The Trade war between the US and Communist China

abandonconflict said:
There are also naturally forming cooperative behaviors such as

This myth about China is really pervasive but doesn't ring true. China is no older than any other major cradle of civilization. They may see themselves this way but even their nearest neighbors such as the descendants of the Cham in Vietnam and Cambodia have been ahead of them for most of the last couple of millennia. The Sino empires occupied and colonized them for a thousand years and nearly all of the trade secrets which the British stole were in turn stolen from the Khmer and Viet people. They have always been as they are now, copiers and usurpers of industry.

If they steal their way to the top, it will be short lived.
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Not to get into it too far, you seem to have more experience on the ground and of an interpersonal nature. The ethnic Chinese were called the "Jews of Asia" by the British all through out south east Asia, they ran a huge proportion of the business and were resourceful capitalist, I try to stay with in cultural boundaries and stay away from race, were all just the human race. Cultures like languages are passed down through the ages and confusion-ism is still strong in China, values are passed along too. When these people (culturally speaking) are unleashed by capitalism and technology look out, they have awoken from history.

China also has a history of conquest by others from ancient times Genghis Khan comes to mind and I half think part of the Fentanyl problem with them might be the opium war and we are coming up on the 200th anniversary soon, wanna bet they make a big convenient stink about it over the founding of Hong Kong.

They said the same thing about technical innovation in Japan too, they can only copy, not originate, I heartily disagree. If yer one in a million in China, there are 1300 just like ya, in terms of smarts. They've recently built 15 world class research universities on par with MIT and all those Chinese students you remember from your youth were the best and brightest, most are back home with Phds teaching there now.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
China also has a history of conquest by others from ancient times Genghis Khan comes to mind and I half think part of the Fentanyl problem with them might be the opium war and we are coming up on the 200th anniversary soon, wanna bet they make a big convenient stink about it over the founding of Hong Kong.
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I agree that they likely will. It's as disingenuous as any other morsel of propaganda that forms their national identity. They would certainly like to use it as a cause for excusing the war they are waging against the US as if we should be held accountable for the actions of the British empire two centuries ago. In the very next statement we'll be accused of inciting Hong Kong into rebellion as if there are any CIA agents or assets among the nearly two million protesters.

DIY-HP-LED said:
They said the same thing about technical innovation in Japan too, they can only copy, not originate, I heartily disagree. If yer one in a million in China, there are 1300 just like ya, in terms of smarts. They've recently built 15 world class research universities on par with MIT and all those Chinese students you remember from your youth were the best and brightest, most are back home with Phds teaching there now.
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Do you not see the contradiction here? Of course they are setting up universities now that the west has educated them. The cultural devolution has divorced their modern nation from old feats of Chinese innovation. Now, they innovate in the field of involuntary organ transplant and theft of intellectual property.

I'm not familiar with the notion that the Japanese are not innovative. I only shoot with Japanese made cameras. I have studied Japanese martial arts for more than two decades. I had the outstanding honor of looking at a sword made 900 years ago that is of higher technology than anything made in Europe until two centuries ago.
 
abandonconflict said:
I agree that they likely will. It's as disingenuous as any other morsel of propaganda that forms their national identity. They would certainly like to use it as a cause for excusing the war they are waging against the US as if we should be held accountable for the actions of the British empire two centuries ago. In the very next statement we'll be accused of inciting Hong Kong into rebellion as if there are any CIA agents or assets among the nearly two million protesters.


Do you not see the contradiction here? Of course they are setting up universities now that the west has educated them. The cultural devolution has divorced their modern nation from old feats of Chinese innovation. Now, they innovate in the field of involuntary organ transplant and theft of intellectual property.

I'm not familiar with the notion that the Japanese are not innovative. I only shoot with Japanese made cameras. I have studied Japanese martial arts for more than two decades. I had the outstanding honor of looking at a sword made 900 years ago that is of higher technology than anything made in Europe until two centuries ago.
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Western practices and systems of administration not to mention education have reinvigorated their society.

I too admire Japanese culture, zen an off shoot of Buddhism is studied widely by people like me. The trope that Asians can't innovate only copy was very popular in the USA and west in general and has been around a long time and included the Japanese too. That prejudice helped to lead to Pearl Harbor and a bitter lesson, later repaid many times over by the "sleeping giant". Like I said they can innovate just fine and don't underestimate them. I've dealt with Chinese merchants online and it's like trying to get blood out of a rock, I imagine in person it's more intense!

“In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it’s impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves. And then, in that very moment when I love them.... I destroy them.”
― Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game

A great roman general said much the same, so did a Chinese one named Sun Tzu, who I'm pretty sure you know about.
 
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We have gone from "China will innovate its way to global hegemony", to "China can innovate too." I agree with the second of these. The US can also steal and reverse engineer.
 
abandonconflict said:
We have gone from "China will innovate its way to global hegemony", to "China can innovate too." I agree with the second of these. The US can also steal and reverse engineer.
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No arguments there, years back GM built the LUV car in China, they found a duplicate factory making counterfeit copies better than the original, they made them a supplier.. China and the Chinese ain't no different than anybody else in regards to creativity and intelligence, culture and capitalism and shear fucking size have made them a contender on the world stage, they wanna own it too.
 
I hold no prejudice against any race's ability to innovate. Only that the Chinese communists have innovated anything of value aside from the coating for stealth fuselage. In fact, I would say that Philippine fishermen embody ingenuity moreso than just about any nation of people. They do more with less on a daily basis. They cross seas on little more than bamboo. As warriors they are extremely effective, see the battle of Yultong.

In any case, my criticism is confined to communist variety of Chinese people and not their entirety at that. I have many times praised the professionalism of Taiwanese merchants and the cunning of Hong Kong's pro-democracy protesters. Bruce Lee was another Hong Kong thinker I very much respect. The communist culture is the result of the "cultural revolution" of Mao Tse Tung in which that nation divorced itself from ancient and beautiful traditions.
 
abandonconflict said:
I hold no prejudice against any race's ability to innovate. Only that the Chinese communists have innovated anything of value aside from the coating for stealth fuselage. In fact, I would say that Philippine fishermen embody ingenuity moreso than just about any nation of people. They do more with less on a daily basis. They cross seas on little more than bamboo. As warriors they are extremely effective, see the battle of Yultong.

In any case, my criticism is confined to communist variety of Chinese people and not their entirety at that. I have many times praised the professionalism of Taiwanese merchants and the cunning of Hong Kong's pro-democracy protesters. Bruce Lee was another Hong Kong thinker I very much respect. The communist culture is the result of the "cultural revolution" of Mao Tse Tung in which that nation divorced itself from ancient and beautiful traditions.
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No arguments there and no accusations of bigotry either, years back GM built the LUV car in China, they found a duplicate factory making counterfeit copies better than the original, they made them a supplier.. China and the Chinese ain't no different than anybody else in regards to creativity and intelligence, culture and capitalism and shear fucking size have made them a contender on the world stage, they wanna own it too.

Let's get practical, you'll like this one.

If anybody wants free 42 watt drivers from ebay here is how to get them from a "One hung low" Chinese merchant. They knowingly sell enclosed 100 watt drivers that only put out 42 watts, they work fine and I've used em for years to under drive citizen COBs, they are common as dirt on ebay. Buy one stick a multimeter on it and you'll see what I mean, take pictures and demand a full refund, you'll work a bit, they will claim, they didn't know, they know and depend on most people not complaining, stick to yer guns and bitch to ebay. You can also do this with a ten driver order and get 420 watts worth of grow light drivers for free using the same method, beat the fuckers at their own game.
 
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DIY-HP-LED said:
No arguments there and no accusations of bigotry either, years back GM built the LUV car in China, they found a duplicate factory making counterfeit copies better than the original, they made them a supplier.. China and the Chinese ain't no different than anybody else in regards to creativity and intelligence, culture and capitalism and shear fucking size have made them a contender on the world stage, they wanna own it too.

Let's get practical, you'll like this one.

If anybody wants free 42 watt drivers from ebay here is how to get them from a "One hung low" Chinese merchant. They knowingly sell enclosed 100 watt drivers that only put out 42 watts, they work fine and I've used em for years to drive citizen COBs, they are common as dirt on ebay. Buy one stick a multimeter on it and you'll see what I mean, take pictures and demand a full refund, you'll work a bit, they will claim, they didn't know, they know and depend on most people not complaining, stick to yer guns and bitch to ebay. You can also do this with a ten driver order and get 420 watts worth of grow light drivers for free using the same method, beat the fuckers at their own game.
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I bought another xioami max 3 phone a couple of days ago. It cost me 9k Philippine pesos ($175 US) because I paid nothing in tarrifs and the Yuan devalued such that the price is just that low. It fits in my pocket, has a 5500 mah battery and quick charging, 6.9 inch 1080p lcd display with gorilla glass, snapdragon 625 processor, 4gb ram and 64gb drive and a decent Samsung camera.

It beats any deal available anywhere for pretty much any smartphone.
 
abandonconflict said:
I bought another xioami max 3 phone a couple of days ago. It cost me 9k Philippine pesos ($175 US) because I paid nothing in tarrifs and the Yuan devalued such that the price is just that low. It fits in my pocket, has a 5500 mah battery and quick charging, 6.9 inch 1080p lcd display with gorilla glass, snapdragon 625 processor, 4gb ram and 64gb drive and a decent Samsung camera.

It beats any deal available anywhere for pretty much any smartphone.
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Tell customs ya left the states with it and put some older files on it too, they might try to hit you with tariffs on the way back home. I usually advocate honesty, but make exceptions when dealing with evil and stupidity.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
Cool, how's the weather in the Philippines, warm enough for ya? Worked with lot's of Philippinos, great folks for the most part, many good old fashioned values, too bad about their president Dirt bag. Don't get caught with dope or the fucker will shoot ya, death squad style. He used drugs like Trump uses racism.
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'Do-Dirty," is the way I remember his name.
 
abandonconflict said:
I hold no prejudice against any race's ability to innovate. Only that the Chinese communists have innovated anything of value aside from the coating for stealth fuselage. In fact, I would say that Philippine fishermen embody ingenuity moreso than just about any nation of people. They do more with less on a daily basis. They cross seas on little more than bamboo. As warriors they are extremely effective, see the battle of Yultong.

In any case, my criticism is confined to communist variety of Chinese people and not their entirety at that. I have many times praised the professionalism of Taiwanese merchants and the cunning of Hong Kong's pro-democracy protesters. Bruce Lee was another Hong Kong thinker I very much respect. The communist culture is the result of the "cultural revolution" of Mao Tse Tung in which that nation divorced itself from ancient and beautiful traditions.
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I forgot to mention that while working and living in Winnipeg I had a Tibetan teacher, a victim of the Chinese invasion and part of the Tibetan Diaspora. I didn't need to climb a mountain to find a master, one was available on the Canadian prairies. I know a bit about the cruelty of that period and how stupid the Chinese were, I've heard first hand accounts, though he seemed not burdened at all by his experiences.
 
The tariff war was a bit sidelined by Sharpie vs Dorian from our Stable Genius.

Read something interesting the other day:

60% of China spend $10 USD per day or less.

Add that to the fact that there is no way Xi will let Trump win this war and lose face.
 
rkymtnman said:
The tariff war was a bit sidelined by Sharpie vs Dorian from our Stable Genius.

Read something interesting the other day:

60% of China spend $10 USD per day or less.

Add that to the fact that there is no way Xi will let Trump win this war and lose face.
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Trump lost it the moment he started it.

He hasn't hurt China in any significant way at all, and certainly not as badly as the US economy has been damaged.

The damage to America's reputation and credibility as a trading and security partner will take much longer to heal.
 
abandonconflict said:
So, anyone know if Feinstein ever explained her association with an MSS spy?
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Never heard about it, but it ain't my beat. Query: MMS spy? Ya got me curious.

Time she retired and enjoyed her remaining years, power is addictive and many go to the grave grasping for it. California ain't exactly running red these days and the Governor will appoint someone with potential and a future. Time to pass the torch an not just her either, far too may of these old farts die in harness, it's kinda cruel in a way.
 
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rkymtnman said:
The tariff war was a bit sidelined by Sharpie vs Dorian from our Stable Genius.

Read something interesting the other day:

60% of China spend $10 USD per day or less.

Add that to the fact that there is no way Xi will let Trump win this war and lose face.
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The cost of living is lower there and the Chinese save a lot, a cultural thing. Lifestyle accounts for most, the middle class is growing, but they ain't there yet and poverty is wide spread. Their leadership is un elected, but responsible enough at this point in history for capitalism to work it's magic and uplift the population rapidly. Smith said you don't need democratic government for the magic of capitalism to do it's work in a place and culture like China, just responsible government. That doesn't last long without democracy and even then corruption distorts policy and the economic landscape.

American leaders are elected and held to account for their actions, usually, there will be a more direct short term cost at the polls, ya can't fuck folks forever. The way to deal with China was TPP, band together as humans do to battle adversity, other countries have the same problems. Trump fucked that up and is most likely the worst negotiator in human history. He does not live in the moment but for it and must win in every situation and constantly paints himself into a corner while undercutting subordinates as the boss from Hell. China is a lost cause, wait for a new POTUS, one with fucking brain, join TPP and come up with a new plan. China's mercantilist economic policy will have to be addressed sooner or later.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
The cost of living is lower there and the Chinese save a lot, a cultural thing. Lifestyle accounts for most, the middle class is growing, but they ain't there yet and poverty is wide spread. Their leadership is un elected, but responsible enough at this point in history for capitalism to work it's magic and uplift the population rapidly. Smith said you don't need democratic government for the magic of capitalism to do it's work in a place and culture like China, just responsible government. That doesn't last long without democracy and even then corruption distorts policy and the economic landscape.

American leaders are elected and held to account for their actions, usually, there will be a more direct short term cost at the polls, ya can't fuck folks forever. The way to deal with China was TPP, band together as humans do to battle adversity, other countries have the same problems. Trump fucked that up and is most likely the worst negotiator in human history. He does not live in the moment but for it and must win in every situation and constantly paints himself into a corner while undercutting subordinates as the boss from Hell. China is a lost cause, wait for a new POTUS, one with fucking brain, join TPP and come up with a new plan. China's mercantilist economic policy will have to be addressed sooner or later.
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The main disagreement I have with this post is the notion that American elites or politicians are held accountable for their behavior. Other than that, it's a solid assessment of why China is rising so much faster than the United States.

China isn't the lost cause; we are. Until we get a handle on our runaway corruption we're going to fall behind, no matter how many nukes, carriers, jets or foreign bases we have.
 
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