Canada Grows to the 4 Plant Limit

[DIY-HP-LED]

Right, but unlike tobacco and alcohol, scientists do not know yet how marijuana affects childrens brains in the long term. Which is exactly why there are people saying that home growing will not end up being allowed or it will be delayed for who knows how many years.
To me it's somewhat irrelevant for Canadians. People grow it anyway and any new law restricting or allowing us to grow marijuana is not going to impact our way of life much in either direction. The same people will still keep growing. More people will go through the process of getting a medical license if they don't allow 4 plants. Either way, it won't change our landscape much.

From the available data and my own life experience, I don't think it does too much harm to younger people. People would have noticed by now and seen it in their own lives, too many success stories of younger smokers and good turn outs later in life. Alcohol affects more than brains, it can kill and like tobacco is physically addictive. Also, they don't demonstrate benefits like cannabis or have any medical use. Did you know that nicotine is the most addictive substance known, it's the gold standard by which all other drugs are measured, 100 on the addictivity scale, caffeine is in the 60's I believe and pot comes in at around 45, alcohol in the 80s and opioids are in the high 90's. So, scientifically speaking, Tim's is more addictive than pot and anybody with a daily Tim's habit kinda knows this. They don't call it being a,"slave to the bean" for nothing.

We are dealing with kids though so it's best to err on the side of caution. Though everybody's rights have to be balanced, adults as well as kids. A locked grow room would be reasonable, if kids were present. Older folks wouldn't have many restrictions though, or they'd just go medical. There's a reason people in their thirties quit smoking pot (according to statistics), they have young children around and don't want to negatively impact them, I wish it were the same with alcohol. It might also be the reason they start again, when the kids are past their formative years and health issues kick in as they wind down the clock. Nobody gets outta this life alive and they don't put luggage racks on hearses.

 

[OldMedUser]

As far as I'm concerned it's the gov'ts attempt to change cartels from the BM to a new income source. The new laws they propose are further eroding our personal freedoms and the majority of the sheeple who voted Trudeau in will placidly go along with it like they do with everything else like Google, FuckBook and all the other crap.

My old man told me about the hue and cry that went out when the CPP first came in and everyone had to have a SIN. Like tattooing the Jews for the gas chambers he said. It's only getting worse and each generation complies without question to giving up personal info to whoever asks.

Not me! I'm on TOR and already have it running on my new and first dumb phone so I can use it to keep in touch on the sly.

The whole "protect the children and eliminate the BM" is just hype to pacify the sheeple that the gov't is in control and making it better for everyone.

Like gov't control is better for anyone!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

As far as I'm concerned it's the gov'ts attempt to change cartels from the BM to a new income source. The new laws they propose are further eroding our personal freedoms and the majority of the sheeple who voted Trudeau in will placidly go along with it like they do with everything else like Google, FuckBook and all the other crap.

My old man told me about the hue and cry that went out when the CPP first came in and everyone had to have a SIN. Like tattooing the Jews for the gas chambers he said. It's only getting worse and each generation complies without question to giving up personal info to whoever asks.

Not me! I'm on TOR and already have it running on my new and first dumb phone so I can use it to keep in touch on the sly.

The whole "protect the children and eliminate the BM" is just hype to pacify the sheeple that the gov't is in control and making it better for everyone.

Like gov't control is better for anyone! View attachment 4009910

I don't figure CPP and old age are bad ideas and the gov has to know who gets what. As for privacy (a recent concept), how much do you figure folks had a couple of hundred years ago, when everybody in the village knew yer business, it's still that way in some small communities!

The real tragedy about technology is that it isolates people, breaks up communities and fosters loneliness, Every minute we spend with endless entertainment options is a minute we don't spend with others. That's why many folks use social media and are into the cult of celebrity, it's a substitute for personal social interaction and a community of a few hundred other people what we instinctively seek. We used to have many more family, friends acquaintances and close knit communities, celebrities and social media are a substitute for many.

As for technology, we're along for the ride and don't have much choice. The world is becoming more global and interconnected, it's estimated in 30 years 80% of the population will be unemployable because of technology. That's ok, most folks would rather be golfing or fishing or making the world a better more compassionate place. It will be like this or we won't be democratic and free, but something else and people will be seen as useless mouths and not valued human beings. One thing about technology, it makes us richer, you live better than the King of Britain (father of the current Queen) did in 1938, you have a better diet and more food options, better medical care and improved access to information that can improve your life, and you drive a better car! All this with the 1% screwing the living daylights outta ya since the 80s and all the gains going to them, that's why the world looks screwy, cause it is. Life ain't so bad and sometimes ya gotta just count yer blessings old feller.

 

[OldMedUser]

Life ain't so bad and sometimes ya gotta just count yer blessings old feller.

I do. Every day. Some days it's damn hard to do when the dark cloud is all I can see but I try.

 

[Photon Flinger]

At least you aren't in the US.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

At least you aren't in the US.

I been watching the doings of the Donald for a bit, soon it will become the doing of the Donald. Talk about Game of Thrones! It's like watching the crazy neighbors across the street through the picture window, wrestle on the front lawn.

Character is destiny, and ole Donald's destination is becoming quite clear, it involves a jail cell. He's the only one he cares about and he's the only one he can't pardon.

 

[Photon Flinger]

Trump is actually the good part of the US. He is the only chance of bringing some form of civility to the current chaos. You are 7 times more likely to be shot down there and good luck on getting any help if a crime is committed against you.

 

[QuarksRSmall]

Trump is actually the good part of the US. He is the only chance of bringing some form of civility to the current chaos. You are 7 times more likely to be shot down there and good luck on getting any help if a crime is committed against you.

Trump is the good part of the US? He most certainly is not. He is a racist, narcissistic, pathological liar. Most of the US would certainly not agree with your opinion.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Trump is actually the good part of the US. He is the only chance of bringing some form of civility to the current chaos. You are 7 times more likely to be shot down there and good luck on getting any help if a crime is committed against you.

The current American political system is broken, Trump is just a symptom. Folks are frustrated down there because big money owns the place and everybody is getting screwed by the 1%. Unless the bad taste he leaves in their mouths teachs em something, I'm not optimistic. Con men take advantage of the not so smart and the ones who make themselves that way by being controlled by fear, anger, hatred and greed. Scared stupid is a truism and everybody has seen angry people do stupid things. Canadians are no exception, there are many tories in the country. Remember Rob Ford!

 

[Photon Flinger]

Trump is the good part of the US? He most certainly is not. He is a racist, narcissistic, pathological liar. Most of the US would certainly not agree with your opinion.

You just defined politician and at least 75% of the population.

When one is right it is irrelevant whether others agree or not. Like an opinion, everyone has the right to be wrong.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

You just defined politician and at least 75% of the population.

When one is right it is irrelevant whether others agree or not. Like an opinion, everyone has the right to be wrong.

More like 30-40% of the population, though that can be whipped up in the right circumstances. If yer a racist, yer a sucker and someone will soon serve your malice. For most it means they're afraid of competing with the "brown" folk, cause deep down inside they know they can't cut it. They don't need no government help cause the "brown" folks might git some! Ever hear the saying, "Cut your nose off to spite your face", that's a big part of the reason why the poor bastards don't have health care! They are by a good measure the richest country in the world and if ya wanna know why they're fucking themselves, this should give a few clues.

As for being shot and law enforcement being overwhelmed and sticking guns in folks faces during routine traffic stops. Perhaps the misinterpretation of the second amendment and the NRA might have something to do with it. America is a much more fear riddled society than Canada and when people are fearful they tend to go tribal. We are no different and that's why you'll see grower's associations spring up to fund legal challenges and protect grower and users rights.

 

[nc208]

From the available data and my own life experience, I don't think it does too much harm to younger people. People would have noticed by now and seen it in their own lives, too many success stories of younger smokers and good turn outs later in life. Alcohol affects more than brains, it can kill and like tobacco is physically addictive. Also, they don't demonstrate benefits like cannabis or have any medical use. Did you know that nicotine is the most addictive substance known, it's the gold standard by which all other drugs are measured, 100 on the addictivity scale, caffeine is in the 60's I believe and pot comes in at around 45, alcohol in the 80s and opioids are in the high 90's. So, scientifically speaking, Tim's is more addictive than pot and anybody with a daily Tim's habit kinda knows this. They don't call it being a,"slave to the bean" for nothing.

We are dealing with kids though so it's best to err on the side of caution. Though everybody's rights have to be balanced, adults as well as kids. A locked grow room would be reasonable, if kids were present. Older folks wouldn't have many restrictions though, or they'd just go medical. There's a reason people in their thirties quit smoking pot (according to statistics), they have young children around and don't want to negatively impact them, I wish it were the same with alcohol. It might also be the reason they start again, when the kids are past their formative years and health issues kick in as they wind down the clock. Nobody gets outta this life alive and they don't put luggage racks on hearses.

My opinion is yes it does affect developing minds so I agree on the age restriction. But saying because it's legalized and grow at home kids will have more access?
Imo this is absurd. I started smoking pot when I was 12. Today I'm 31 kids have full access to it currently right now while it is Illegal.

Try being underage and buying liqour. It isn't easy trust me. But a kid can go get pot anywhere because currently no one enforces ID. Allowing Govt to control distribution will hopefully crush street level dealers and cut off access. But in reality we know it wont. Legalizing will change nothing about how a kid can obtain pot. Hopefully teaching kids respinsible ways to consume will be where it comes into the real difference. Educating someone about it will do more good then restricting it. It's human nature to want what we are told not to.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

My opinion is yes it does affect developing minds so I agree on the age restriction. But saying because it's legalized and grow at home kids will have more access?
Imo this is absurd. I started smoking pot when I was 12. Today I'm 31 kids have full access to it currently right now while it is Illegal.

Try being underage and buying liqour. It isn't easy trust me. But a kid can go get pot anywhere because currently no one enforces ID. Allowing Govt to control distribution will hopefully crush street level dealers and cut off access. But in reality we know it wont. Legalizing will change nothing about how a kid can obtain pot. Hopefully teaching kids respinsible ways to consume will be where it comes into the real difference. Educating someone about it will do more good then restricting it. It's human nature to want what we are told not to.

Honest education based on facts has worked for smoking and drinking and driving, I can't see pot being any different. If it becomes associated with old farts and medical use, that might take the shine off it for many kids. It's probably bad for developing minds for the same reason it appears to help deteriorating minds and brain injuries. Most people don't take chances when it comes to their kids, so erring on the side of caution, would be wise. If the research pans out (and it looks like it will) when it hits the media, all Hell will break lose. Some folks in their 60's with a family history of alzheimer's or who are having trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time ( but there are people in their 30's who do that ), will take a keen interest.

Maybe there'll be education ads of a stoned old fart teasing a group of glum youngins, " I can smoke dope, but you can't na na na"!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

A Note to Canadian LED Light Vendors
If you come on this thread selling your wares, you might as well be honest and tell folks, where your lights were made and if you can stand behind them. Be sure to state the actual draw from the plug in watts and keep the bullshit to a minimum. You will be the topic of discussion and if folks ain't happy, or you're bullshitting or ripping people off, grief will come your way, trust me, the laws of karma will get you, what goes around comes around.

Take the cover off one of your lights and show people the guts, if you got the guts. I look forward to the photos.

There are many honest vendors out there and great lights and it mostly depends on your needs, a cheap unit might be just fine for some with limited needs. Just be sure of what you're getting, many vendors sell 600 watt units that only draw 200 watts from the plug. Heatsinks are expensive to ship, even from China and many lights are under driven for longevity, thermal management, cost and for shipping issues. They really do have 600 watts in LEDs, but lack the heat sinking and drivers to run anywhere close to the advertized power. This is not as bad as it might seem at first blush, DIY lights are often under driven too, to increase efficacy and for thermal management issues, but generally not as much as store bought ones. Always ask what it draws from the plug and look online for honest, independent, reviews of the grow light your thinking about.

With a DIY light the stated power is usually the draw at the plug, the power of the economical DIY quality 10 COB light described earlier, depends on how the COBs are driven, at 35 watts each or 50 watts each and the total power of the lamp could be 350 watts (most efficient) or 500 watts, (more light and heat) and of course more bud. There's over 810 watts worth of COBs on the light though, and many vendors would advertize it as 800 watts, if it were store bought. DIY lights cost a fraction of the price of most equivalent store boughts and it's one of the few things that's really worth the effort to DIY these days. If anything goes wrong with your light, you can fix it, cause ya built it and took the time to learn, have a bit of fun and save money. In most cases it's hard for most store bought lights to give enough coverage, but DIY lights usually have better light distribution.

White 3500K quality COBs are the trend and monochrome (red/blue) or burple lights appear to be going out of fashion. Better lights use powerful LEDs, 3 watt units and such appear to be moving to the low end of the market. The options are constantly increasing, the costs dropping and the industry is constantly growing and changing, ain't technology great.

If you're a good gardener and take care of your plants properly and have all the bases covered, you'll generally get around a gram of bud a watt (from the plug) from most LED lights, maybe a bit more. How you do depends on you and the genetics you're using and there ain't much of an excuse to grow crap these days.

 

[Photon Flinger]

Actually, all those details don't matter one bit. All that matters is the end results. If I was a vendor and was asked all that info I would tell you to go pound sand, your business isn't worthwhile. Especially when you see sk flying off the shelves at $2300 each.

For example, those lights marketed at 1000+ watts or whatever are referring to the usage at nominal (recommended) drive current. The lower quality the light, the closer that the usage will be to the marketed number. You can apply this logic to any led driven light source including QB, cobs, discrete diodes including generic chinese epi whatevers.

If you want DiY results then you have to do your research and build your own stuff. Same as with cooking, you don't suddenly become a master chef because you bought a gin-su knife.

To make things simple for everyone when it comes to lights there is only one rule to rule them all. You want to produce light not heat so the best light produces the least amount of heat. With leds that means under driving them to the point where they don't produce any appreciable heat.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Actually, all those details don't matter one bit. All that matters is the end results. If I was a vendor and was asked all that info I would tell you to go pound sand, your business isn't worthwhile. Especially when you see sk flying off the shelves at $2300 each.

For example, those lights marketed at 1000+ watts or whatever are referring to the usage at nominal (recommended) drive current. The lower quality the light, the closer that the usage will be to the marketed number. You can apply this logic to any led driven light source including QB, cobs, discrete diodes including generic chinese epi whatevers.

If you want DiY results then you have to do your research and build your own stuff. Same as with cooking, you don't suddenly become a master chef because you bought a gin-su knife.

To make things simple for everyone when it comes to lights there is only one rule to rule them all. You want to produce light not heat so the best light produces the least amount of heat. With leds that means under driving them to the point where they don't produce any appreciable heat.

Everything has to be balanced, need, quality, price and practicality. If you're an honest vendor (and a decent human being) you'll address your customers concerns and be as helpful as possible. I'm a reasonable person and get along quite well with others, I don't anticipate too many problems walking into most grow stores and asking questions. The more folks know the better choices they make, not much point in getting too technical with novices.

That's where guys like you come in, helping the nubes and especially the DIY ones, if you're into it.

 

[Photon Flinger]

Well then here is one for you. In my opinion, any led that requires a heat sink is a scam. It is money that should be spent on more light sources.

Simple rules to live by.

If Cobkits had the same arrangement with Bridgelux as he does with Citizen we would probably see more of the SE builds out there using many cobs and little heat sinking. Some people think running a 120w rated device at 10w is a waste but the real waste is the chunk of metal people stick it to.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Well then here is one for you. In my opinion, any led that requires a heat sink is a scam. It is money that should be spent on more light sources.

Simple rules to live by.

If Cobkits had the same arrangement with Bridgelux as he does with Citizen we would probably see more of the SE builds out there using many cobs and little heat sinking. Some people think running a 120w rated device at 10w is a waste but the real waste is the chunk of metal people stick it to.

Your ahead of the times, when COB cost drop, so will their average driven current, efficacy will go up as will efficiency and heat will go down, physics/electronics 101

I'm thinking of posting an AC COB build from my thread for poor folks, you'll have fun with that one! I expect a harsh critique of this kinda thing and it probably deserves it, but for some it's cheaper than buying pot, hopefully they will use the savings for something better. All I gotta do is keep them from killing themselves trying, they will anyway, so they might as well know how to do it safe. Hopefully some will live and if they don't ground the heat sink and I'm close by, I'll hav'em by the nuts in a heartbeat and go up one side of em and down the other.

 

[Photon Flinger]

Costs have dropped and the capex versus opex trade-off has always been there with leds.

What you are seeing is more appropriately a lemming effect or follow the leader where someone started using heat sinks and everyone else did as well. No one questioned whether you needed a heat sink or not, it was just incorrectly assumed to be the case. Vendors kept working with the same parameters and any innovation has been stagnant. Things are moving forward with qb but the discrete diode is nothing new either.

If you are just in it for personal, 6 vero 29s run at 20w each should produce a fine amount of good quality stuff. That's around 200 bucks. Find an old fixture with drivers or get a fancy meanwell for under 100 bucks. Total of 300 bucks for a light that will outlive you.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Costs have dropped and the capex versus opex trade-off has always been there with leds.

What you are seeing is more appropriately a lemming effect or follow the leader where someone started using heat sinks and everyone else did as well. No one questioned whether you needed a heat sink or not, it was just incorrectly assumed to be the case. Vendors kept working with the same parameters and any innovation has been stagnant. Things are moving forward with qb but the discrete diode is nothing new either.

If you are just in it for personal, 6 vero 29s run at 20w each should produce a fine amount of good quality stuff. That's around 200 bucks. Find an old fixture with drivers or get a fancy meanwell for under 100 bucks. Total of 300 bucks for a light that will outlive you.

If you'd like to cover a QB build, folks would be interested, the vero build is what some would like as well and converting some store boughts is a good thing to cover too, we're gonna see a lot of variety around here. I'll include your input on the Canada grows how to thread, the more options people have the better, or you can. We benefit from this too, the more the merrier.