Republicans only care for children in the womb

[Rob Roy]

Policies, Rob. I'm talking about recessions. If you go back to 1899, it's a lot more than 9. Now I know you Republican guys like to say, the recession was caused by the previous Democratic administration. It's documented history. The pattern is clear, so stop it with the rhetorical questions.

Thanks for your clarification. In that vein, I'm not a Republican.

 

[Rob Roy]

“Taxes are theft” is a very common canard among white supremacists like you

I'm not a white supremacist and don't like them. Taxation is a form of theft.

Why have you spent years spamming us with your fail arguments about why you want racial segregation?

That’s s pretty common desire of white supremacists like yourself

When did I ever say I want racial segregation? Pretty sure I haven't. I want individual people to decide relationship issues on a consensual basis. You, on the other hand, do not. Why do you like rapist tactics so much?

 

[UncleBuck]

I'm not a white supremacist and don't like them. Taxation is a form of theft.



When did I ever say I want racial segregation? Pretty sure I haven't. I want individual people to decide relationship issues on a consensual basis. You, on the other hand, do not. Why do you like rapist tactics so much?

You are a neo nazi white supremacist

 

[Rob Roy]

You are a neo nazi white supremacist

 

[Obepawn]

I'm not a white supremacist and don't like them. Taxation is a form of theft.



When did I ever say I want racial segregation? Pretty sure I haven't. I want individual people to decide relationship issues on a consensual basis. You, on the other hand, do not. Why do you like rapist tactics so much?

Libertarian.

 

[Rob Roy]

Libertarian.

Not quite. I'm not a big L Libertarian.

A big L "Libertarian" still advocates politics as a systemic means. While big L libertarians are generally more freedom oriented than other political creatures, they still rely on force as their underlying means, albeit less so than Democrats, Republicans, etc.

Voluntaryist.

Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society.
We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. - from http://voluntaryist.com/

 

[Thundercat]

I'm not a white supremacist and don't like them. Taxation is a form of theft.
?

Taxation is not theft, it is a social contract that you agree to by living in a country that has roads and bridges, and fire departments, and every other modern social benefit. If you go live in the woods and support your self with no income or modern social benefits, then you can say taxation is theft. But if you ever drive your car or truck down a road that you personally didn't pay for then you need to stop with this silly rhetoric.

Mis-appropriation of our taxes by the government is theft. Taxation without representation is theft. Taxing the same money multiple times is theft.

However, taxation itself is not theft. There is a big difference.


I gladly pay my taxes because I like living in a "civilized" society.

 

[Rob Roy]

Taxation is not theft, it is a social contract that you agree to by living in a country that has roads and bridges, and fire departments, and every other modern social benefit. If you go live in the woods and support your self with no income or modern social benefits, then you can say taxation is theft. But if you ever drive your car or truck down a road that you personally didn't pay for then you need to stop with this silly rhetoric.

Mis-appropriation of our taxes by the government is theft. Taxation without representation is theft. Taxing the same money multiple times is theft.

However, taxation itself is not theft. There is a big difference.


I gladly pay my taxes because I like living in a "civilized" society.

There's no such thing as a "social contract" though. If there is, can you show me the one you signed?
The ones other people signed?

Taxation is theft because it involves involuntary redistribution of other peoples money under threat of force for noncompliance. Misappropriation ? That's funny. Theft doesn't become "not theft" if the thief spends the money in ways you might like anymore than if you don't like how it's spent. Don't be silly.

As far as roads, and any other services, those things could all exist and be administered without a confiscatory approach. For instance, grocery stores charge you when you purchase the groceries. If you go to another store, the first store doesn't charge you, do they? Why not?

If you don't think taking things that don't belong to you is theft, could you define what theft is ?

 

[Thundercat]

The social contract is signed by you living in a "civilized country". That simple sir.

Mis-appropriation is also simple, it's using the money for things other then what is agreed upon, like stuffing pockets instead of fixing roads.....

I'm not gonna sit here and just argue with you, you obviously have deeply seeded views on the subject....even if they are wrong. Civilization and society cost money period, taxation is the only way to practically achieve that because of people like you that don't think they should pay their fair share. The fact that so many corporations and extremely wealthy use loopholes to avoid paying their share is also a huge reason the country is where it is financially.

 

[Rob Roy]

The social contract is signed by you living in a "civilized country". That simple sir.

Mis-appropriation is also simple, it's using the money for things other then what is agreed upon, like stuffing pockets instead of fixing roads.....

I'm not gonna sit here and just argue with you, you obviously have deeply seeded views on the subject....even if they are wrong. Civilization and society cost money period, taxation is the only way to practically achieve that because of people like you that don't think they should pay their fair share. The fact that so many corporations and extremely wealthy use loopholes to avoid paying their share is also a huge reason the country is where it is financially.

So you can't show me a social contract. Got it.

I would have agreed with you, on that point, if you had said "deep seated".

My views are wrong?

Okay let's see if you hold true to YOUR views.
If I got with several of my friends and formed a government, that you didn't consent to, you would be okay with us "taxing you", at a level and frequency we decide and spending the money on things we decide too ?

Oh, could you define theft? Perhaps you didn't see that in my previous post.

 

[Thundercat]

So you can't show me a social contract. Got it.

I would have agreed with you, on that point, if you had said "deep seated".

My views are wrong?

Okay let's see if you hold true to YOUR views.
If I got with several of my friends and formed a government, that you didn't consent to, you would be okay with us "taxing you", at a level and frequency we decide and spending the money on things we decide too ?

Oh, could you define theft? Perhaps you didn't see that in my previous post.

You consent to the government and in turn the social contract by living here . I've said that a few times now. I'm sorry you struggle to comprehend this simple concept. You pay taxes to be part of society.

 

[Rob Roy]

You consent to the government and in turn the social contract by living here . I've said that a few times now. I'm sorry you struggle to comprehend this simple concept. You pay taxes to be part of society.

So other people can give your consent for you ?

I comprehend, but don't agree. You've substituted repetition of opinion for an argument.

You point to an imaginary contract and say other people can give your consent and it's somehow valid. You also are afraid to define what theft is. People don't pay taxes to be part of society, they pay them to avoid being harmed. Extortion.

So, could you define theft and while we're at it, how about defining consent too ?

 

[Thundercat]

So other people can give your consent for you ?

I comprehend, but don't agree. You've substituted repetition of opinion for an argument.

You point to an imaginary contract and say other people can give your consent and it's somehow valid. You also are afraid to define what theft is. People don't pay taxes to be part of society, they pay them to avoid being harmed. Extortion.

So, could you define theft and while we're at it, how about defining consent too ?

I never said anyone else gave your consent. I said you gave your consent by choosing to live in this country or any place that has taxes .

People that want to be part of a civilized society gladly pay taxes to keep that society running. The only people that fight paying taxes are the wealthy and bull headed that think society would some how magically exist without people paying for it.

I personally don't think there should be an income tax, and a property tax, and a school tax and sales tax. I would much rather see a flat 25% sales tax on EVERYTHING. This would help stop some of the loopholes, and hold EVERYONE living in this country accountable for paying their share to keep society progressing forward.

 

[ttystikk]

Not killing a baby is just a right to life. It doesn't cost anything, you have it too. There is a big difference between saying someone shouldn't be killed, and saying that the government needs to redistribute wealth to pay for health care/food/housing, etc...

To make a proper comparison, you would have to find politicians advocating for actually killing poor children. I don't think you are going to find anyone advocating for post-birth abortion on a poor 6 year old child.

Just wow.

That has to be the single most stupid thing I've read all day.

The notion that society shouldn't be burdened with paying to make sure future generations get as good a start as possible is exactly why this country is falling behind those that do.

 

[ttystikk]

Taxation is a form of theft.

Then stop driving, you're stealing space on the roads. Stop using technology, you're stealing innovation paid for by taxation. Give back your education, it was tax supported. Stop parasitising the peace you enjoy because of tax supported defense expenditures.

Shall I go on? That's just scratching the surface.

Your argument assumes that you don't benefit from taxation, which is FLAT FUCKING WRONG.

We've had this very same conversation before. You utterly failed to address it then and it's clear you're incapable of learning now.

Enough of your lazy, disingenuous, self centered whining about how taxes are theft until you pay every last red cent back for all the benefits you enjoy. And once you have settled up, get the fuck out.

 

[ttystikk]

I never said anyone else gave your consent. I said you gave your consent by choosing to live in this country or any place that has taxes .

People that want to be part of a civilized society gladly pay taxes to keep that society running. The only people that fight paying taxes are the wealthy and bull headed that think society would some how magically exist without people paying for it.

I personally don't think there should be an income tax, and a property tax, and a school tax and sales tax. I would much rather see a flat 25% sales tax on EVERYTHING. This would help stop some of the loopholes, and hold EVERYONE living in this country accountable for paying their share to keep society progressing forward.

Flat taxes are regressive. As far back as the Roman Empire, it was widely accepted that the wealthy pay more because they benefit more by the common security.

Progressive taxes are a big part of what made America the greatest country in history in the 1950s and 1960s- though even then it was far from perfect.

 

[UncleBuck]

So you can't show me a social contract. Got it.

it's just like that imaginary black business owner being forced to serve whites who you always talk about

 

[Thundercat]

Flat taxes are regressive. As far back as the Roman Empire, it was widely accepted that the wealthy pay more because they benefit more by the common security.

Progressive taxes are a big part of what made America the greatest country in history in the 1950s and 1960s- though even then it was far from perfect.

I get what you are saying, that's why I suggested a flat sales tax, not a flat income tax. Rich people buy more, so in turn, they will pay more in tax. They also make larger purchases which even though it is still, we will say 25%, its a huge input into the tax account.

A flat tax also makes sure EVERYONE pays. You can't work under the table or try to avoid paying.

 

[Rob Roy]

Then stop driving, you're stealing space on the roads. Stop using technology, you're stealing innovation paid for by taxation. Give back your education, it was tax supported. Stop parasitising the peace you enjoy because of tax supported defense expenditures.

Shall I go on? That's just scratching the surface.

Your argument assumes that you don't benefit from taxation, which is FLAT FUCKING WRONG.

We've had this very same conversation before. You utterly failed to address it then and it's clear you're incapable of learning now.

Enough of your lazy, disingenuous, self centered whining about how taxes are theft until you pay every last red cent back for all the benefits you enjoy. And once you have settled up, get the fuck out.

I think this is the part where I begin to address your questions, while you ignore mine.

Although some of your assertions are childlike emotional bleatings and lack any link to any consistent philosophy in your rationale.` Consider the following two paragraphs...

So you're saying that a person who uses roads should pay the owner of the road to use it? I agree. Is the only way to pay the owner of the road thru confiscatory taxation which places an automatic lien on your house ? Who owns roads ?

You correctly imply that using a road creates an obligation to pay an owner(s) , that makes sense. Then you abandon the mutual exchange aspect and bluster / cite "education" as being a valid obligation without the mutual aspect. You then neglect to discuss the confiscatory nature of government schools where people are forced to pay for them whether they use them or not. Why?
Should I go on?


Also, citing "oooh but you benefit from taxation" isn't an argument. People benefit from being able to run their own lives and make choices about how they spend their time and money. If I paint your house absent your consent and then bill you a figure we never agreed to, I could claim you benefitted from the freshly painted house...but how does my claim create an obligation on you ? It doesn't.

My argument assumes that taxation is theft, because if you or I did the exact same actions as "taxation", it would be theft. Are you man enough to admit that point?

Do similar actions by separate people cause the meaning of the action to change enough it requires a separate word to be used? No, it doesn't. If it were called theft though, rather than "taxation" , it would be harder to dupe people.

Could you define theft ? (I bet you don't)

 

[Rob Roy]

it's just like that imaginary black business owner being forced to serve whites who you always talk about

So you've never answered if you are okay with forcing a black prostitute to serve a white person even if the prostitute prefers not to.

So, are you a racist or a rapist, Poopy Pants?