Blue brother
Well-Known Member
UVA bar is going in the middle, will it be ok at the 30” recommended hanging distance of the 650r?
The far red thread
- Thread starter Rahz
- Start date
Then I'd put it beside the UVA, don't think distance is an issue.
Blue brother
Well-Known Member
Brilliant mate thanks
Bukvičák
Well-Known Member
Hey Geez, I have a question about EoD treatment. Is it possible to “over” saturate plant with FR and whats the consequence of that?
I have bought HLG bulb expecting more info in the package than its given on their website, but there were only bulb and protection foam in the white box. I did not know what should I think about that so I wrote to customer support asking them for help.
They answered copy&paste way plus added 10mins before and 10 mins after lights off. I realized they wont be helpful so much as well as not fully understand what I am asking. Few mails further they have finally provided some numbers.
Each bulb contains 9 pieces FR Seoul Semiconductor SZRF5A0B J2 LEDs.
If I steal the formula from this thread and do the math…
Step 1: LED is rated @2.2V that will be run on 0.350mA, so 2.2 X 0.350 = 0,770W
Step 2: I got 9 of them in the bulb, so 0,770 X 9 = 6,93 W
Step 3: Result X PPF for those leds PPF is 2.34, so 6,93 X 2.34 = 16,21 umol/s
Step 4: Result X time in sec lets say 1min (60), so 16,21 X 60 = 973 umol/min
Step 5: Result divided by space in square meters (reccomended 1,5x1,5 is 2,25 m2), so 973 / 2,25 = 432 umol/min per m2
Step 6: for EoD 3000 to 4000 umols I need 7 to 9,25 minutes of running that bulb (in 1,5x1,5m)
Can somebody check it and say if it is correct or not…? Did I go wrong in first two steps when they claim the bulb is 15W? @Rocket Soul
Thanks in advance
I have bought HLG bulb expecting more info in the package than its given on their website, but there were only bulb and protection foam in the white box. I did not know what should I think about that so I wrote to customer support asking them for help.
They answered copy&paste way plus added 10mins before and 10 mins after lights off. I realized they wont be helpful so much as well as not fully understand what I am asking. Few mails further they have finally provided some numbers.
Each bulb contains 9 pieces FR Seoul Semiconductor SZRF5A0B J2 LEDs.
If I steal the formula from this thread and do the math…
Step 1: LED is rated @2.2V that will be run on 0.350mA, so 2.2 X 0.350 = 0,770W
Step 2: I got 9 of them in the bulb, so 0,770 X 9 = 6,93 W
Step 3: Result X PPF for those leds PPF is 2.34, so 6,93 X 2.34 = 16,21 umol/s
Step 4: Result X time in sec lets say 1min (60), so 16,21 X 60 = 973 umol/min
Step 5: Result divided by space in square meters (reccomended 1,5x1,5 is 2,25 m2), so 973 / 2,25 = 432 umol/min per m2
Step 6: for EoD 3000 to 4000 umols I need 7 to 9,25 minutes of running that bulb (in 1,5x1,5m)
Can somebody check it and say if it is correct or not…? Did I go wrong in first two steps when they claim the bulb is 15W? @Rocket Soul
Thanks in advance
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Almost, so close...
"Step 3: Result X PPF for those leds PPF is 2.34, so 6,93 X 2.34 = 16,21 umol/s"
You should use 3.04 instead of 2.34 in this step; 2.34 is total ppf for the .77w diode, 3.04 is ppf/w. Or alternatively just use 9 x 2.34, as the datasheet tells total output in ppf per diode you can make this short cut, no actual need to calculate it with efficiency.
If you over saturate with far red you will see bolting/stretch especially right underneath the bulb.
You also need to consider spread and intensity, especially if the bulb is hanging lower than 2 feet or so: cannopy directly under the light will get more far red than the sides/rest of cannopy and this may result in stretch.
You can try this: once your out of stretch phase start the EOD with 5 mins before lights off and 2 mins after, if no stretch or undesirable happens after a week then try adding a minute of after lights out. If you still don't see anything bad happen go up another minute. Using the new numbers and guesstimating spread I'd say your sweet spot is probably somewhere between 3-5 minutes. Identify it on your frost grow and then stick to those numbers.
A few notes: different strains react differently to far red, you may see some plants stretch with very little after light out far red.
With only one point of light in the middle the spread isn't going to be perfectly even, this might mean plants on the sides will ripen slower than the plants right under the bulb.
Try a little first before trying more. You could even try using the bulb during lights on but probably not the whole day. Maybe a few mins per hour.
As for stretching: the main reason for possible stretch is too much far red after lights out, while lights are on there is some 660nm light that can counter act stretch. But I would use the light all day unless veerry high hung.
Also
props for trying to figure out the numbers yourself
Bukvičák
Well-Known Member
Thank you for an instant and exhausting answer. Actually I have two bulbs in space 1,5x2,6m where there is a trelis 1,2x1,5m in the midlle of the space and they are situated on the edge of trelis. There is a sketch for imagination.Almost, so close...
"Step 3: Result X PPF for those leds PPF is 2.34, so 6,93 X 2.34 = 16,21 umol/s"
You should use 3.04 instead of 2.34 in this step; 2.34 is total ppf for the .77w diode, 3.04 is ppf/w. Or alternatively just use 9 x 2.34, as the datasheet tells total output in ppf per diode you can make this short cut, no actual need to calculate it with efficiency.
If you over saturate with far red you will see bolting/stretch especially right underneath the bulb.
You also need to consider spread and intensity, especially if the bulb is hanging lower than 2 feet or so: cannopy directly under the light will get more far red than the sides/rest of cannopy and this may result in stretch.
You can try this: once your out of stretch phase start the EOD with 5 mins before lights off and 2 mins after, if no stretch or undesirable happens after a week then try adding a minute of after lights out. If you still don't see anything bad happen go up another minute. Using the new numbers and guesstimating spread I'd say your sweet spot is probably somewhere between 3-5 minutes. Identify it on your frost grow and then stick to those numbers.
A few notes: different strains react differently to far red, you may see some plants stretch with very little after light out far red.
With only one point of light in the middle the spread isn't going to be perfectly even, this might mean plants on the sides will ripen slower than the plants right under the bulb.
Try a little first before trying more. You could even try using the bulb during lights on but probably not the whole day. Maybe a few mins per hour.
As for stretching: the main reason for possible stretch is too much far red after lights out, while lights are on there is some 660nm light that can counter act stretch. But I would use the light all day unless veerry high hung.
Also
They might be pointed inwards but I would like to do it KISS. I am on loft so my headroom is not premium and I might end up with like 50cm from my street light. Thats why I am aware of too much FR obviously causing stretch but I hope that two scrog nets and supercropping can help me handle that. My bigger concern is about hermies and reveg honestly. I thought that HPS have enough of FR so no need to turn it on when lights on, what do you think? Also how should I count that space in my case? Maybe I might be counting with too big space when my plants will be only 1,2x1,5m. I am kinda confused and maybe just overthinking it. Thank you for share your knowledges.
Bukvičák
Well-Known Member
Than the result change to 5,3 to 7,14 minutes in space 1,5x1,5 with one bulb…Almost, so close...
"Step 3: Result X PPF for those leds PPF is 2.34, so 6,93 X 2.34 = 16,21 umol/s"
You should use 3.04 instead of 2.34 in this step; 2.34 is total ppf for the .77w diode, 3.04 is ppf/w. Or alternatively just use 9 x 2.34, as the datasheet tells total output in ppf per diode you can make this short cut, no actual need to calculate it with efficiency.
If you over saturate with far red you will see bolting/stretch especially right underneath the bulb.
You also need to consider spread and intensity, especially if the bulb is hanging lower than 2 feet or so: cannopy directly under the light will get more far red than the sides/rest of cannopy and this may result in stretch.
You can try this: once your out of stretch phase start the EOD with 5 mins before lights off and 2 mins after, if no stretch or undesirable happens after a week then try adding a minute of after lights out. If you still don't see anything bad happen go up another minute. Using the new numbers and guesstimating spread I'd say your sweet spot is probably somewhere between 3-5 minutes. Identify it on your frost grow and then stick to those numbers.
A few notes: different strains react differently to far red, you may see some plants stretch with very little after light out far red.
With only one point of light in the middle the spread isn't going to be perfectly even, this might mean plants on the sides will ripen slower than the plants right under the bulb.
Try a little first before trying more. You could even try using the bulb during lights on but probably not the whole day. Maybe a few mins per hour.
As for stretching: the main reason for possible stretch is too much far red after lights out, while lights are on there is some 660nm light that can counter act stretch. But I would use the light all day unless veerry high hung.
Also
Bukvičák
Well-Known Member
I am also just at the beggining of LST so like 3 weeks more and I plant to turn them on around 2 weeks after flip to flower and change the schedule for 13-11. And that making me concerning about too much FR together with that one more hour of light can kick them back in veg. That 10+10 is total suicide IMo. I would say I might be golden around 3 mins after. If you have time to check that setup and say your opinion…?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
I've never seen anyone doing eod with hps. Some say that the afterglow of when the HPS turns off already does some kind of end of day, but I don't have any proofs of it.
Basicly: Same advice as before but start out with 2 mins after your main light goes out, and if no probs go to 3.
Basicly: Same advice as before but start out with 2 mins after your main light goes out, and if no probs go to 3.
Bukvičák
Well-Known Member
I read that also, but I doubt that 15 seconds of glow do something. Anyway thanks for advices and I am glad you wrote those numbers, honestly that is what I was thinking it might be enough for the beginning. If I am not lazy, I will update 3-4 months later. Thank you @Rocket Soul
2cent
Well-Known Member
Seen that spectrum? Wowe cant get that on digi key