Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
Get of your high horse Quijote, your not a white knight.
Snooke just wants to make u think u are
Neoliberalism has wrecked the planet
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Snooke just wants to make u think u are
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
RAwN pAwL 2032Get of your high horse Quijote, your not a white knight.
Snooke just wants to make u think u are
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Libertarian ideology is a made up philosophy that is basically a tool of the wealthy to maintain power. It supports the status quo and therefore is a conservative one. The basis of libertarian ideology are unproven axioms and followers of this vile concept reject mathematics and science. No society in history acted according to its rules.
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
Yawn, nope dont vote for him either, I simply stated if any republican I dont dislike is them. Yes you assume im a Ron Paul cultist?
No kid I follow this guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buenaventura_Durruti
You see let me let you in a secret maybe your denying, ppl like Putin even though just another leader dont come from scumbag lawyers they come from intelligencia or in your view pedo world cause he did a play thing to a kids stomach.... Wow
Let me tell you something since I also know you think Putin would put u in jail for your "avatar"? Nope its not illegal your preference. But plz ohh plz go to saudi arabia who are great buddy with your country and show your pride to them and see how long it takes for them to kill u.....
I rest my case
"Fogdog, post: 14200366, member: 889677"]Libertarian ideology is a made up philosophy that is basically a tool of the wealthy to maintain power. It supports the status quo and therefore is a conservative one. The basis of libertarian ideology are unproven axioms and followers of this vile concept reject mathematics and science. No society in history acted according to its rules.[/QUOTE]
What makes you think im liberatian? Their flag is yellow and black, mine is red and black.... Lots of my ideological brother in Athens where nazis wont dare enter that neighboorhood...
If anyting liberatians or anarco capitalist do favor neoliberalism economic ideas.
Great they luv pot, but they want all schools to be private.....
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Impossible to follow your meanderings.
Ron Paul is the figurehead of US liberatianism. The US conservative establishment appropriated the term and twisted it from the European ideal. In the US, it's a tool used by right wingers to maintain the status quo. That you would claim to be an anarchist yet speak well of Ron Paul just indicates your naivete. Ron Paul's society would look more like feudalism than anything like an anarchist one.
Anarchism has it's attractions. Can you tell me which country, nation or people in history were able to defend itself and maintain a stable socially satisfactory society using your ideas of Anarchism. If you say Gauls or Celts, I'm going to laugh.
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
Paul may have ideals from libertarianism but hes still registered Repub
In any case yes Ill tell you a country which is not recognized such as Catalonia during that war described in my link about DUrruti. This utopian society failed due to the fact it was in the middle of a war and on one side the republican socialist gov did not want catalonian anarchist rebelling while they were at war with nationalists. You can read about how it worked in this book, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia
No money no greed, no boss, everyone equal, no cops no military. You commit a serious crime like murder or rape they shoot you on streets of barcelona with a mosin. Workers collectivised all buisness and ran it with the unions
Pretty far fetched to think of in todays age. But not too much, ever hear of Carolina Panthers football team? They are owned by the fans. Its very similar to US hubzone program of the fed gov for small non coroporate entitys not conglomerated where over 50% of buisness is OWNED by the workers not by a CEO
It worked in catalonia, and failed due to an invasive force of moors, facists and communists who were supposedly allied with the anarcos and then had their own internal battle thanks to Stalins fucking paranoia
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It didn't work because the country couldn't defend itself.
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
500 anarchists killed in 5 days by the communists fighting on streets of barcelona.....
Militias of workers with rifles fighting nationalists and legionarres....
You think they didnt put up a fight?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong about the war that they lost. I hate fascists and the soviet ideal of communism. I'm just saying that a society that can't defend itself won't be a society for long.
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
Ill agree with you to an extent. I have had my sympathies even for soviets in past, but it was no different then uncle buck here jumping on a bandwagon
In reality the problem with soviet communism is the state itself, another form of control or opression
As Kropotkin the anarchist prince from pre 1900 quoted "When the people are being beaten by a stick, they are NO HAPPIER if the stick being used is the "peoples stick"
As far as society defending themselves, what is your definition of that? Shooting say someone that cut you off on road? Shooting someone over a TV in your house? No I wouldt justify a weapon for that. I think we both know the original intentions of Sam Adams and company when it came to any bearing of arms....
Back to original subjecct, anarco sindicalism I see it just a form of evolved socialism that never took off or was allowed to flourish. I think it was even Marx himself who in manifesto stated the final solution and outcome of real socialism is the dissolution of the state, no need for it. Which is basically anarchism, socialism without central power or state
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Societies compete just like people do. Societies based upon anarchist ideology don't survive in this era. I'm not making a value statement here. Just that you mentioned Don Quixote. Anarchists are not different from him. Admirable but also a joke.
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
I would say your comparing apples to melons
Quixote had delusions of grandeur
Anarchists simply fought for what they beleived in, did not claim any grandeness....
Yes I understand you may see it as a joke and just a childish ideology of a bunch of kids or manchilds like me but hey I know Im a dreamer but Im not the only one
Would be much better world without whats going on now
Ill leave u with a quote:
"It is we [the workers] who built these palaces and cities, here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers. We can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth. There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts. [...] That world is growing in this minute."
The fact it didnt work was due to the war. Not that it self collapsed. If anything capitalism is meant to fall, and it survives thanks to guns and bombs and killing and lying
Am I saying your wrong? No, but you need to see why it doesnt work, not cause its not self suffieceint, is cause too many bank accounts and wealth holders see it as a problem....
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
God how boring.I would say your comparing apples to melons
Quixote had delusions of grandeur
Anarchists simply fought for what they beleived in, did not claim any grandeness....
Yes I understand you may see it as a joke and just a childish ideology of a bunch of kids or manchilds like me but hey I know Im a dreamer but Im not the only one
Would be much better world without whats going on now
Ill leave u with a quote:
"It is we [the workers] who built these palaces and cities, here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers. We can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth. There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts. [...] That world is growing in this minute."
The fact it didnt work was due to the war. Not that it self collapsed. If anything capitalism is meant to fall, and it survives thanks to guns and bombs and killing and lying
Am I saying your wrong? No, but you need to see why it doesnt work, not cause its not self suffieceint, is cause too many bank accounts and wealth holders see it as a problem....
Do you think that people know what's best in terms of how to form a society? I don't think we do. We've conducted many social experiments in the past 100 years and the more idealistic, the larger the disaster.
The US isn't anywhere close to an ideal society. Not defending it, but I'll hold it up as one that is able to change and adapt with changes in the larger scheme.
As far as Anarchy goes, I simply don't see how it can work in a world of several billions of people.
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
No money equal exchanges of good and no greed cant work? Like I stated, how big is your wallet? lol
And who is WE? Disaster? Read Orwells book I linked too, tell me if it was a disaster, the only disaster was an invasion which you first said they needed to defend against, now your saying it just doesnt work? Which is it?
Look ppl like to accomodate to the system and I dont blame them, or if you want to call it conforming. Perosnally Im getting to the existential age we all dread and tbh, Im not gonna be the next revolution spark nor will most modern anarcos. Im too old for this shit. But I still have my ideals but your simply regurgitating the same crap I hear from middle aged people and not only in america. "Ohh it work on paper its nice but it uhh doesnt work"
So what works? Capitalism? Ok turn on the TV and tell me if thats so great, ever week a new big story of mayham and chaos
Its like everyone wasnts change but when your presented with an alternative you just brush it off....
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You suffer from tunnel vision brought on by too much television.
All that politics shit? Doesn't affect the daily lives of people. All that violence. Sure, where it is it's bad not saying it's not. Still, the world is more peaceful, fewer wars, more opportunity than a hundred years ago.
Totally recognize the trend toward more concentration in wealth is reaching an unstable and unhealthy point, in the US maybe elsewhere. There is a correction coming. Not right away, maybe in 10 years. We have some histrionic personalities who claim the world has already gone to hell. Maybe it has in terms of climate change, I'll grant that, but not in terms of failure of our democracy.
Have you traveled? Been to Japan? It's an example of how people learned to live together in high densities. Quite the opposite of anarchy, Japan is a very cooperative society with many social rules that enable people to get along when they live cheek by jowl.
I'm saying because it was unable to defend itself, no anarchist society has lasted long if at all. Probably also because it is founded on poor understanding of the diversity and nature of humans.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
are you still crying goodbye?
Z3r0Z3r0
Well-Known Member
R u fucking kidding me?
TV? I dont even watch TV anymore lol come on get real
100 years ago you didnt have nuts shooting up schools where they teach children how to live, but no in modern day capitalism its not about ethics or education its about preparing them to be slaves to the system and accept this "matrix" give me a break man
100 years ago can not be compared, your talking WW1 when the world changed but it didnt get better. How the fuck are you saying more peacefull? What cause they traded sowrds and muskets for drones are you fucking kidding me? Japan? You really dont know do you? Japan probably is the only capitalist system that semi works with laboral influences from the left by general Macarthur... The japanese companys beleive if the worker is happy and productive it means more profit for them. Do you see american corporate slaves happy? I dont think so.
But if you want to talk about anarchism as if it didnt exist there Ill let you know Osaka is the bastion of Japanese anarchism which corrlates directly with Zen buddism and also de home of 2nd style of Karate Do known as Shito Ryu so dont question me on this, I studied it for years....
Anarchism (real one may I add) only existed there (in catalonia) and maybe in Christiania Denmark and it still semi works, But you miss my point, it has nothing to do with understanding nature of humans, its about getting humans to realzie full potential and what life is really about, and if it failed it was cause they couldnt defend themselves from the ones that knew this utopia was a threat to them.
You need to look into the history more, that war was lost to the nationalist due to flaws in armaments, Winston Churchill the drunk fuck placed an arms embargo to prevent the war from escalating to rest of world. Stalin had to do a loophole and send the republic soldiers and militas broken weapons, which they would fire and half of them richocheted or backfired in your face. Not very easy to defend youself with that and the enemy has German made weapons and Hitler tests his fucking luftwassen on your people
I rest my case
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Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
If anybody is waiting for Tty's nightly shit-show, the meth guy called and is running a little late.
Be patient.
Be patient.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It won't take that long if we keep on with business as usual. Shit is going to be getting ugly well before 2050 at this rate.