Can you completely cut out calcium?

[Flowki]

If your nutrients cost that much switch. If you have like 30 plants growing you might almost save a dollar if you cut out Cal nitrate for a week or 2. Best thing to do is try it let us know how it goes. Best case scenario you save a dollar or 2 worst case your plants start to die and you lose out on some yield. Oh and flushing isnt really necessary

They don't cost a great deal, it's all powdered. I simply don't like needless waste. For example, only 6 month ago I was using the base at 1gp/l and all was ok. I dropped it to 0.5 gpl after reading a lot and understanding elemental ppm over tds. The plants (same strain) didn't change in end yield/quality at all and half the nutrient base is now saved. CalN was also dropped with no ill effect.

This is a help forum so it makes logical sense to ask for knowledge here so that I don't have to try it blindly. So far posters here have been against removing calcium entirely in the last few weeks, while I have some info to suggest 40ppm C as a very vague minimum. So at current, that's the conclusion. I was hoping you would chime in @Dr. Who.

 

[coreywebster]

Iv'e read of people who cut out calcium at around week 6. I'd like some valid info on this as cutting out calcium nitrate would also allow lower N levels toward the ripening stage.

My concern is that I recall reading magnesium requires the presence of calcium and a moderate level of N to work?.

I started reading a bit when you originally posted this. Got side tracked.

I read one of the major roles Ca plays is in the sending of signals from root to tip and around the plant.
Also , it was very recently discovered by John Innes centre ( I think) that Ca is also how roots know which way to grow, or more to the point the fine root hairs sense the lack of Ca in soil when they are against say a stone or plastic pot side and then change direction to where the most Ca is available.
Not really relevant to your question.

 

[Flowki]

I started reading a bit when you originally posted this. Got side tracked.

I read one of the major roles Ca plays is in the sending of signals from root to tip and around the plant.
Also , it was very recently discovered by John Innes centre ( I think) that Ca is also how roots know which way to grow, or more to the point the fine root hairs sense the lack of Ca in soil when they are against say a stone or plastic pot side and then change direction to where the most Ca is available.
Not really relevant to your question.

I've not read anything to suggest root growth takes place during the last weeks of flower so at-least it shows you don't need calcium, or high levels of, for that.

 

[Hempire828]

Don't use DOLO in cannabis much at all!

Dolo is too high in Mg.....Use dolo and you have too much Mg. Too much Mg decreases THC production...

Avoid Dolo! Powdered oyster shell and even ground egg shells. If you roast the egg shells. You bring out more good things to be available.

Now FFOF tends to run low on Ca and Mg. I used to add a good half cup per whole bag to fix those issues.

I’m throwing my dolomite away... lower thc production ...should I just add epsom salt... mag cal and sulfur...I just bought a new bag of ffof... up potted for flower... plants really don’t look so great..

 

[dubekoms]

I’m throwing my dolomite away... lower thc production ...should I just add epsom salt... mag cal and sulfur...I just bought a new bag of ffof... up potted for flower... plants really don’t look so great..

I wouldn't throw it away, just mix it with oyster shell flour at a 2-1 or 3-1 ratio (osf-dolo) to balance it out better. Epsom salts are water soluble and only contain magnesium and sulfur so I don't see the point in mixing them into a soil mix, just dissolve in water and apply when needed.

 

[Hawg Wild]

Nah... I can smoke hydro buds from just about anyone and give you a close approximation of what they used. It has nothing to do with confirmation bias. I've caught people out on their bullshit plenty of times when they say it's organic to put a premium on it and then you tell them "Really? Cause it tastes like Advanced Nutrients"... and they fess right up. Bloom boosters and sweeteners especially fuck up the terpene profile or at least the ability to taste it.

 

[Flowki]

https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2017/03/hydroponic-micro-and-macro-nutrient-sufficiency-ranges.html

This is the type of info I am able to find (scholar is often the long winded version of same vague results). Can anybody point me to this more specific ppm format of info but specific to cannabis and includes the different growth stages?. I fail to type the correct search words to track it down.

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

Link 2 is the best thing I've read cana specific (I've been following it) but it does not cover calcium and the other elemental values, it isn't really that specific on stages either.

 

[Dr. Who]

They don't cost a great deal, it's all powdered. I simply don't like needless waste. For example, only 6 month ago I was using the base at 1gp/l and all was ok. I dropped it to 0.5 gpl after reading a lot and understanding elemental ppm over tds. The plants (same strain) didn't change in end yield/quality at all and half the nutrient base is now saved. CalN was also dropped with no ill effect.

This is a help forum so it makes logical sense to ask for knowledge here so that I don't have to try it blindly. So far posters here have been against removing calcium entirely in the last few weeks, while I have some info to suggest 40ppm C as a very vague minimum. So at current, that's the conclusion. I was hoping you would chime in @Dr. Who.

Reducing Ca in the last few weeks?
For cannabis?
I really don't see why not.

I mean, your doing it to save on some nutrient cost? Right?
If your in soil....Why not? It's worth trying, and recording results right? Not like there isn't carry over from the soil anyway.

Now for hydro applications - I would be on the same thought train that your on. Keep a minimum rate up and give it a shot. Being that you can see a plant reaction in as little as 3 days. Monitor the plants well, adjust as needed.
I wonder though. How much are you really saving then? I suppose over time it would build.... As I think back to those hydro days.....Yeah, I can understand your idea and cost reduction.

Now that your running on elemental ppm. I think you will do well with this, and not just with Ca as you have already found. Ca is one of the most over prescribed/used nutrients in growing. Mg is close behind.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Aqua Man]

The plant needs a balance between the elements to get proper growth. Completely cutting anything out seems pretty counterproductive to proper growth....

As far as flushing goes, do some side by sides with some clones. Scientifically preharvest flushing does absolutely nothing for the plant, except starve it and stress it. I encourage everyone to try their own experiments.

The biggest differences in final quality will come from a healthy fully ripe plant, and a proper slow dry. No magic, secret sauce or broscience needed to grow dank buds.

This over and over and over again

 

[Dr. Who]

I’m throwing my dolomite away... lower thc production ...should I just add epsom salt... mag cal and sulfur...I just bought a new bag of ffof... up potted for flower... plants really don’t look so great..

Like the other guy said. Just cut it.

Dolo is 40% Mg. That's awful high and can be supplied by other source's
When I build soils. I get my Mg from these other source's. I add no real "extra" Mg (unless it's a soil to be used with a real Mg hog strain - like GG#4)

My calling for Dolo and FFOF is a simple, one shot, quick fix.

I prefer a mix of oyster shell and eggshell for my elemental Ca source. It's in the form of a Ca carbonate. This form does far better at pH stabilization and is still enough for the plant to use.
Ca nitrate is more plant available and less on pH control.... It also adds N. "I" don't like that and aim for pH control first. Like I said. "It's still enough for the plant as far as availability"

When you up pot for bloom. You should be giving them 8-10 days for roots to spread into the new soil. As days go by, this soil is supplementing the nutrition and reduces, slowly, as the roots really fill the new soil area's.

 

[Dr. Who]

fox farm out the bag has 2500 ppm ca
clones?
Why don't you feed all the way through on what you need and try the experiment on what you can afford to keep yourself, test both at the lab. Never know.

It tends to run short on full length runs (Mg too)......The form of Ca used is a factor.

 

[Aqua Man]

Reducing Ca in the last few weeks?
For cannabis?
I really don't see why not.

I mean, your doing it to save on some nutrient cost? Right?
If your in soil....Why not? It's worth trying, and recording results right? Not like there isn't carry over from the soil anyway.

Now for hydro applications - I would be on the same thought train that your on. Keep a minimum rate up and give it a shot. Being that you can see a plant reaction in as little as 3 days. Monitor the plants well, adjust as needed.
I wonder though. How much are you really saving then? I suppose over time it would build.... As I think back to those hydro days.....Yeah, I can understand your idea and cost reduction.

Now that your running on elemental ppm. I think you will do well with this, and not just with Ca as you have already found. Ca is one of the most over prescribed/used nutrients in growing. Mg is close behind.

Let us know how it goes!

I agree but in hydro you need to keep some which most fert lines do. I feel feeding enough but not to much is the key.

In soil you will likely have enough that there would be enough if not feeding

As @Thundercat was saying I think you want the healthiest buds possible at harvest but feed as little as possible to do so.
Just my opinion.

 

[Flowki]

Reducing Ca in the last few weeks?
For cannabis?
I really don't see why not.

I mean, your doing it to save on some nutrient cost? Right?
If your in soil....Why not? It's worth trying, and recording results right? Not like there isn't carry over from the soil anyway.

Now for hydro applications - I would be on the same thought train that your on. Keep a minimum rate up and give it a shot. Being that you can see a plant reaction in as little as 3 days. Monitor the plants well, adjust as needed.
I wonder though. How much are you really saving then? I suppose over time it would build.... As I think back to those hydro days.....Yeah, I can understand your idea and cost reduction.

Now that your running on elemental ppm. I think you will do well with this, and not just with Ca as you have already found. Ca is one of the most over prescribed/used nutrients in growing. Mg is close behind.

Let us know how it goes!

Yes it's more so about annual built up waste, but it doesn't hurt to save some coin. But I'd also like to get a sure handle on it so that I can give elemental ppm advice to others in the name of reducing waste and reducing lock out/build up issues. It was shocking how much I've been wasting (got to be around 300ppm per res) even though they were not toxic.. and still appear to be able to comfortably drop another 150ppm or so over all. Ofc that could change strain to strain.

I don't think I will cut out Ca completely since nobody seems to have evidence to say that is possible, but at the least I can try reducing it to 40ppm after week 6 and see what happens. I grow in cco so I do imagine all the Ca will take some time to leach out. Since I don't water so heavy on ppm I don't water for lots of run off, some, but not lots. It feels like it would take maybe 2 weeks to rid the coco of any left over ca, pure guess though.

Currently I use Mg at 60ppm start to finish, well, finish as in the last 2 weeks where I taper down over all ppm to 3/4 and then 1/2. Do you feel a steady 60ppm is ok until that point?.

 

[budman111]

If you're growing hydro, you NEED to flush..

That's just WRONG

 

[Aqua Man]

That's just WRONG

+1

 

[toomp]

It tends to run short on full length runs (Mg too)......The form of Ca used is a factor.

Ca no problems. Ever.
Mg in foxfarm 340 ppm. This is never enough

 

[Dr. Who]

Ca no problems. Ever.
Mg in foxfarm 340 ppm. This is never enough

How nice you don't get Ca issues.
Historically speaking. FFOF has had these issues for a long time.

 

[Dr. Who]

Yes it's more so about annual built up waste, but it doesn't hurt to save some coin. But I'd also like to get a sure handle on it so that I can give elemental ppm advice to others in the name of reducing waste and reducing lock out/build up issues. It was shocking how much I've been wasting (got to be around 300ppm per res) even though they were not toxic.. and still appear to be able to comfortably drop another 150ppm or so over all. Ofc that could change strain to strain.

I don't think I will cut out Ca completely since nobody seems to have evidence to say that is possible, but at the least I can try reducing it to 40ppm after week 6 and see what happens. I grow in cco so I do imagine all the Ca will take some time to leach out. Since I don't water so heavy on ppm I don't water for lots of run off, some, but not lots. It feels like it would take maybe 2 weeks to rid the coco of any left over ca, pure guess though.

Currently I use Mg at 60ppm start to finish, well, finish as in the last 2 weeks where I taper down over all ppm to 3/4 and then 1/2. Do you feel a steady 60ppm is ok until that point?.

2 weeks is about right, maybe a few days extra but, that is something I would try and watch for - learning!

A steady 60 ppm should be fine. Plants happy is all it needs to be. Got to be one of the easiest def's to see start. One of the harder to see tox. High Mg inhibits THC production, bet you knew that...

 

[toomp]

How nice you don't get Ca issues.
Historically speaking. FFOF has had these issues for a long time.

Historically I never saw anyone with ca. Issues here using ff I rarely see anyone having ca. Issues in general. I have to really research for people using ff to find them. Mg sure. Ca nope

 

[TintEastwood]

Some ppm (500 scale) numbers for a few common ferts. (Interesting how Jacks has jacked sulfer levels)