Raw, cold pressed liquid kelp as substitute for kelp meal

[paraordnance]

I using this raw, cold pressed kelp product called "Kelpgrow" (kelpgrow.com). It appears on pictures as slightly more brown than green, but to my eyes it leans more to greenish-brown liquid and it's very murky. I really like this product and seen incredible results with it on my strawberries which kept flowering and throwing fruit until November! (and I'm in Canada by the way). I never seen anything like it. I also used it in my indoor garden with every second watering. My question is, can I substitute dry kelp meal with this in my first try of no-till? Should I just stick to manufacturer rates with every other watering since I can't physically add 1 cup per cf of soil mix? Should I prepare my soil mix and drench it with some of this raw kelp for extra measures while my soil is cooking? I'm also afraid of overdoing applications. This product works great for foliar due to its liquid nature, it's the soil application amount and frequency that puzzles me

 

[NaturalFarmer]

I would slow up a little on the use but still would continue to use both. The cold pressed is the one you want. Supposedly a higher amount of cytokinin. Cytokinins are plant growth regulators that are said to accelerate growth, yields, and color.

 

[paraordnance]

I would slow up a little on the use but still would continue to use both. The cold pressed is the one you want. Supposedly a higher amount of cytokinin

This product is not cheap. $20 per liter or $60 per gallon. The whole idea is to avoid buying second dry kelp meal product (I don't have dry kelp meal on hand) and only use this.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Yeah its not cheap. Youll be fine with just that.
This companies parent (Atlantic Labs) supplies a lot of the industry with kelp products. You may be able to order something cheaper through them direct but mostly larger volumes by the looks.

http://www.noamkelp.com/products.html

 

[Rasta Roy]

In my opinion dry kelp > liquid kelp.

You cannot bottle something without losing something from it.

Bottled stuff works great sure. You'll be even happier with your results using bagged kelp. And your dollar will stretch further.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

"TYPES OF KELP AMENDMENTS

Liquid Kelp

Liquid kelp is usually highest in nutrients and most available for immediate use by plants compared with the powder or meal form. It can be cold-processed, or enzymatically digested. The digested form is a higher-quality formulation, so expect to pay a bit more. Its use might be best reserved for high-value crops. The digested form also contains more natural growth hormones (more than 60) than either of the other two extracted forms. The cold-pressed form will have less nutrients, but still offer more than powder or meal. Some of the growth hormones in liquid kelp include cytokinins to aid in the division of cells; auxins to promote root and cellular development; indoles to aid in root and bud development; and gibberellins to promote stem and seed development. This form needs to be reapplied more often, as the nutrients will be used within one month of application. Mix liquid kelp at a rate of 1-2 tbsp. per gallon of water.

Kelp Meal

In meal form, kelp can be incorporated into garden soil at a rate of 1 lb. per 100 sq. ft. Depending on weather and microbial activity in the soil, one application will begin to release nutrients in about four months. Of all kelp products, meal usually contains the least amount of kelp, as there may be other organic materials mixed in with it."

http://maximumyield.com/blog/2015/07/01/kelp-the-wonder-amendment/


This brand looks very good for the West Coast.

"Freshly harvested kelp is rapidly processed at low temperatures, using naturally occurring enzymes isolated from the kelp, to digest and liquify the chopped kelp into a dark liquid extract."

http://www.groworganic.com/pvfs-organic-liquid-kelp-quart.html

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Even Monsanto is in the game.
http://www.bio-ag.com/products/feedsupplements/kelpmeal/

 

[Dr. Who]

That's Bio-Ag NOT the BioAg Ful-Humix people!
Different companies completely!
The Monsatan alliance with NOVOZYME (Based out of Denmark) is named Bio-Ag! Monsatan is attempting to get into the organic market and they are working with Novozyme to do it......

So all you users of BioAg humic and fulvic products,,,,DON'T WORRY! IT'S NOT THEM!!!!

I figured I had better clear that up pronto!

On our organic farm. Kelp meals are used by turning it (tilling in the fall) into fields that are being changed over to organic.
After the 3 year certification process. kelp is delivered by AAC Tea's applied in the spring....

Meals to build and extracts there after.

 

[Rasta Roy]

"TYPES OF KELP AMENDMENTS

Liquid Kelp

Liquid kelp is usually highest in nutrients and most available for immediate use by plants compared with the powder or meal form. It can be cold-processed, or enzymatically digested. The digested form is a higher-quality formulation, so expect to pay a bit more. Its use might be best reserved for high-value crops. The digested form also contains more natural growth hormones (more than 60) than either of the other two extracted forms. The cold-pressed form will have less nutrients, but still offer more than powder or meal. Some of the growth hormones in liquid kelp include cytokinins to aid in the division of cells; auxins to promote root and cellular development; indoles to aid in root and bud development; and gibberellins to promote stem and seed development. This form needs to be reapplied more often, as the nutrients will be used within one month of application. Mix liquid kelp at a rate of 1-2 tbsp. per gallon of water.

Kelp Meal

In meal form, kelp can be incorporated into garden soil at a rate of 1 lb. per 100 sq. ft. Depending on weather and microbial activity in the soil, one application will begin to release nutrients in about four months. Of all kelp products, meal usually contains the least amount of kelp, as there may be other organic materials mixed in with it."

http://maximumyield.com/blog/2015/07/01/kelp-the-wonder-amendment/


This brand looks very good for the West Coast.

"Freshly harvested kelp is rapidly processed at low temperatures, using naturally occurring enzymes isolated from the kelp, to digest and liquify the chopped kelp into a dark liquid extract."

http://www.groworganic.com/pvfs-organic-liquid-kelp-quart.html

Wouldn't kelp teas have all the same benefits of liquid kelp?

I just don't see a fermented bottled product that sits on a shelf for god knows how long is superior to some you could brew fresh yourself.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

I think some of the hormones are lost in the dry meal but to be honest, I doubt too many survive long after harvest anyhow because they are amino acids and they supposedly decompose quickly. You can rehydrate your kelp meal, and many do (I hear its great)....but mostly for micronutes not the hormones...Could be wrong and prob depends on source
Now if you have access to fresh kelp and brew your own than thats probably the best way to go.

 

[Dr. Who]

Wouldn't kelp teas have all the same benefits of liquid kelp?

I just don't see a fermented bottled product that sits on a shelf for god knows how long is superior to some you could brew fresh yourself.

No, not really. Liquid kelp is pressed out of harvested kelp - fresh.
Kelp meal is ground dried kelp and sometimes other things too....

When we do brew our farm teas. We start with a basic AACT and add alfalfa meal to the brewing formula and then add liquid kelp extract after the tea is brewed. Kelp products added to the brew formula. Actually reduce the living bio's produced by as much as 40+%!
So then, while your getting the benefits of the kelp, you reduce the bio counts from that style of use.....I do some nutrient teas and kelp is fine in that. BUT, if I'm doing an AACT with EWC or to be better put a simple bio tea.....No, I don't add them.

Teas made from meals do not have the levels of hormones, near what you get from extracts.....I find that I believe that a few other compounds are slower to be available or less available overall in meals.....

One thing to remember is that the use of meals in soil building IS great for increased root development...

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that throwing some kelp meal into your worm bins has interesting results in the casting properties.....do it slowly and monitor your worms...

 

[paraordnance]

No, not really. Liquid kelp is pressed out of harvested kelp - fresh.
Kelp meal is ground dried kelp and sometimes other things too....

When we do brew our farm teas. We start with a basic AACT and add alfalfa meal to the brewing formula and then add liquid kelp extract after the tea is brewed. Kelp products added to the brew formula. Actually reduce the living bio's produced by as much as 40+%!
So then, while your getting the benefits of the kelp, you reduce the bio counts from that style of use.....I do some nutrient teas and kelp is fine in that. BUT, if I'm doing an AACT with EWC or to be better put a simple bio tea.....No, I don't add them.

Teas made from meals do not have the levels of hormones, near what you get from extracts.....I find that I believe that a few other compounds are slower to be available or less available overall in meals.....

One thing to remember is that the use of meals in soil building IS great for increased root development...

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that throwing some kelp meal into your worm bins has interesting results in the casting properties.....do it slowly and monitor your worms...

So if I spray roots with this liquid kelp while transplanting wouldn't that equal to application of kelp meal in soil? Or if I apply liquid kelp with waterings wouldn't it soak the soil and have same effect? And if I use liquid kelp in worm bin should I use it as is without dilution. May be a cup of concentrate on top of worm food for same benefits as kelp meal?

 

[Dr. Who]

No spray roots!
Use in the feed/water...so yeah, soak in soil is the way.
No, not extract in worm bin! Kelp MEAL in worn bin please.....You want the worms to eat the meal and do their magic like Civets eating coffee beans......

 

[Rasta Roy]

No, not really. Liquid kelp is pressed out of harvested kelp - fresh.
Kelp meal is ground dried kelp and sometimes other things too....

When we do brew our farm teas. We start with a basic AACT and add alfalfa meal to the brewing formula and then add liquid kelp extract after the tea is brewed. Kelp products added to the brew formula. Actually reduce the living bio's produced by as much as 40+%!
So then, while your getting the benefits of the kelp, you reduce the bio counts from that style of use.....I do some nutrient teas and kelp is fine in that. BUT, if I'm doing an AACT with EWC or to be better put a simple bio tea.....No, I don't add them.

Teas made from meals do not have the levels of hormones, near what you get from extracts.....I find that I believe that a few other compounds are slower to be available or less available overall in meals.....

One thing to remember is that the use of meals in soil building IS great for increased root development...

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that throwing some kelp meal into your worm bins has interesting results in the casting properties.....do it slowly and monitor your worms...

Gotcha. From my understanding most liquid kelp fertilizers are just kelp meal that's been fermented and put into bottle form. The extract seems like a superior product to that.

 

[Dr. Who]

Gotcha. From my understanding most liquid kelp fertilizers are just kelp meal that's been fermented and put into bottle form. The extract seems like a superior product to that.

Up, you need to read those labels!

Kelp extract is like extra virgin olive oil - First cold press is the only way to go!

 

[NaturalFarmer]

That's Bio-Ag NOT the BioAg Ful-Humix people!
Different companies completely!
The Monsatan alliance with NOVOZYME (Based out of Denmark) is named Bio-Ag! Monsatan is attempting to get into the organic market and they are working with Novozyme to do it......

So all you users of BioAg humic and fulvic products,,,,DON'T WORRY! IT'S NOT THEM!!!!

I figured I had better clear that up pronto!

On our organic farm. Kelp meals are used by turning it (tilling in the fall) into fields that are being changed over to organic.
After the 3 year certification process. kelp is delivered by AAC Tea's applied in the spring....

Meals to build and extracts there after.

ABOSO-FUCKING_LUTLY- My appologies....You are so right. BioAg Ful-humic is a small biz that makes a high quality product. I should have said that.

Monsanto has tricked me more than twice. They have tried to bully that small business out by doing what they do best. Tricking people into thinking the devil doesn't exist.

Small Bussiness BioAg
http://www.bioag.com/home.html

Monsanto BioAg
http://www.monsantobioag.com/global/us/Pages/default.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAiA6rrBBRDsrLGM4uTPkWASJADnWZQ4isfGRRsSngMmAXKB59tS-SHPe-xoNLI2qMNBYTPBQxoCMivw_wcB

Article Relating
http://naturalsociety.com/monsanto-swipes-trademarked-name-chemical-agricultural-agenda/

 

[greasemonkeymann]

In my opinion dry kelp > liquid kelp.

You cannot bottle something without losing something from it.

Bottled stuff works great sure. You'll be even happier with your results using bagged kelp. And your dollar will stretch further.

I feel ya man, and I agree
Also i'm not a fan of using phosphoric acid to stabilize it
Kelp meal kicks ass as a green input to the compost pile, or simply in the soil as an additive
I mean sure, if you are going to foliar spray with it, and don't want to mess with the teas and straining
but there is so much more to kelp than it's growth stimulants

 

[Dr. Who]

ABOSO-FUCKING_LUTLY- My appologies....You are so right. BioAg Ful-humic is a small biz that makes a high quality product. I should have said that.

Monsanto has tricked me more than twice. They have tried to bully that small business out by doing what they do best. Tricking people into thinking the devil doesn't exist.

Small Bussiness BioAg
http://www.bioag.com/home.html

Monsanto BioAg
http://www.monsantobioag.com/global/us/Pages/default.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAiA6rrBBRDsrLGM4uTPkWASJADnWZQ4isfGRRsSngMmAXKB59tS-SHPe-xoNLI2qMNBYTPBQxoCMivw_wcB

Article Relating
http://naturalsociety.com/monsanto-swipes-trademarked-name-chemical-agricultural-agenda/

Nice reply! Thanks! I use vast amounts of the "real" BioAg products and was fearing that eventual false/mistaken connection, or the implication of it.

Fucking Monsatan is attempting to screw the successful little guy on that!
As an organic farmer....These bastards and the new push to get into the organic market has scared a lot of us organic farmers for a cpl of years now.....

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I recently have been getting more and more nervous about heavy metal content
kelp is a filter for the ocean..
and since humans are routinely dumping shit in the waters...
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20070509_kelp_arsenic/

I mean I LOVE kelp... but
I don't love altzheimers
it's fuckin ridiculous so many organic nutrients are simply not "clean"
from the arsenic in feather meal, and kelp meal
to the prion scare from bovine bone meals
to the hormones in manures..
holy fuck man..
aluminum in azomite, friggin RADIOACTIVE granite dust?!
approximately 5% of granite is naturally radioactive..
that's just superb

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Nice reply! Thanks! I use vast amounts of the "real" BioAg products and was fearing that eventual false/mistaken connection, or the implication of it.

Fucking Monsatan is attempting to screw the successful little guy on that!
As an organic farmer....These bastards and the new push to get into the organic market has scared a lot of us organic farmers for a cpl of years now.....

They own Met-52 which many organic farmers use as Im sure you know. and it isn't organic unless I am mistaken. Needs a petroleum carrier. Just another example.

I recently have been getting more and more nervous about heavy metal content

I agree about the heavy metals 100% and now Fukashima. Look at DE for instances, unless you are buying food grade, you are getting heavies. Mined materials are the scariest to me. Rock phos, azomite,humates,...sorry to derail the thread but you are right. Im trying my best to gain local inputs completely and it saves money.

Now if I can just learn to make quality humic out of leaves and water.