Why spend $$$ on a flowering lamp if you have a $ veg lamp?

[Prawn Connery]

Try 11/1 - you can always go 24/0 later and compare the results.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I run a small perpetual. My veg space is very small and feeds a 4x4 with a 600W HPS. Uninsulated shed. Classic home grower in illegal country I spose.
I run a 130W CFL in winter for warmth and up to 100w of LED in summer. CFL is considerably warmer in a small space.
There wouldn't be much in which one works better TBH.

But yes, single tent you need a decent veg light. You have to fill the canopy as fast as possible.

 

[wietefras]

It's a given that both the veg lamp and the flowering lamp are on every day.

Ah so you're saying the example is really created/tweaked solely to somehow make sense for you alone and then "prove" your point?

You obviously did it so you see 15 euro a year as worthwhile.

No, that was not the reason why I replaced it.

You like saving money.

Sure, but I value my time higher than a few bucks per year. A few hundred a year is something that could be worth my while though.

I actually did not even replace my (flowering) HPS by COBs to save money either. At the time I switched to COBs they were so expensive that there really were no savings possible within a reasonable time frame.

The same argument can be made for flowering with a more efficient lamp in colder climates. Why not just use HPS.

No that's way too simplistic a view again. Veg happens at much lower W/m2 and lower temperatures are much more prevalent in those conditions.

Or in short, not everybody is a penny pincher.

 

[SPLFreak808]

I don't know your set-up, but I do know how most people grow, and their veg times are easily half or less than their flowering times. So speeding up vegetative growth is generally not a priority.

For example, I can't even fathom this statement:

I never have an empty flowering chamber. I often have to prune my plants in veg or reclone them to fit in with my flowering schedules.

Power savings are power savings - there's no doubt, and certainly no argument on my part.

But veg lights are usually a fraction of flowering lights - easily a ratio of 1:4 or less - so even if you are running them 24/0 compared to 12/12, and even taking into account the efficiencies of a crappy CFL vs HPS, you're almost always ahead in terms of power savings if you upgrade your flowering lights.

Plus the obvious advantage is flowering lights produce bigger buds - veg lights don't. But I'm kinda tired of repeating that! People who have been growing indoors for any length of time know exactly what I'm saying.

Just a small scale grower with a couple qb 288's running soft,nothing special.

I've never been in a situation like i posted so i dont even know the results. I was honestly under the assumption that 50% more light in veg could jump yield assuming the veg room was under-lit compared to an optimal room with adding 20% more light. I do see your point though in regarding a few post back & i agree.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Well there's obviously nothing wrong with that ^ grow - your plants look healthy and fine.

If you have the time to read through this thread, there are some interesting discussions on plant numbers vs yield vs veg time vs space vs flowering light intensity: https://www.rollitup.org/t/gpw-should-we-start-focusing-on-gsqm-instead.975506/

The bottom line is, it doesn't really matter how many plants you grow, nor how long you veg them (more plants = less veg time), nor even how much space you have - the biggest determining factor in final yields is having the optimum amount of flowering light for any given space (assuming all else is equal - that is, you know how to grow and get the best out of your particular system).

There are many misconceptions about growing and one of the main ones is that the longer you veg, the more yield you will get. This is simply not true. You only need to veg up to the point where the final canopy will make best use of the flowering light. If you do not veg long enough, you will waste flowering light. If you veg too long, you will waste veg light (as any part of the canopy that is not exposed to the flowering light will die off).

It's a balancing act.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

24/0 has the fastest veg rates IME, no question..........

Alaska grows monster specimens /holds state fair records for a reason.....all varieties don't benefit of course= High dli c3 do though

 

[churchhaze]

Because weed is actually a 2D object, a full canopy of 1ft plants will yield the same as a full canopy of 3ft tall plants... Sounds legit.

 

[Old Thcool]

I'm not being rude, but

So you want big, healthy plants but believe you can flower under "damn near any light" . . . OK. Good luck.

Guys have managed to get flowers under fluorescent lights man! Sure they wouldn’t be very good. They would be small. And not very potent or smelly. But none the less it’s a flower. My point is why don’t people just get 1 light that can take your plant from seed to weed? Today the LED is king of the all in one lamp! Why waste money on 2 lamps? Ultimately your gonna pay anyway!

 

[Old Thcool]

Because weed is actually a 2D object, a full canopy of 1ft plants will yield the same as a full canopy of 3ft tall plants... Sounds legit.

It’s not the tall that matters it’s the wide! 1 foot tall and 4 feet wide? 3 foot tall and 3 feet wide? I like em 12 feet tall and about 10 feet wide!

 

[Old Thcool]

Easy: flowering light

Replacing a 400W HPS with either a 600W HPS or 400W of LED should - all things being equal - result in about a 50% increase in yield (as long as you have the space).

So there you go - I've just paid for my new light with enough left over to buy a new veg light, too.

In almost every case, upgrading your flowering light - if it is sub-optimal to begin with - will result in an increase in yield. That buys a lot of electricity. It will also likely improve your smoking experience and save you time in trimming, by growing denser, higher quality flowers with less popcorn to trim around.

What does upgrading your veg light do? Seriously. You are going to flower at the same stage of growth. Getting a better veg light may get you to that stage quicker and save a couple of $ in power. It may reduce stretch, giving you a bit more head height. But if you run a perpetual cycle indoors, you have at least six weeks to veg in-between cycles (eight weeks flower less two weeks to clone or raise seeds), which is plenty of time to get to the required stage of growth with modest veg lighting.

A better veg light is not going to improve your flowering yields. Unless, as some here have mentioned, you plan to grow outside. Or use the same light to veg and flower.

But if you're using the sun to flower, or one light to veg and flower, then we're not even having the same conversation, are we? You only have one light, so there is no choice as to which to upgrade first. I don't even know why these questions were asked, hence why I didn't answer them above. It's obvious.

Without sounding like a broken record, I just don't follow the OP's logic. A better flowering light will always give you better yields, which is money in the bank to upgrade your veg light. You wouldn't put the cart before the horse, would you?

And again, I am not arguing there are not efficiencies to be gained in upgrading your veg light. I'm simply arguing there is a logical (fiscal) order in which to do it.

As for CFL's, they have their place. I'm using one to supplement UV and vertical light in a staggered grow. It was cheap - $28 or something - and LED doesn't have much UV to speak of. The buds in these photos were harvested this week and were so big when they finished that they broke quite a few branches:
View attachment 4256944

View attachment 4256945

This supports my theory that damn near any light can bud a plant! It’s just that some do it far better than others.

 

[Old Thcool]

No. First spend the money on a better flowering light, and with the extra yield, pay off the better flowering light and buy a new veg light.

It's really that simple.

No skip the flowering light and the veg light and get one light that can do both really well!

 

[Prawn Connery]

Because weed is actually a 2D object, a full canopy of 1ft plants will yield the same as a full canopy of 3ft tall plants... Sounds legit.

Horizontal or vertical light?


Because if light doesn't reach part of the canopy, it does not develop and eventually dies off.

Try growing some plants, and you will see what I mean. If you veg a plant too big for your flowering light, you have just wasted time and energy. There is an optimal point for any given flowering light intensity over any given footprint for any particular strain for any particular style of grow that will produce a given yield. It is up to you, as the grower, to discover what that optimal point is depending on your system.

That is if you wish to grow efficiently and are not just vegging to fill in time in-between flowering cycles.

 

[Prawn Connery]

No skip the flowering light and the veg light and get one light that can do both really well!

Why? With all due respect, you sound like you don't have a lot of experience growing indoors, or you would know that nearly all commercial and serious hobby growers have separate cloning, vegging and flowering areas with light sources to suit. Your advice is only pertinent to people who have limited space or who grow full cycle instead of perpetual cycle.

As I said, I wasn't trying to be rude, but one minute you were saying that according to churchhaze's logic you would be better off spending the money on a veg light, and the next you were telling us you were finishing your plants outdoors!

It was a non-sequitur. You don't need to spend money on a flowering light, because you don't use one.

So using his argument, I would actually benefit by buying a veg light because I plan to veg all winter and flower in a greenhouse throughout the summer.

^ This is why I had no answer to your question.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Because weed is actually a 2D object, a full canopy of 1ft plants will yield the same as a full canopy of 3ft tall plants... Sounds legit.

BTW, a 1' SOG will outyield a 3' SCROG using more plants with less veg time. You should know that, just as you should know the reasons why. They are all explained in the link to the thread I posted.

 

[Old Thcool]

Horizontal or vertical light?
View attachment 4258439

Because if light doesn't reach part of the canopy, it does not develop and eventually dies off.

Try growing some plants, and you will see what I mean. If you veg a plant too big for your flowering light, you have just wasted time and energy. There is an optimal point for any given flowering light intensity over any given footprint for any particular strain for any particular style of grow that will produce a given yield. It is up to you, as the grower, to discover what that optimal point is depending on your system.

That is if you wish to grow efficiently and are not just vegging to fill in time in-between flowering cycles.

Agree totally, for instance my wife would move out if I budded stinky weed in the house, so that actually lends itself to vegging bigger plants that can then be moved into the greenhouse when the temps come up. For me diffused light from the sun is cheaper and I can grow bigger plants. Indoors imposes limitations on plant size. I take this winter opportunity to make cuts of any good plants I happen upon and give them to local growers to backup the strain, kinda like a living seed bank! The other growers are shall we say ( outside the legal limits) of plant count and they welcome new genetic material.
I don’t agree that it doesn’t really matter how long you veg a plant. It definitely does matter. If you have the time, space and light a bigger plant makes more weed it’s that simple. I do agree that you need to use the space and light properly to max your harvest. Even outdoor growers need to space plants out.

 

[Old Thcool]

Why? With all due respect, you sound like you don't have a lot of experience growing indoors, or you would know that nearly all commercial and serious hobby growers have separate cloning, vegging and flowering areas with light sources to suit. Your advice is only pertinent to people who have limited space or who grow full cycle instead of perpetual cycle.

As I said, I wasn't trying to be rude, but one minute you were saying that according to churchhaze's logic you would be better off spending the money on a veg light, and the next you were telling us you were finishing your plants outdoors!

It was a non-sequitur. You don't need to spend money on a flowering light, because you don't use one.

^ This is why I had no answer to your question.

I said in a separate post that I would have two areas each with multi purpose lights so you could leave your plants in the room full cycle while the other room is in veg / cloning. Having a full spectrum LED in both rooms gives the ultimate in versatility. My buddies have slowly switching their street lights for full spectrum LED for just that reason, they don’t have to move plants once in the room they stay in the room. The only thing many use that isn’t LED is T5-8 lights for clones. I’m not disputing what you say, but as a business man and being old I have learned that investing in the right quality tools to do the job is money well spent. I do not believe that commercial weed growers would prefer to have to move things if they didn’t have to. Ideally a commercial set up requires a minimum of 9 rooms! A tech room for pumps, fertilizer injectors, power and HVAC, a clone/ veg room, 3 flowering rooms for perpetual cropping and a trim room with drying/ product storage safe, a bathroom and a staff room for lunch etc. Ideally an on-site office for security and needed clerical stuff. Yeah dude I know what it takes to produce weed I started smoking weed in 1976 in Cali as a kid do the math.

 

[a mongo frog]

I started smoking weed in 1976 in Cali as a kid

Which part? Also do you like the Rouge or the Escape if you were to buy.
Sorry op not trying to change subject, just thought it went into the same line of thinking.

 

[Old Thcool]

Which part? Also do you like the Rouge or the Escape if you were to buy.
Sorry op not trying to change subject, just thought it went into the same line of thinking.

Sorry can you give more information I don’t know what you are asking?

 

[Old Thcool]

Cryptic question

 

[Prawn Connery]

Agree totally, for instance my wife would move out if I budded stinky weed in the house, so that actually lends itself to vegging bigger plants that can then be moved into the greenhouse when the temps come up. For me diffused light from the sun is cheaper and I can grow bigger plants. Indoors imposes limitations on plant size. I take this winter opportunity to make cuts of any good plants I happen upon and give them to local growers to backup the strain, kinda like a living seed bank! The other growers are shall we say ( outside the legal limits) of plant count and they welcome new genetic material.
I don’t agree that it doesn’t really matter how long you veg a plant. It definitely does matter. If you have the time, space and light a bigger plant makes more weed it’s that simple. I do agree that you need to use the space and light properly to max your harvest. Even outdoor growers need to space plants out.

Again, I think we are talking at cross purposes.

If you have the luxury of the sun and as much intense light as you have access to acreage, then yes - veg as large as you like.

When you are limited by space and lighting indoors, you are also limited to optimum veg size. You cannot veg a 10' plant in a 6' room - agreed?

What do you think happens to that plant when it starts to stretch indoors under a flowering light? You need to think like an indoor grower to understand what I am saying.

I have been smoking since the early 80s. The difference, I think, is that I've also been growing since then - the past almost 20 years indoors. I'm not starting a pissing match - I simply know of what I speak from a lot of experience.