Donald Trump threatens 'fury' against N Korea ..(again)

dagwood45431

dagwood45431

Well-Known Member
zeddd said:
No more wars, only arm wrestling contests from now on, trump vs Kim loser gets castrated
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I'd say just compare dicks but they'd have to create tiny instruments to measure both of them. Goofy hair, tiny dicks and nukes. What could go wrong there?
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Uhhh no

South Korea is important to the United States, both politically and economically. It would be a historic disaster if what you suggest happened to S. Korea. And I'm sure the US would take action to prevent the occupation of the entire peninsula by North Korea. Much as China would take action to prevent North Korea from being occupied by South Korea and the US.

But this is all just armchair generalship. North Korea wants nuclear weapons because that's the only way to absolutely end the threat of invasion from the South or the US. The problem is the US threatens North Korea. The Hermit Kingdom isn't a threat to the United States.
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I respectfully disagree.
SK was once a significant source of cheap labour and a sales market for the US. That is no longer true. Trade with China has replaced that.

But the relationship remains and maybe there is a sense of loyalty to honour. But only to a point. If weapons start to fly it becomes a risk reward equation... the risk outweighs reward now. It always comes down to money....

And i believe the only benefit of nukes to NK is prestige and the chnce that such brings legitimacy to the regime.

It
 
dagwood45431

dagwood45431

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
I respectfully disagree.
SK was once a significant source of cheap labour and a sales market for the US. That is no longer true. Trade with China has replaced that.

But the relationship remains and maybe there is a sense of loyalty to honour. But only to a point. If weapons start to fly it becomes a risk reward equation... the risk outweighs reward now. It always comes down to money....

And i believe the only benefit of nukes to NK is prestige and the chnce that such brings legitimacy to the regime.

It
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The US will protect its "brand". Losing SK would be unacceptable. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but there's no way the US will simply let SK fall to the north. It won't happen.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
The US will protect its "brand". Losing SK would be unacceptable. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but there's no way the US will simply let SK fall to the north. It won't happen.
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It wont fall to the north. Both NK and SK will likely be absorbed by China. Much like Canada is to the US.

Sad but probably true.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
The US will not allow that. We'll start talking about dominoes and shit again.
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"Allow that."

Yanks havent noticed, but.... ever since the dumb Bush took office and invaded Iraq on pretenses that the rest of the world knew was absolute bullshit the US has been losing credibility and influence.

Since then the Russia /China alliance has reduced that further.

China has been collecting gold for a couple of decades to harden their currency and when Russia, a couple years ago, stopped accepting US dollars for their oil and started demanding Yen or roubles the US dollar has been completely undermined as tbe defacto world currency. With political influence lost and financial influence lost all the US has left is military influence, whichbisnt enough.

And now comes Trump. Who has given away the last bit of US political influence to idiocy. (When Merkel declared the US unrelaible and nobody contradicted her...that was the nail in the coffin).

The US no longer allows or disallows anything, unless they are willing to use their arsenal. And i suspect that if they try another action like Iraq they will find the entire world against them.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
It wont fall to the north. Both NK and SK will likely be absorbed by China. Much like Canada is to the US.

Sad but probably true.
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Is there any reputable media source that you can cite to back this claim? China is on the rise but they have plenty of domestic problems of their own to deal with. Especially maintaining economic growth. 75% of their people are still living at poverty level and economic growth is slowing. I fail to see an interest in a forced take-over with an important trading partner such as South Korea. North Korea is in such a mess that China couldn't benefit economically from such a drastic measure.

South Korea's economy ranks 12th in the world. It's about the same size as Canada's and Russia's. It would be a disaster to the economic health of the world if South Korea were to go under. As you say, US interests are driven by it's own economic interests. To say the US has no interests in South Korea would be the same as saying it has no interests in Canada, also a huge trading partner with the US. Also both are military allies.

So, point to some links that I can read that provides background to what you claim.

Here is an article that says it's time to revisit the relationship with South Korea but nothing like what you say.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/south-korea-alliance-north-korea-kim-moon-trump/532113/

A break in the US alliance with South Korea would not only destabilize the economy of an important trading partner but would bolster China's position in the area. Also relationships with other countries such as Japan and India would be weakened. A nuclear North Korea changes the game but not the relationships.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Is there any reputable media source that you can cite to back this claim? China is on the rise but they have plenty of domestic problems of their own to deal with. Especially maintaining economic growth. 75% of their people are still living at poverty level and economic growth is slowing. I fail to see an interest in a forced take-over with an important trading partner such as South Korea. North Korea is in such a mess that China couldn't benefit economically from such a drastic measure.

South Korea's economy ranks 12th in the world. It's about the same size as Canada's and Russia's. It would be a disaster to the economic health of the world if South Korea were to go under. As you say, US interests are driven by it's own economic interests. To say the US has no interests in South Korea would be the same as saying it has no interests in Canada, also a huge trading partner with the US. Also both are military allies.

So, point to some links that I can read that provides background to what you claim.

Here is an article that says it's time to revisit the relationship with South Korea but nothing like what you say.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/south-korea-alliance-north-korea-kim-moon-trump/532113/

A break in the US alliance with South Korea would not only destabilize the economy of an important trading partner but would bolster China's position in the area. Also relationships with other countries such as Japan and India would be weakened. A nuclear North Korea changes the game but not the relationships.
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No. It is personal opinion.
 
dagwood45431

dagwood45431

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
"Allow that."
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Yeah, you seem fixated on that. Free clue. I believe the US is largely a paper tiger (outside of the realm of a global thermonuclear war, of course). I believe we've acted foolishly in the past and will continue to do so with regards to "nation building" and such.

You seem to believe I am a chicken hawk or a neocon. I can assure you I am not. I agree with much of what you say, as much as that now pains me to say, because you won't get off my dick. Okay. Take it from there.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Is there any reputable media source that you can cite to back this claim? China is on the rise but they have plenty of domestic problems of their own to deal with. Especially maintaining economic growth. 75% of their people are still living at poverty level and economic growth is slowing. I fail to see an interest in a forced take-over with an important trading partner such as South Korea. North Korea is in such a mess that China couldn't benefit economically from such a drastic measure.

South Korea's economy ranks 12th in the world. It's about the same size as Canada's and Russia's. It would be a disaster to the economic health of the world if South Korea were to go under. As you say, US interests are driven by it's own economic interests. To say the US has no interests in South Korea would be the same as saying it has no interests in Canada, also a huge trading partner with the US. Also both are military allies.

So, point to some links that I can read that provides background to what you claim.

Here is an article that says it's time to revisit the relationship with South Korea but nothing like what you say.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/south-korea-alliance-north-korea-kim-moon-trump/532113/

A break in the US alliance with South Korea would not only destabilize the economy of an important trading partner but would bolster China's position in the area. Also relationships with other countries such as Japan and India would be weakened. A nuclear North Korea changes the game but not the relationships.
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Last i hear china was still growing at an unbelievable pace of 6 to 8% per year. (15% was unsustainable). They are on the rise? That was the news 20 years ago, according to Time magazine. China has risen. Only the US doesnt know it yet. Or rather yanks are in denial about it.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/kor/

Total value of trade between the US and South Korea is about $115 billion, counting both directions.

That's very significant.

We also have strong and long standing treaty obligations.

We are not going to let South Korea twist in the wind.
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Fair enough. But if that disappears suddenly it will certainly be made up by China.

I suspect 115 bil is raw material going to SK and consumer product going to US?

China can easily fulfill that.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
Yeah, you seem fixated on that. Free clue. I believe the US is largely a paper tiger (outside of the realm of a global thermonuclear war, of course). I believe we've acted foolishly in the past and will continue to do so with regards to "nation building" and such.

You seem to believe I am a chicken hawk or a neocon. I can assure you I am not. I agree with much of what you say, as much as that now pains me to say, because you won't get off my dick. Okay. Take it from there.
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Apologies. Youre probably right.

Two things at work here.
1) my Canadian over sensitivity to US domination in Canada and elsewhere
2) my presumption that yanks are all the same when it comes to their sense of entitlement to world domination...

My bad. Truely.
 
dagwood45431

dagwood45431

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Apologies. Youre probably right.

Two things at work here.
1) my Canadian over sensitivity to US domination in Canada and elsewhere
2) my presumption that yanks are all the same when it comes to their sense of entitlement to world domination...

My bad. Truely.
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No. I hate those people too. Typically, Ugly American = a Trumptard, a Teabagger and/or an arch conservative. Most of the rest of us are okay and feel a bit embarrassed by it all, to be honest.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
No. I hate those people too. Typically, Ugly American = a Trumptard, a Teabagger and/or an arch conservative. Most of the rest of us are okay and feel a bit embarrassed by it all, to be honest.
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My gf is from south of Chicago and feels your pain even way up here in the Canuckistan. Lol
 
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