hlg-185-c700 vs hlg-185-c1400

K

krankenphleger

Active Member
HydoDan said:
8 luminous cxm22 cobs @ 1050 gives you 400 watts of more efficient less expensive light..
Don't get me wrong I own 3590s but there are more efficient less expensive cobs available..
Click to expand...
I will keep that in mind the next time I buy any more cobs but I already have the eight 3590's and was just wondering the most effective way to power them.
 
V

VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
Wonder.Hippy said:
The small efficiency jump from 1400 to 700 will not offset the extra 200 watts
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Not just wefficiency, you missed the heat factor, you just ignored that. I already did it for two years. I ran a C700B driver with four cxb3590 36v, vs a C1400B driver with the saem four cxb3590 36v, . Plants grew much thicker, bushier, healthier with the lower watts and higher umoles. Plants thrive on energy not WATTS. Energy is measured in micromoles. Te softer you run a COB the more micromoles are generated. It is NOT watts it is micromoles called umoles/w most COB's produce maximum umoles between 25-35w. I think you might want to do more research before coming to that conclusion without any hard evidence other than an opinion. FACTS determine the difference not what we think. It is a fact that cree cobs produce the most umoles at 35w. check the data sheet, I already read it, that is how I know.

Lower heat, more umoles, better growth.

I was taught to think three times before speaking. I still do that.
namaste
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
nor sure where to start with that post as its literally chock full of misinformation

VegasWinner said:
I ran a C700B driver with four cxb3590 36v, vs a C1400B driver with the saem four cxb3590 36v, . Plants grew much thicker, bushier, healthier with the lower watts and higher umoles.
Click to expand...
4 cobs on a 1400mA driver would deliver about 185% more umols than the 700 mA setup.

If the plants grew better with lower wattage that has more to do with how you applied the light to the plants (distance, temperature, optics, etc.) There is nothing about running cobs at 700mA that makes them work "better" than at 1400 mA, though they will be about 10% more efficient per watt (at twice the overall cost of chips)

VegasWinner said:
Te softer you run a COB the more micromoles are generated.
Click to expand...
the softer you run a cob the LESS umols are generated. umol/W efficacy goes up very slightly but overall umols is pretty closely related to current. double the the current (almost) double the umol output.

VegasWinner said:
most COB's produce maximum umoles between 25-35w.
Click to expand...
not true at all. Apart from the fact that cobs come in all different sizes and die counts, neither umol or umol/W are maximum at 25-35W

relative to the 25-35W range, at lower currents umol/W goes up (as does cost per watt). at higher currents umols go up roughly linearly (douvle wattage> ~185% of umol output)

VegasWinner said:
I think you might want to do more research before coming to that conclusion without any hard evidence other than an opinion. FACTS determine the difference not what we think.
Click to expand...
this. facts like datasheets will tell you everything you need to know- and just about all cobs follow similar trends (at different scales) as they are all constrained by the same limits of heat dissipation

VegasWinner said:
It is a fact that cree cobs produce the most umoles at 35w. check the data sheet, I already read it, that is how I know.
Click to expand...
it is not a fact at all, nor does the datasheet say this

cree (and all cobs) produce the highest "umols" output at their highest rated current, aka 3600 mA in the case of a cxb3590

cree (and all cobs) produce the highest "umol/J" efficacy at the lowest stable current. this is generally somewhere around 0.05- 0.1A (<5W/chip) and is generally prohibitively expensive especially with expensive chips like cree.

I often state the rulke of thumb that "cutting current in half increases efficacy by approximately 10%. this is true in the typical operating current ranges we use, like 700-2100 mA, but its much more pronounced at high currents, and much less of a factor at low currents

heres some tests i did of a cxb3590 in a sphere

upload_2017-7-7_3-34-59.png

remember each of these jumps doubles the cost of chips to get similar wattage:
3600mA>1800 mA +22.8% efficacy
2000 mA>1000 mA +12.8% efficacy
1400 mA >700 mA +9.7% efficacy
1000 mA > 500 mA +7.5% efficacy
600mA>300 mA +5.1% efficacy
200mA>100 mA +4% efficacy

this is why 500-2100 mA are popular ranges of operation,as below is way too expensive, above is way too inefficient (though they make other chips that can take high currents and maintain respectable efficiency, thats crees biggest)
 
Last edited:
PilouPilou

PilouPilou

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
nor sure where to start with that post as its literally chock full of misinformation

4 cobs on a 1400mA driver would deliver about 185% more umols than the 700 mA setup.

If the plants grew better with lower wattage that has more to do with how you applied the light to the plants (distance, temperature, optics, etc.) There is nothing about running cobs at 700mA that makes them work "better" than at 1400 mA, though they will be about 10% more efficient per watt (at twice the overall cost of chips)


the softer you run a cob the LESS umols are generated. umol/W efficacy goes up very slightly but overall umols is pretty closely related to current. double the the current (almost) double the umol output.


not true at all. Apart from the fact that cobs come in all different sizes and die counts, neither umol or umol/W are maximum at 25-35W

relative to the 25-35W range, at lower currents umol/W goes up (as does cost per watt). at higher currents umols go up roughly linearly (douvle wattage> ~185% of umol output)


this. facts like datasheets will tell you everything you need to know- and just about all cobs follow similar trends (at different scales) as they are all constrained by the same limits of heat dissipation


it is not a fact at all, nor does the datasheet say this

cree (and all cobs) produce the highest "umols" output at their highest rated current, aka 3600 mA in the case of a cxb3590

cree (and all cobs) produce the highest "umol/J" efficacy at the lowest stable current. this is generally somewhere around 0.05- 0.1A (<5W/chip) and is generally prohibitively expensive especially with expensive chips like cree.

I often state the rulke of thumb that "cutting current in half increases efficacy by approximately 10%. this is true in the typical operating current ranges we use, like 700-2100 mA, but its much more pronounced at high currents, and much less of a factor at low currents

heres some tests i did of a cxb3590 in a sphere

View attachment 3973824

remember each of these jumps doubles the cost of chips to get similar wattage:
3600mA>1800 mA +22.8% efficacy
2000 mA>1000 mA +12.8% efficacy
1400 mA >700 mA +9.7% efficacy
1000 mA > 500 mA +7.5% efficacy
600mA>300 mA +5.1% efficacy
200mA>100 mA +4% efficacy

this is why 500-2100 mA are popular ranges of operation,as below is way too expensive, above is way too inefficient (though they make other chips that can take high currents and maintain respectable efficiency, thats crees biggest)
Click to expand...

What do you mean by PAR? is it a value? I knew ppf, ppfd, µmol/j etc... but not PAR.
 
W

Wonder.Hippy

Active Member
VegasWinner said:
Not just wefficiency, you missed the heat factor, you just ignored that. I already did it for two years. I ran a C700B driver with four cxb3590 36v, vs a C1400B driver with the saem four cxb3590 36v, . Plants grew much thicker, bushier, healthier with the lower watts and higher umoles. Plants thrive on energy not WATTS. Energy is measured in micromoles. Te softer you run a COB the more micromoles are generated. It is NOT watts it is micromoles called umoles/w most COB's produce maximum umoles between 25-35w. I think you might want to do more research before coming to that conclusion without any hard evidence other than an opinion. FACTS determine the difference not what we think. It is a fact that cree cobs produce the most umoles at 35w. check the data sheet, I already read it, that is how I know.

Lower heat, more umoles, better growth.

I was taught to think three times before speaking. I still do that.
namaste
Click to expand...
Evidently you didn't think hard enough
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
PilouPilou said:
so 100 PAR can be 100 PPF or 100 PPFD.. for me PAR is just the zone where the photosynthesis is active. Wow... difficult for me to understand clearly all these measures! If I add PAR Watts I am totally lost!
Click to expand...
I just spied this light at top of this page.
Specification:UFO-320

UPC:600740987755

Par Value: 3255.6umol

Lumen: 52053 Lm±5%@AC120V 54671 Lm±5%@AC240V

Power draw: 725W + - 5%@AC120V 710W + - 5%@AC240V

Probably means 3255.6 ooooomoles within the PAR range 400nm-700nm......
I think.... lol
:cool:
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
PilouPilou said:
so 100 PAR can be 100 PPF or 100 PPFD.. for me PAR is just the zone where the photosynthesis is active. Wow... difficult for me to understand clearly all these measures! If I add PAR Watts I am totally lost!
Click to expand...
par just means the measurement is restricted to 400-700nm (even though there are photosynthetically active wavelengths outside of this)

ppf- gross light emitted by a fixture (umol/s)
ppfd- intensity at a given point (umol/m^2-s)
 
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