600 watt, Growbrite OG hood, Chocolote Mint OG clone, 60 day Lemon grow.

Cheywahey

Member
Hey guys, this will be my first time posting/asking questions publicly about growing, I've been growing for the last.. jeez probably 7 years now and I've kept completely solitary about everything. I've done years worth of reading and studying many aspects of growing, about 7 years of actual practice, but now I'm faced with a question that I'd really rather go public with than just trial and error it alone. This is my first time attempting to clone, every single grow I've ever done has all been from seed, but now I'm looking to make the move to cloning. I cut 6 or 7 clones about 4 days ago, they all started to do "the droop" within the last hours of the first day of cutting them, now 4 days later they're all drooped to hell and I've cut more clones. Apologies for the long post, I'll try and get to it now.

I'm using 1.5" rockwool plugs, not cubes, individual plugs soaked in a very weak nute solution (1/8 tsp per gallon) 5.5 pH solution for 12 hours before use, then I take the plugs out and shake (don't squeeze) them over my sink precisely 8 times until a nice amount of water has been flung out, I then rehydrate them in the same solution I soaked them in, but brought up to 6.5 pH, then repeat the 8 shake step with the plugs again.

●The first time cutting the clones●, I make a general (not 45°) cut on the cutting that I want, and immediately throw it into a cup of water which is never more than 6" away from me (to cut the cutting and have it in water in under a second) I then brought the cuts out of the water, made the 45° cut and dipped it into the gel (Rapid Clone by Cropmax, came with my humidome, .6% IBA content) and placed into the plugs and that's it. That's how I did the first round of clones that haven't bounced back yet.

The second round of clones that I just cut this morning (4 days after the first batch of clones) followed the same soak procedure, except I made my general cuts off of the mother plant and threw it in the cup of water, BUT, I made my secondary 45° cuts underwater and scraped all my stems underwater aswell (didn't scrape the first batch of clones) and I also wish-boned one of my new cuts aswell.

So here we are, 4 days in with the first batch of clones that haven't bounced back, and less than a couple hours of the second batch of clones being cut. They're under a "humidome", but also sitting on a macroplug tray to keep them off of the bottom of the dome, they're sitting under a 125w blue cfl that's kept roughly 1.5' - 2' above the dome, and the dome gets sprayed 2 times a day, the clones have just recently been getting a very light misting during those 2 times aswell, the vent holes have been completely closed on the dome since day 1 (as far as I know, they need to be kept closed until clones start to bounce back) and now I'm really just waiting. Waiting and searching for answers as to what I did wrong or if they'll bounce back.

So thus ends my hour or so long explanation, apologies for the length of this, but I'm really just throwing this out there without expecting a response at all, though thank you very much in advance to anyone who does :)
 

meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
Huh sounds like you are on the right path to me... did the plugs dry out to much maybe first round? I have found that waiting ... and more waiting... is key to cloning. But sounds like you have everything right... hopefully it works out this time!
 

Cheywahey

Member
Huh sounds like you are on the right path to me... did the plugs dry out to much maybe first round? I have found that waiting ... and more waiting... is key to cloning. But sounds like you have everything right... hopefully it works out this time!
The plugs drying out was the last thought that I had in my mind, everywhere I've looked regarding cloning with rockwool, all of the concerns were around the rockwool staying too moist, so I feared spraying the plugs or the misting the plants directly, lifting them up (this morning) they all feel hydrated (not wet, but the difference in weight between a dry/wet plug, is noticeable) so I'm not too sure about it being a plug hydration problem, but I appreciate the words of reassurance more than you know lol, as for the waiting and waiting, yeah I mean if they're gonna die you might aswell just keep em in there until you're absolutely sure they're not coming back, I'm gonna go take a picture of the dome/clones and post it in the next reply, so there will actually be visual reference to my explanations
 

Cheywahey

Member
Got called into work for a little bit, just got back and was able to take a quick pic and edit it to properly explain everything. The *red* circled cuts are the ones that I took 4 days ago, that look like straight up death. The blue circled cuts are the ones that I took this morning, just starting to get some of the droop going, and a little blue dream sprout behind the tray. I'm mainly wondering if those red circled cuts are too far gone, they're browning up a bit and looking like they won't make it, the red circled cut up in the front on the far right is by far the best looking cut of that series of cuts, it's not nearly as far gone as the others, but it's not looking too good for the rest of them2017-02-04_12.30.52.jpg
 

mo841

Well-Known Member
Build an aero cloner. For real u cut the clones stick them in the cloner and forget about them. Only takes water too.it don't have to be on 24/7 either just have it come on for a half hour every couple hrs. No fucking around, that's the best part.
 

Cheywahey

Member
Build an aero cloner. For real u cut the clones stick them in the cloner and forget about them. Only takes water too.it don't have to be on 24/7 either just have it come on for a half hour every couple hrs. No fucking around, that's the best part.
I've heard there's no point, that rockwool and gel is all you need and "f*** spending a couple hundred on an aero cloner" when all you "really" need is a cup of water and a cutting. I'm sure aerocloners are awesome and well worth the money you'll spend on one, however, not only do I not have time nor ability to build one, I can't shell out a couple hundred and just buy one when I've gotta save up for x2 Phytomax-2 800's :p I really appreciate the reassurance in general though, and will more than likely consider looking at aerocloners down the line
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
Got called into work for a little bit, just got back and was able to take a quick pic and edit it to properly explain everything. The *red* circled cuts are the ones that I took 4 days ago, that look like straight up death. The blue circled cuts are the ones that I took this morning, just starting to get some of the droop going, and a little blue dream sprout behind the tray. I'm mainly wondering if those red circled cuts are too far gone, they're browning up a bit and looking like they won't make it, the red circled cut up in the front on the far right is by far the best looking cut of that series of cuts, it's not nearly as far gone as the others, but it's not looking too good for the rest of themView attachment 3893258
IMO, people get way too fancy and complicated with cloning. Get an ordinary seedling tray - 1.5 inch holes is fine. Peat based Jiffy cubes that fit it (not tried rockwool but it should work just as well). A tray/holder with no holes to go underneath. A humidity dome for it. My trays and dome cost less than 20 bucks. I take a cutting - using ordinary scissors. I scrape the stem a little where it will be going into the cube. I strip the nodes below the top two, leaving the growth tip, two nodes and two developed leaves. No cutting of the leaves. Dip them into the IBA rooting solution for five seconds or so. Push them into presoaked cubes - all the way in. Put them under the dome, with about a cup of water (with 1/2 strength veg nutes) in the bottom of the tray. Close the vents. Place in a warm spot, 75-80 degrees or so. Illuminate with a CFL. 5-15 days later I see roots. I don't mess with them, don't even look at them for five days. Then its only long enough to check for roots coming out of the cube. One sign that your cutting may be growing roots is a slight yellowing of the growth tip and new baby leaves

IMO, you are leaving too much lower foliage. And stop cutting the leaves in half. I think that's just stoner science. Outside of cannabis growers the cutting of leaves is simply unheard of. Look at any household guide for rooting cuttings and you won't find any mention of any leaf cutting. I only do a couple at a time, I had four in the dame at one time but so far I am 7 for 7.

Now, having said that, it is known that some strains are notoriously hard to clone...
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
I've heard there's no point, that rockwool and gel is all you need and "f*** spending a couple hundred on an aero cloner" when all you "really" need is a cup of water and a cutting. I'm sure aerocloners are awesome and well worth the money you'll spend on one, however, not only do I not have time nor ability to build one, I can't shell out a couple hundred and just buy one when I've gotta save up for x2 Phytomax-2 800's :p I really appreciate the reassurance in general though, and will more than likely consider looking at aerocloners down the line
I agree - I just use a seedling tray with a dome - less than 20 bucks and came with a bag of about 50 peat jiffy cubes.
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
Build an aero cloner. For real u cut the clones stick them in the cloner and forget about them. Only takes water too.it don't have to be on 24/7 either just have it come on for a half hour every couple hrs. No fucking around, that's the best part.
"forgetting about them" is the whole key to cloning, IMHO. Once they are under a dome, and have water, they will usually stiffen up in a couple hours and you just need to leave them the fuck alone for a week or so.
 

Cheywahey

Member
IMO, people get way too fancy and complicated with cloning. Get an ordinary seedling tray - 1.5 inch holes is fine. Peat based Jiffy cubes that fit it (not tried rockwool but it should work just as well). A tray/holder with no holes to go underneath. A humidity dome for it. My trays and dome cost less than 20 bucks. I take a cutting - using ordinary scissors. I scrape the stem a little where it will be going into the cube. I strip the nodes below the top two, leaving the growth tip, two nodes and two developed leaves. No cutting of the leaves. Dip them into the IBA rooting solution for five seconds or so. Push them into presoaked cubes - all the way in. Put them under the dome, with about a cup of water (with 1/2 strength veg nutes) in the bottom of the tray. Close the vents. Place in a warm spot, 75-80 degrees or so. Illuminate with a CFL. 5-15 days later I see roots. I don't mess with them, don't even look at them for five days. Then its only long enough to check for roots coming out of the cube. One sign that your cutting may be growing roots is a slight yellowing of the growth tip and new baby leaves

IMO, you are leaving too much lower foliage. And stop cutting the leaves in half. I think that's just stoner science. Outside of cannabis growers the cutting of leaves is simply unheard of. Look at any household guide for rooting cuttings and you won't find any mention of any leaf cutting. I only do a couple at a time, I had four in the dame at one time but so far I am 7 for 7.

Now, having said that, it is known that some strains are notoriously hard to clone...
Cutting the leaves in half encourages transpiration, that I do know. The only stoner science behind it would be that by cutting them, it discourages foliar growth and promotes root growth, which that I'm uncertain of. Now with that said, appreciate the support and suggestions, the low foliar growth was again going off of multiple journals being viewed on and off of people leaving mass amounts of foliage and while I was conscious of leaving too much on, didn't want to strip the things either
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
Cutting the leaves in half encourages transpiration, that I do know. The only stoner science behind it would be that by cutting them, it discourages foliar growth and promotes root growth, which that I'm uncertain of. Now with that said, appreciate the support and suggestions, the low foliar growth was again going off of multiple journals being viewed on and off of people leaving mass amounts of foliage and while I was conscious of leaving too much on, didn't want to strip the things either
See, the funny thing is, no houseplant guides suggest any such thing for other plants. Cannabis is not special in any significant way than other plants of similar type. There is a lot of stoner science in this hobby, (like the so-called "finishing flush"), that is passed around as fact when there is literally zero real science behind it.

As for Transpiration - your goal is to REDUCE it while the new roots are forming, not increase it. That's the whole reason for the dome and high humidity. That's why I simply strip the lower growth, leaving two fully formed leaves and the growth tip.
 

Cx2H

Well-Known Member
My best clone success rates are in rockwool, I have 2 aero's that are not being used..

Soggy rockwool leads to slime...
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
See, the funny thing is, no houseplant guides suggest any such thing for other plants. Cannabis is not special in any significant way than other plants of similar type. There is a lot of stoner science in this hobby, (like the so-called "finishing flush"), that is passed around as fact when there is literally zero real science behind it.

As for Transpiration - your goal is to REDUCE it while the new roots are forming, not increase it. That's the whole reason for the dome and high humidity. That's why I simply strip the lower growth, leaving two fully formed leaves and the growth tip.
Another thing I notice in your picture is that the rockwool seems to be held above the water level in the tray. Add water to the tray so the bottom of the plugs are in contact with it. unlike seedlings, for clones, there really is no such thing as "too wet".
 

Cheywahey

Member
Another thing I notice in your picture is that the rockwool seems to be held above the water level in the tray. Add water to the tray so the bottom of the plugs are in contact with it. unlike seedlings, for clones, there really is no such thing as "too wet".
That's contradictory to literally everything I've ever read regarding cloning with rockwool, rockwools biggest problem as a cloning medium/medium in general is it's ability to hold moisture "too well", everything I've ever read regarding cloning with rockwool has warned to A.) Never have it sitting in standing water, B.) Shake out all of the excess water after the initial soak, C.) (Optionally, depending on which site you're reading on) Don't mist the rockwool, mist the dome, the rockwool will stay too moist and D.) Keep the rockwool elevated above the bottom of the dome to reduce the amount of moisture buildup on the cube/plug. If I really believed it to be a hydration issue with the rockwool I'd spray the cubes, and I've only had to do that once for 2 different cuts so far. As for the pruning method of removing all but 2 leaves and the growth tip, will definitely try that on my next attempt, appreciate the help, *edit* I also feel it appropriate to say I'm using a heat mat underneath the tray and dome aswell, so if it could possibly be a heat issue aswell? But that furthers the fact that I couldn't have standing water in the bottom of the tray below the plug tray, the heat from the mat would dissipate due to the water in the tray, I guess the whole reason I started this thread was to know if those cuts would bounce back or not, I'm well aware that it sometimes takes weeks, plural, to root some cuts, I was just wondering if anyone had personally had cuts look THAT BAD and bounce back, or if there's a point of no return
 
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Cx2H

Well-Known Member
You leave rockwool sitting in stagnant water, it gets code red pretty quick. You put clones on/in a saucer in the dome out of water. Pre soaked cubes don't need more water most of the time, maybe drops.
 

Cheywahey

Member
You leave rockwool sitting in stagnant water, it gets code red pretty quick. You put clones on/in a saucer in the dome out of water. Pre soaked cubes don't need more water most of the time, maybe drops.
Have you ever had some near-death looking cuttings like that, end up bouncing back for you? Or have you ever had such an issue with your rockwool cloning?
 

Cx2H

Well-Known Member
Have you ever had some near-death looking cuttings like that, end up bouncing back for you? Or have you ever had such an issue with your rockwool cloning?
Yeah I forget to water some times and they drop but come right back.

I presoak in 5.8, liquid seaweed and ca:mg. Maybe a touch of silica
 
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