Nutrient Ratios Information

[Diatomacious]

I downloaded HydroBuddy but haven't learned to use it yet... I'm still plug and chug with the Casio for most of my calculations.

Your micros look pretty good as far as I know... here's what I'm targeting

Fe 0.3-3
Mn 0.1-3
Zn 0.1-2
Cu 0.05-0.5
B 0.05-0.5
Mo 0.01-0.2
Na 0-150
Cl 0-100

These are just common knowledge values off the internet and I'm thinking actual values could be much lower for a feed every water schedule (just previous experience). That's for soilless (peat or coco) where some of the nutrient will stick in the soil and build up over time (think flushing excess salts). I have yet to try adding silicon, cobalt, nickel or any of the other newer micros.



Above is an image of a soil analysis for Pro Mix BX... what I can get around here... they add a starter charge to the mix so values are probably inflated over what peat itself would return but sulfur is already excessive at 80 ppm and Zinc at 1 ppm with nothing but water added by me (and that was captured rainwater). EC is 0.79 right out of the bag so flushing is probably recommended before beginning a nutrient regimen to avoid salt burn (probably why your mix did not work for the other guy). As far as nutrient values go... coco is probably better than peat but you have to keep close tabs on the pH as coco has no buffer system like peat.

 

[Skybound420]

I found on 420 a recipe to make ProMix called Faux mix. Basically just 3CF of peat, 2CF of perlite and some dolemite to reprogram the buffer. That's what I'm getting into except I am now trying to reverse engineer DB's High Brix Blend from the values given in the guaranteed analysis. I discovered a way to trick hydro buddy so I can formulate soil compositions. So now I can input things like Soft Rock Phosphate, or Limestone and calculate them all together to resolve my targets. A lot of trial and error will be needed to perfect the recipe, but as long as my plants don't die, I'll be just fine.

IMO, your Na max is way too high, so is Cl. I've read 30ppm of Na is where problems start to happen, and it's my experience that cannabis is a pussy when it comes to testing the max ranges of things. The EC of my regimens is 1.3 and 1.4. I've read threads that go up to about 2.5EC, but I never desired to go up there. My plants do a lot better when I stay low in the EC.

 

[Diatomacious]

Sounds easy enough... lime and peat reactions can be difficult to predict from what I hear though. The pH will still be changing a month after you mix it up so give it some time to "get right". Then there's the matter of nutrient concentrations and dealing with denitrification but since you're sticking with water solubles shouldn't be a thing since you can change a liquid recipe very easily.

I try to stick around the 30ppm mark on Na and Cl maybe as high as 50... just depends on your nutrient source. Organic tends to be a bit salty if you go there but for chemical blends lower is better. Those values were just what I could find on the net for desired ranges... still testing the waters there. They do claim an EC of 0.7-2.5 mmhos/cm to be in the optimal range but like you've discovered... more is not always better when it comes to fertilizer (that's my experience at least).

I've only been experimenting with GenHydro's flora series and adding to the nutrient deficiencies that arise when I mix it to hit my NPK mark. Mg and maybe K are low for sure. They have a decent enough micro blend... blending 2 t per gallon water flora micro yields

Fe 2.6ppm
Mn 1.3
Zn 0.4
Cu 0.26
B 0.26
Mo 0.02

pretty close to what I would probably mix anyway so I've just been playing with that for now.

 

[Skybound420]

Here's a few charts for comparison. FWIW, I made these before I started tracking NH4.

 

[Diatomacious]

I never know if P and K refer to actual P and K or to P2O5 and K2O. It looks like the P in your charts refers to P2O5 and K to K2O (at least for GenHydro)... not sure about the others but you should make a point to designate P or P2O5 and K or K2O as there is a large difference (Manufacturers report P2O5 and K2O I'm guessing by law). Wow some big differences in macronutes between companies.

 

[Skybound420]

I never know if P and K refer to actual P and K or to P2O5 and K2O. It looks like the P in your charts refers to P2O5 and K to K2O (at least for GenHydro)... not sure about the others but you should make a point to designate P or P2O5 and K or K2O as there is a large difference (Manufacturers report P2O5 and K2O I'm guessing by law). Wow some big differences in macronutes between companies.

All elements listed refers to the elemental ppm, not the oxides. The oxides are referred to when considering the salts used to make the nutrients, but beyond that, it is the elements. This is why there are conversions for each in the first place, because each is referenced as the oxide or the elements. FWIW, Hydro Buddy renders the the elemental ppm of each element and does the conversions from all oxides (P, K and Si) respectively and shows you what you get out the other end.

 

[Skybound420]

So for instance, when I enter a formulation from a bottle, I have to switch P to P2O5 in a drop down menu to list the oxide, as well as the same for K2O and SiO2, and Hydro Buddy reduces each value respectively in it's database so the next time that formulation is considered, the correct elemental ppm is displayed after tabulated.

 

[Skybound420]

Please read at least the first page of my tutorial, I cover all of these concerns there.

 

[Renfro]

I made this nutrient calculator spreadsheet for excel, see if you guys can point out any ratio calculations that I should add. Thanks!

 

[Skybound420]

That spread sheet is very difficult for me to comprehend, plus it would not allow me to scroll right.

 

[Renfro]

That spread sheet is very difficult for me to comprehend, plus it would not allow me to scroll right.

I don't have any idea why it wouldn't allow you to scroll right. I will look into that.

Using the sheet is pretty easy once you get familiar with it. The blue outlined section at the top is where you put in how many mL per gallon or grams that you are putting in your mix. I left open spaces to add more products.

Below there is the section that shows how many PPM you have of each nutrient like nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium....

The section at the bottom is for adding new products using the nutrient labels. Perform the calculations for each label ingredient and input those into the product PPM values.

 

[Renfro]

would not allow me to scroll right

Are you using Excel on a PC or on an android?

 

[Skybound420]

Are you using Excel on a PC or on an android?

Windows 10 PC.

 

[Diatomacious]

So for instance, when I enter a formulation from a bottle, I have to switch P to P2O5 in a drop down menu to list the oxide, as well as the same for K2O and SiO2, and Hydro Buddy reduces each value respectively in it's database so the next time that formulation is considered, the correct elemental ppm is displayed after tabulated.

Hey as long as you know which it refers too all good... just saying when you talk with others it can be confusing due to current standards. The labels on my Flora series GenHydro nutes all list phosphate (P2O5) and potash (K2O) and since all lab work I get done returns P2O5 and K2O I've just stuck with that ever since. The big difference is that elemental P at 5-40ppm is exactly the same as P2O5 at 11-100ppm so if you think it refers to elemental P and it actually refers to P2O5 you would be adding 100ppm of the element when you actually need 40.

BTW your target values are coming along pretty nicely in a peat based mix... I did have to lower phosphate to 30ppm due to nute burn (at least for veg... I'll test the waters on the flower when the time comes).

 

[Diatomacious]

I made this nutrient calculator spreadsheet for excel, see if you guys can point out any ratio calculations that I should add. Thanks!

Looks pretty decent... scrolled right on me just fine using Excel 2016 on Windows 10. If it's giving you values that seem correct then should be good to go. I made one that gives me volume of each chemical for easy measuring... well I input a volume and it calculates ppm for me.

 

[Renfro]

I input a volume and it calculates ppm for me.

Thats pretty much what this does, you plug in the amounts of what you use (ml or grams per gallon) and it gives elemental PPM and can calculate the EC PPM is you give it the raw data for the products you use. I did that for the GH Three part, Calimagic and Armorsi.

 

[Skybound420]

Hey as long as you know which it refers too all good... just saying when you talk with others it can be confusing due to current standards. The labels on my Flora series GenHydro nutes all list phosphate (P2O5) and potash (K2O) and since all lab work I get done returns P2O5 and K2O I've just stuck with that ever since. The big difference is that elemental P at 5-40ppm is exactly the same as P2O5 at 11-100ppm so if you think it refers to elemental P and it actually refers to P2O5 you would be adding 100ppm of the element when you actually need 40.

BTW your target values are coming along pretty nicely in a peat based mix... I did have to lower phosphate to 30ppm due to nute burn (at least for veg... I'll test the waters on the flower when the time comes).

You always know what you're looking at by which abbreviation is used. In my charts, everything is listed as P or K which denotes elemental ppm. On bottles or tests everything is listed as oxides which denotes that the oxide is being referenced. I'm sorry if this confuses you. It confuses me too, but this system was developed long before either of us was born and is how I learned here on RIU about a year ago on another thread from @im4satori @nxsov180db and a few other contributors that I fail to recall. In all fairness to simplicity, IMO, they should no longer refer to the oxides as all other elements are referred to in plain form, and P, K and Si should follow this model.

 

[Skybound420]

Thats pretty much what this does, you plug in the amounts of what you use (ml or grams per gallon) and it gives elemental PPM and can calculate the EC PPM is you give it the raw data for the products you use. I did that for the GH Three part, Calimagic and Armorsi.

I saw a few other spread sheets for calculating nutes but never could figure them out. I'm just not versed enough in xls. I learned to use Hydro Buddy, but it is very restrictive to the elements it will compute, and for a guy like me that mixes his own micro blend, there was no place to enter elements like nickel, alumina, cobalt etc etc etc. Maybe I'll go search out some tutorials for using XLS for that. Can you give me a lead of which terminology I should punch in to get to the tutorials to learn this part of xls? Like how to do behind the scenes math?

 

[Renfro]

I saw a few other spread sheets for calculating nutes but never could figure them out. I'm just not versed enough in xls. I learned to use Hydro Buddy, but it is very restrictive to the elements it will compute, and for a guy like me that mixes his own micro blend, there was no place to enter elements like nickel, alumina, cobalt etc etc etc. Maybe I'll go search out some tutorials for using XLS for that. Can you give me a lead of which terminology I should punch in to get to the tutorials to learn this part of xls? Like how to do behind the scenes math?

In my spreadsheet all you need to do is enter numbers in the blue boxes and the calculations will be displayed below in the PPM list.

Here is an example I made to show you how it works.

In this image I plugged in some values, in this example you will see:

ArmorSi = 2 mL/gal
Calimagic = 1.667 mL/gal
Flora Micro = 6.667
Bloom = 8.333
and 2 grams/Gal of Epsom salt.

Those numbers are entered in the blue box shown here:



As you enter those numbers the spreadsheet will calculate the additions in the section below:




So you can see the resulting PPM's on the left, 112.3 PPM for nitrogen for example. The chart to the right of that shows the totals to mix either 30 gallons or 50 gallons. The far right has a chart chowing the breakdown of the major nutrients as well as some handy ratio calculations. The little red triangles are notes, if you let your mouse hover there a pop up will tell you some handy information about that cell.

The far bottom is calculations for adding new products to the calculator using the label percentages.

So lets say the label says you have 20% Phosphorous in the form of P2O5 (thats how they list it) then you plug in 20 percent into the P2O5 calculator (see image below blue area top cell). That will give you the actual phosphorous PPM for 1 gram / gal of 23.05945 PPM. You would take that number and put it into the phosphorous cell for your new product. Most items like Magnesium for example you just use the "Anything Else by Mass" or Volume calculator to get those numbers. Most of the time it's just Phosphorous and Potassium (K2O) that need their conversions.

If you have products that you want added to the calculator I could assist you with that but if they are liquid you would have to weigh an accurately measured sample (graduated cylinder is best) so we have a specific gravity number.



When adding new products we use that big grid of numbers at the top. Each product has a row, and each element has a column. There is no need to change the numbers already there (unless they are found to be erroneous) but there are 20 rows that are for new products to be added. Some of those rows are hidden but you can unhide them by selecting the rows above and below where it says NEW PRODUCT 1 and 20, right clicking on the left of the screen and choose unhide.

 

[Renfro]

So here I un hid the other rows for new products. You could hide any of the rows that you don't use if that makes it easy, just don't delete them. So by using label values and the calculator at the very bottom of the spreadsheet you can fill out the values for your new product and then use it in the spreadsheet.