point was that a lot of the bad now perpetrated on Natives is not by white people but themselves. There is a greater representation of Natives in prison because they get liquored up and shot the old lady because she was really ignoring me. The whole point of the residential School was to have the Natives as a productive part of society. The Churches were probably not the best to do it because their main function was to convert people for the afterlife.

A lot of harm has come from the effect of alcohol on natives. White races have lived with it for a few more thousand years and seem to have a better tolerance to it. And when you get the women drinking while being pregnant you have problems for generations due to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. The list of job positions I listed? Most are to deal with the harm the members of the bands do to each other. I showed a storied under bellied past of European immigrants. Yes, they have gone through as bad if not worse experiences. But the next generation was set up to do better than the past. The first took menial jobs and saved to put their kids to school. The next sent their kids to university rather than them taking a trade.

There are a lot of good natives, one of the first persons I had a great deal of respect for was native. He went through the Residential school system. But it is not fashonable for any who did and came out to say it did them good. Helped them get to where they are today. There is no money in it. And that is where it is right now. It is all about the money, how much can they get from the government?
That right there sounds a lot like a US white supremacist in the US talking about Black people.

When an entire group of people are treated separately, deprived of their wealth, deprived of their family roots, and experience trauma associated with people living in economic hardship, we see the same issue that you describe as "the bad now perpetrated on Natives". These issues are found in areas of chronic economic hardship regardless of race.


The following is a list of family related risk factors associated with juvenile crime:
  • Inadequate or inappropriate child rearing practices,
  • Home discord
  • Maltreatment and abuse
  • Large family size
  • Parental antisocial history
  • Poverty
  • Exposure to repeated family violence
  • Divorce
  • Parental psychopathology
  • Teenage parenthood
  • A high level of parent-child conflict
  • A low level of positive parental involvement
So, your list of "bad perpetrated on Natives" is more of a sign that treatment is needed. I don't know what you are proposing be done but I like what Kamala Harris said about reparations while campaigning during the primaries last year.

unless there's intervention done, it will appear to be, perhaps, generational. But it's generational only because the environment has not experienced a significant enough change to reverse the symptoms. You need to put resources and direct resources - extra resources - into those communities that have experienced that trauma.

So, yeah, extra checks will absolutely help some people who need the help. Why not do it? But that's the easy part. The list of issues you name off sounds like a cry for treatment for trauma and addressing social inequity. Some people see issues such as alcohol abuse or high crime in an economically deprived community as being associated with race when the real issue is trauma that occurs from generations growing up in an economically distressed and traumatized neighborhood.
 
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Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Of course it is not a pretty history, guess what? The world was a cruel place. Countries went to war with each other. My dad's father was used by Polish soldiers for bayonet practice in front of him. He was sent off to Siberia for four years. The only reason he got out alive was the Red Cross would come and ask to take the most sick or malnourished, the Russians gave the people that were close to death and to used up to work any more. He came here and worked as a laborer for peanuts, rolled up American dollars and hidden inside Life Savor candies to his brothers and sisters on the other side of the Iron Curtain. They managed to escape to the West and emigrated here.

Mother's family had the same ordeal, Her dad taken away to prison by the Polish (mom and day only met here, they grew up in different parts of the country) as he was one of the few people that could read and has the most official person in the village because of it. Their farm confiscated, Grandma managed to get seven kids through a war zone (my mother was the eldest at 16). Soldiers came, their commander wanted to have a woman for the night, they grabbed my mother's mom. The sergeant said they can't take her, she is a little pregnant, the commander would not want that. They grabbed a 17 year old girl that worked as a nurse. She ended up crawling back to the village and dying the next day from being gang raped and losing too much blood. With barely anything my grandmother manage to get the kids to Germany, paid smugglers to get them across a forest at night. The whole story could fill out a page here.

And every DP, immigrant, after the war in our neighborhood had an equal story how they survived. One day in highschool, the teacher in my sister's class said something about in the neighborhood most everyone in the class had been abused. A girl laughed, "No way." and she looked around and everyone in the class was silent. Everybody knew it was true. A dirty little secret no one talked about. It never happened. Go on with life. My sister went to a reunion of friends a few years back. After a lot of drinking, bonding again, people aside would tell stories about what really was happening behind closed doors. And families looking all prim and proper Sunday morning for Church. I remember being at a friend's house hiding in the basement with him from his step dad who was pissed, slammed around his wife, raped his step daughter. Wasn't even a teenager then, didn't know what to to but be quiet.

The rash of suicides that comes up on reserves once in a while? It is not because the kids are missing their favorite TV channel. Same thing. Don't give out any dirty laundry and blame everything on Residential Schools. Sorry, I have seen kids get worse, some repeated the cycle, some said "I will not be like you, I will treat my kids how I wanted to be treated." But the Native leaders want to get political power and will ignore the plight of their people. Blame Whitey" We have a Commission of Missing and Murdered Aboriginal Women.

"In 2015, close to one half (48%) of all solved homicides involving a female victim were committed by a spouse or other intimate partner. Family members (other than a parent) were perpetrators in 22 percent of female homicides, followed by casual acquaintances (14%), parents (6%), strangers (6%), and criminal acquaintances (3%). In contrast, males were most often killed by a casual acquaintance (45%), criminal acquaintance (16%) or a stranger (16%)."

"In 2015, approximately 16 percent of female homicides remained unsolved at the time of reporting to the Homicide Survey compared to 29 percent of male homicides.[ii] The percentage of unsolved homicides has increased significantly since Homicide Survey data collection began in 1961. For example, in 1961 approximately five percent of homicides involving a female victim and 6 percent involving a male victim remained unsolved. The increasing proportion of homicides that remain unsolved has been largely attributed to the increasing complexity of cases involving criminal acquaintances and gangs. On average, homicide incidents involving spouses and family members are solved more quickly than those involving perpetrators with greater social distance from the offender."

"This over-representation of Indigenous women and girls among homicide victims has been observed across the country, with the highest rates found in the territories and in the provinces of Manitoba, Alberta and Saskatchewan. In Manitoba and Saskatchewan, specifically, it has been estimated that Indigenous women and girls are 19 times more likely than Caucasian women to be murdered or missing."

And Canada was taken to task over the Native women that have been killed, even though a large majority of the cases are perpetrated by their own community. It is being labeled a genocide, even though Indigenous population is increasing.
I have a friend who takes in native foster kids and see the ugly shit they grow up in. The government (First Nations), in trying to do right by these kids, actually can and do cause more trauma all in the name of keeping these kids in their birth homes way longer than they should. They do this partly because of the legacy of the schools. Yes it’s a complexed set of issues and I think most Canadians that live in urban areas (the majority) don’t see or care to try solve them.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I have a friend who takes in native foster kids and see the ugly shit they grow up in. The government (First Nations), in trying to do right by these kids, actually can and do cause more trauma all in the name of keeping these kids in their birth homes way longer than they should. They do this partly because of the legacy of the schools. Yes it’s a complexed set of issues and I think most Canadians that live in urban areas (the majority) don’t see or care to try solve them.
It would be good if people could get grants for studies to find out what works and what doesn't. That's what Harris proposed when she talked about reparations and right wingers acted as if she had just sacrificed a sacred cow.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I have a friend who takes in native foster kids and see the ugly shit they grow up in. The government (First Nations), in trying to do right by these kids, actually can and do cause more trauma all in the name of keeping these kids in their birth homes way longer than they should. They do this partly because of the legacy of the schools. Yes it’s a complexed set of issues and I think most Canadians that live in urban areas (the majority) don’t see or care to try solve them.
They also don't see them as a threat and there is not much public or political opposition to doing right by these people. As for people living in cities, the native population of Winnipeg is fairly large and some of them are unfortunately very visible, for all the wrong reasons, the ones who aren't visible are the majority who work and live regular lives. Winnipeg is one of the most bigoted Canadian cities, I lived there for over 20 years.

As Winnipeg's Indigenous population continues to grow, the city is also becoming less segregated, says a new report from Statistics Canada. ... In 2016, the Indigenous people made up 4.9 per cent of the total population in Canada. In Winnipeg, which had the largest Indigenous population (92,310), the percentage was 12.1.Dec. 10, 2019

Winnipeg's Indigenous population less segregated but still in ...
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Why was there an imperative for this and why did it have to involve cultural genocide? I do realize that there was not much of a social safety net or infrastructure at the time and productive members of society were far more important then, than the idea is today, with mechanized agriculture. Many of these people made their own living the traditional way at the time, they were already productive members of society.
Cultural genocide? What, sing traditional songs? Most kids want to be Black hiphop stars, gangbangers.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Cultural genocide? What, sing traditional songs? Most kids want to be Black hiphop stars, gangbangers.
When you beat someone's religious beliefs and culture out of them, then substitute your own, and punish them for using their native language, that's cultural genocide. Today the pernicious influence of mass culture and communications are doing the job on everybody, all cultures are under assault, but back then it was done with violence and threats of violence. People need to be able to adapt at their own pace and have the freedom to do it in their own time, from the foundation of their own culture, not have it violently ripped off their young children by religious lunatics and hypocrites.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
That right there sounds a lot like a US white supremacist in the US talking about Black people.

When an entire group of people are treated separately, deprived of their wealth, deprived of their family roots, and experience trauma associated with people living in economic hardship, we see the same issue that you describe as "the bad now perpetrated on Natives". These issues are found in areas of chronic economic hardship regardless of race.


The following is a list of family related risk factors associated with juvenile crime:
  • Inadequate or inappropriate child rearing practices,
  • Home discord
  • Maltreatment and abuse
  • Large family size
  • Parental antisocial history
  • Poverty
  • Exposure to repeated family violence
  • Divorce
  • Parental psychopathology
  • Teenage parenthood
  • A high level of parent-child conflict
  • A low level of positive parental involvement
So, your list of "bad perpetrated on Natives" is more of a sign that treatment is needed. I don't know what you are proposing be done but I like what Kamala Harris said about reparations while campaigning during the primaries last year.

unless there's intervention done, it will appear to be, perhaps, generational. But it's generational only because the environment has not experienced a significant enough change to reverse the symptoms. You need to put resources and direct resources - extra resources - into those communities that have experienced that trauma.

So, yeah, extra checks will absolutely help some people who need the help. Why not do it? But that's the easy part. The list of issues you name off sounds like a cry for treatment for trauma and addressing social inequity. Some people see issues such as alcohol abuse or high crime in an economically deprived community as being associated with race when the real issue is trauma that occurs from generations growing up in an economically distressed and traumatized neighborhood.
And that is what I get, what do you know about Black people? Well we have our own version, the troubles coming from the same roots. And I agree, some kids never seen food cooked from the raw state. One of the Natives that I was usually partnered up liked wilted lettuce on a sandwich. One of the other guys said he doesn't have to eat it, why does he. He said it reminded him of eating when he was a kid. It tasted so good because he was hungry, he didn't know it was suppose to be crispy. He still eats it because to him it is something he looked forward to when he was a kid.

My dad, you would think that he would have hated eating potatoes because it was all he had when he was in Siberia. He only got to cook the peels of the potatoes that were scrounged from the kitchen scraps fed the guards. To him, the potato meant life. I ate a lot of potatoes growing up.

But people who have gone through bad times got themselves out of it, my lettuce eating buddy also. Had a foreman in the brewery that also said that he can do better. My mother had some topsoil delivered to her place. She invited the guy and his pre-teenager son in for some coffee and some cookies (kid got milk) The kid wanted another cookie but the dad gave him a stern look, one was enough. He was teaching his son manners. In the end the kid was allowed another one. Had a live firing range here for the German army. They shipped solders here, one got involved with a cousin of mine and they eventually got married. At one of the first large family gatherings we had with him there, the table was filled with different types of food, he took a plate of something that was his favorite and put them all on his plate. We wondered who brought him up?

So yes, a lot of us grew up disadvantaged and did things the hard way. Spent only as much money we had, actually less, putting some away for the future. Others did not. When one person puts some away and the other does not and then both hit hard times and the one is hungry, which one are we going to help out? My summer childhood was filled with weeding fields so we could save a few bucks on food. It is expensive for fresh vegetables to be flown up to the reserves. Do what my parents did, Chop down some trees, make a place to grow a few vegetables. Keep a few chickens, rabbits, a pig.

Sure, most of the band members never grew a thing in their life. But their leaders could scrape together some knowledge to convince some of them to try. Plant a seed and see if it will grow. The people are on the land for generations and they have no vision for what they can leave for others? Because in a few generations the sons of their sons will be there. So why not try and make a better place for others? Oh right, "What is in it for me?" At another place I worked, a partner there had a Native neighbor. They were talking over the fence and saw a car pull up down the street, some Natives get out and walk a number of houses down. The Native neighbor said he was calling the cops. My work buddy asked why. He said Native do not walk any farther than they have to, they could have parked closer, they are here to cause trouble. they broke into a house.

So do I sound racist? I am just telling stories from my past, what Natives I had known talked to me about. I have known a lot of people with troubled pasts. The ones that tried to get out of it did. The ones that wanted someone else to get them out of it didn't. that is all I really have tried to say.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
When you beat someone's religious beliefs and culture out of them, then substitute your own, and punish them for using their native language, that's cultural genocide. Today the pernicious influence of mass culture and communications are doing the job on everybody, all cultures are under assault, but back then it was done with violence and threats of violence. People need to be able to adapt at their own pace and have the freedom to do it in their own time, from the foundation of their own culture, not have it violently ripped off their young children by religious lunatics and hypocrites.
So I had lost my culture, My parents did not manage to instill the mother tongue into me, I walked away from the religion, darn rock and roll corrupted me. The BS about stolen culture and language is just that. Easy to complain about when you don't make an effort to keep it. Sorry, go tell that to a Jew.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Thought you should know, your posts on this thread are displaying a bias.
I know. Why am I telling the other side of the story? Because no one else is. There is no balance to the story. It is all one sided. Sorry, that is not reality. that was like the thread on the big bad Israelis and the Palestinians. No one was mentioning the rockets, why the houses were blown up. You are never going to fix a problem when you only tell one side of the story. I know it is politically incorrect for me to say in some reserves everyone has been sexually abused. And not by white people. But without that context, how do you fix the rash of child suicides? No, we will not talk about that. But gee, why are the kids killing themselves? Must be the water.

Oh right, thought I did mention it before. Natives were good enough to have me have one as a girlfriend and currently my closest friend.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I know. Why am I telling the other side of the story? Because no one else is. There is no balance to the story. It is all one sided. Sorry, that is not reality. that was like the thread on the big bad Israelis and the Palestinians. No one was mentioning the rockets, why the houses were blown up. You are never going to fix a problem when you only tell one side of the story. I know it is politically incorrect for me to say in some reserves everyone has been sexually abused. And not by white people. But without that context, how do you fix the rash of child suicides? No, we will not talk about that. But gee, why are the kids killing themselves? Must be the water.

Oh right, thought I did mention it before. Natives were good enough to have me have one as a girlfriend and currently my closest friend.
Your absolutism is what is bullshit about the rant you been on for the last few posts man.

 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
I know. Why am I telling the other side of the story? Because no one else is. There is no balance to the story. It is all one sided. Sorry, that is not reality. that was like the thread on the big bad Israelis and the Palestinians. No one was mentioning the rockets, why the houses were blown up. You are never going to fix a problem when you only tell one side of the story. I know it is politically incorrect for me to say in some reserves everyone has been sexually abused. And not by white people. But without that context, how do you fix the rash of child suicides? No, we will not talk about that. But gee, why are the kids killing themselves? Must be the water.

Oh right, thought I did mention it before. Natives were good enough to have me have one as a girlfriend and currently my closest friend.
This purpose of this thread was to share a story about the horrors indigenous children faced in government sponsored residential schools. Talking about the home life of indigenous children on the reserve is not talking about “the other side of the story”. It’s talking about something else.
 
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