numberfour
Well-Known Member
Seed run with a high volume of plants. No training just topped to produce a couple of tops
The far red thread
- Thread starter Rahz
- Start date
Whats the watts per square foot that you want the far red? And what distance from canopy? I've been trying to figure out how many I need for a 4x8 table and the distance from eachother and the canopy they need?
Or just get a strip and put them in the top corners shining down kinda diagonal. Or used as side lighting. Someone help my brain please
Or just get a strip and put them in the top corners shining down kinda diagonal. Or used as side lighting. Someone help my brain please
DCcan
Well-Known Member
Every light is different, depends on what spectrum and intensity you start with is one answer.
Red for end of day or red for growth would get you another answer.
Most people just pick a wattage and add 10-15% reds diffused across their light bars for simplicity.
How to control them brings up more decisions based on what you are doing with red
numberfour
Well-Known Member
I'm using / trying for the first time 20w of far red (they're in a block rather than strips) around 12 -15" from the canopy.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Theres a sorta formula per m2 (a 8x4 is around 3m2)
Wattage x time in seconds x ppf/w = 3000-4000.
So assuming ppf of 3.0 , 10 watts per m2 and 30w in total: you get approximately 100 seconds.
Ok. Now it makes sense. Thanks for this
vitalsine
Well-Known Member
What bulbs/lights are you using? They're just a 20w fixture/bulb? I am super interested in this, I love the idea. Would def invest in something like this.
numberfour
Well-Known Member
Its a fixture with 20x double 45mil Epileds chips with 120° light angle. Stoner moment
45w not 20w. These were the only 660nm and 730nm lights I could just purchase due to covid making delivery times way out of my flowering time frame.730nm on right
vitalsine
Well-Known Member
Sweet! Did you wire these up yourself? I'd prefer strips like yours but having a hard time finding anything similar on Amazon. I did come across some bulbs that might, I was thinking of grabbing two 660nm and two 730nm... would these work?Its a fixture with 20x double 45mil Epileds chips with 120° light angle. Stoner moment
730nm on right
View attachment 4667204
Amazon.com : HIGROW 36W All Deep Red 660nm LED Grow Light Bulb for Indoor Plants Flowering Bloom and Fruiting, Grow Spectrum Enhancement : Garden & Outdoor
Amazon.com : HIGROW 36W All Deep Red 660nm LED Grow Light Bulb for Indoor Plants Flowering Bloom and Fruiting, Grow Spectrum Enhancement : Garden & Outdoor
www.amazon.com
I figure because it is only supplemental, running for 20 mins before/after lights, they should do the trick?
**EDIT** I lied, I can't find any 730nm bulbs lol.
Just stumbled across this:
730nm FGI Far Red LED Grow Light, 4’ long. Commercial Grade. – Forever Green Indoors
Premium quality Far Red LED Grow Light designed by Forever Green Indoors. 730nm dedicated diodes. 6’ power cord included. Waterproof aluminum case.
forevergreenindoors.com
Would one of those be enough for a 5x5 for lights off?
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numberfour
Well-Known Member
No they came plug and play, I've sent you a DM with the sellers info.Sweet! Did you wire these up yourself? I'd prefer strips like yours but having a hard time finding anything similar on Amazon. I did come across some bulbs that might, I was thinking of grabbing two 660nm and two 730nm... would these work?
Amazon.com : HIGROW 36W All Deep Red 660nm LED Grow Light Bulb for Indoor Plants Flowering Bloom and Fruiting, Grow Spectrum Enhancement : Garden & Outdoor
Amazon.com : HIGROW 36W All Deep Red 660nm LED Grow Light Bulb for Indoor Plants Flowering Bloom and Fruiting, Grow Spectrum Enhancement : Garden & Outdoorwww.amazon.com
I figure because it is only supplemental, running for 20 mins before/after lights, they should do the trick?
**EDIT** I lied, I can't find any 730nm bulbs lol.
Just stumbled across this:
730nm FGI Far Red LED Grow Light, 4’ long. Commercial Grade. – Forever Green Indoors
Premium quality Far Red LED Grow Light designed by Forever Green Indoors. 730nm dedicated diodes. 6’ power cord included. Waterproof aluminum case.
Would one of those be enough for a 5x5 for lights off?
Cutter, HLG, Rapid Led and a few other companies do stand alone far reds in pucks / strips etc, defo worth checking out
Timings are up to you, this thread has has a few different ones mentioned, 20 minutes may cause excessive stretch with the far reds.
I'm probably not the best person to ask tbh, there are people with a lot more experience in this thread than me, but the forevergreen website states the light will fully cover a 4' wide grow tray. May be worth contacting them and seeing how much the light diminishes after the 4'.
DCcan
Well-Known Member
These ones on Ebay are nice ~20 watt, 24v 700ma
Epileds, not Samsung, not copper, aluminum base despite the packaging.
I suspect that is Alibaba packaging, the pricing is good though.
I got a bunch of them, run great and in stock.
Power supplies are dirt cheap for these, wide variety will work .
Red Booster Sun Board 24v Samsung 48 LED Strip 660nm 730nm IR
Epileds, not Samsung, not copper, aluminum base despite the packaging.
I suspect that is Alibaba packaging, the pricing is good though.
I got a bunch of them, run great and in stock.
Power supplies are dirt cheap for these, wide variety will work .
Red Booster Sun Board 24v Samsung 48 LED Strip 660nm 730nm IR
Barristan Whitebeard
Well-Known Member
"The Far Red Lightbar covers up to a 5’ x 12” area with very even intensity at 30” above canopy. It will cover a much larger area when used during lights off to manage the Emerson Effect in cannabis."Sweet! Did you wire these up yourself? I'd prefer strips like yours but having a hard time finding anything similar on Amazon. I did come across some bulbs that might, I was thinking of grabbing two 660nm and two 730nm... would these work?
Amazon.com : HIGROW 36W All Deep Red 660nm LED Grow Light Bulb for Indoor Plants Flowering Bloom and Fruiting, Grow Spectrum Enhancement : Garden & Outdoor
Amazon.com : HIGROW 36W All Deep Red 660nm LED Grow Light Bulb for Indoor Plants Flowering Bloom and Fruiting, Grow Spectrum Enhancement : Garden & Outdoorwww.amazon.com
I figure because it is only supplemental, running for 20 mins before/after lights, they should do the trick?
**EDIT** I lied, I can't find any 730nm bulbs lol.
Just stumbled across this:
730nm FGI Far Red LED Grow Light, 4’ long. Commercial Grade. – Forever Green Indoors
Premium quality Far Red LED Grow Light designed by Forever Green Indoors. 730nm dedicated diodes. 6’ power cord included. Waterproof aluminum case.
Would one of those be enough for a 5x5 for lights off?
According to the FGI website, the far red light bar covers up to 5 square feet at 30" above the canopy when used in conjunction with main lighting.
The information becomes vaguer after that regarding the coverage of the light bar when used while the main lights are off. Whoever wrote the webpage is also mistaking early flower initiation for the Emerson Effect (which requires the main lights to be on with the far red light bar of course).
You could try contacting FGI and ask them if they have an actual recommendation for coverage area of the light bar when used as a flowering initiator.
Barristan Whitebeard
Well-Known Member
HLG sells a Flowering initiator Far Red Bulb. Peak wavelength: 730nm.
Flowering Initiator Far Red Bulb
HLG SABER High efficiency waterproof Full Spectrum LED BAR. Each Bar can be powered up to 120 watts. Passive cooled 36V design and 4ft length provides a great spread with minimal shadows. Does not include power supply.
horticulturelightinggroup.com
I've also seen some bulb lights in this wavelength being sold on eBay.
vitalsine
Well-Known Member
I actually scooped one of those HLG bulbs last night. Got a cpl clamp fixtures as well. Now just gonna grab a 660nm.HLG sells a Flowering initiator Far Red Bulb. Peak wavelength: 730nm.
Flowering Initiator Far Red Bulb
HLG SABER High efficiency waterproof Full Spectrum LED BAR. Each Bar can be powered up to 120 watts. Passive cooled 36V design and 4ft length provides a great spread with minimal shadows. Does not include power supply.
I've also seen some bulb lights in this wavelength being sold on eBay.
mauricem00
Well-Known Member
most studies I have found use 365nm because this is the absorption peak for fluorescent materials and commonly used in black lights but the absorption spectrum seems to be broader for plants
vitalsine
Well-Known Member
So I need a tldr; lol. I now have 2 35w 660nm bulbs and 2 15w 730nm bulbs. From some reading I did in this thread and elsewhere, I kick the 660nm on for 10 mins (comes on 7min before lights on) and then at lights off the 730nm kicks on (comes on 3 mins before lights off). Now to achieve the Emerson effect, do I have to run these during my normal light schedule? From what I can tell you have to run both spectrums at once to induce the effect. I know I could skim the 100 pages of this thread but hoping someone can save me the time and chime in now that I have everything in place.
**EDIT**
So here is what I have come up with...
Flower Week 1-3
7:53PM 660nm bulbs on
8:00PM LEDs on
8:03PM 660nm bulbs off
7:57AM 730nm bulbs on
8:00AM LEDs off
8:07AM 730nm bulbs off
Flower Week 4-~10
7:53PM 660nm on
8:00PM LEDs and 730nm on
8:00AM LEDs and 660nm off
8:07AM 730nm off
Anyone with some knowledge on this subject would be awesome if you could chime in! THANKS!
**EDIT**
So here is what I have come up with...
Flower Week 1-3
7:53PM 660nm bulbs on
8:00PM LEDs on
8:03PM 660nm bulbs off
7:57AM 730nm bulbs on
8:00AM LEDs off
8:07AM 730nm bulbs off
Flower Week 4-~10
7:53PM 660nm on
8:00PM LEDs and 730nm on
8:00AM LEDs and 660nm off
8:07AM 730nm off
Anyone with some knowledge on this subject would be awesome if you could chime in! THANKS!
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mauricem00
Well-Known Member
your plants would benefit from running 660nm during the entire lights on period and then 730nm for 10 minutes after lights out and maybe a few minutes mid day to get the Emerson effect but keep in mind that greenhouses use deep red to prevent flowering during fall and winter. I'm a T5 grower but use LED pontoons during flowering and running 730nm for 10 minutrs after lights out lets me flower on a 13.5/10.5 light schedule
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Hey guys 
I've recently installed a 12 x 730nm Cree XP-E2 Far red board into my garden - now I have 2 x QB288 v1 boards and 2 x QB288 v2 boards I also installed 24 x 680nm XPG-3 photo red diodes via 2 more boards. . I've spent the last couple of days reading this thread lol.
I want to do end of day far red initiation.
Going by whats been stated in this thread I want around 3000 - 4000 umol/m2 to initiate plant sleep without causing excess stretching.
I've only got 1 plant and its canopy will probably not extend much beyond 1m2.
From the Cree XP-E2 Data sheet (https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLampXPE2.pdf - page 15) it says that each LED emits about 2.1umol/s. So 12 x 2.1 umol/s = 25.2 umol/s emitting from the strip so to get 3000umol/m2 it would take about 120 seconds and for 4000 it would take about 160 seconds.
Are these calculations right? Should I only be running the far red for between 120 - 140 seconds after lights out? This seems to short to me with everyone saying either 5 or 15 minutes...
Perhaps @Randomblame could chime in?
Thanks for your help guys.
I've recently installed a 12 x 730nm Cree XP-E2 Far red board into my garden - now I have 2 x QB288 v1 boards and 2 x QB288 v2 boards I also installed 24 x 680nm XPG-3 photo red diodes via 2 more boards. . I've spent the last couple of days reading this thread lol.
I want to do end of day far red initiation.
Going by whats been stated in this thread I want around 3000 - 4000 umol/m2 to initiate plant sleep without causing excess stretching.
I've only got 1 plant and its canopy will probably not extend much beyond 1m2.
From the Cree XP-E2 Data sheet (https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLampXPE2.pdf - page 15) it says that each LED emits about 2.1umol/s. So 12 x 2.1 umol/s = 25.2 umol/s emitting from the strip so to get 3000umol/m2 it would take about 120 seconds and for 4000 it would take about 160 seconds.
Are these calculations right? Should I only be running the far red for between 120 - 140 seconds after lights out? This seems to short to me with everyone saying either 5 or 15 minutes...
Perhaps @Randomblame could chime in?
Thanks for your help guys.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
2.1 umols will be relative to a certain wattage per diode. If you allready controlled for this, then yeah, youre right. Most people run too much eod far red, usually cause people was using mechanical timers with lowest time interval being 15 min. Random is sadly a bit MIA but im.familiar with his calculations.Hey guys
I've recently installed a 12 x 730nm Cree XP-E2 Far red board into my garden - now I have 2 x QB288 v1 boards and 2 x QB288 v2 boards I also installed 24 x 680nm XPG-3 photo red diodes via 2 more boards. . I've spent the last couple of days reading this thread lol.
I want to do end of day far red initiation.
Going by whats been stated in this thread I want around 3000 - 4000 umol/m2 to initiate plant sleep without causing excess stretching.
I've only got 1 plant and its canopy will probably not extend much beyond 1m2.
From the Cree XP-E2 Data sheet (https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLampXPE2.pdf - page 15) it says that each LED emits about 2.1umol/s. So 12 x 2.1 umol/s = 25.2 umol/s emitting from the strip so to get 3000umol/m2 it would take about 120 seconds and for 4000 it would take about 160 seconds.
Are these calculations right? Should I only be running the far red for between 120 - 140 seconds after lights out? This seems to short to me with everyone saying either 5 or 15 minutes...
Perhaps @Randomblame could chime in?
Thanks for your help guys.