Javadog
Well-Known Member
Me too, if late.
Sub'd ...lurking & learning
I just popped a Larry OG and have hopes.
Good luck!
JD
Ruwtz Maneuver Vol 1
- Thread starter ruwtz
- Start date
I just popped a Larry OG and have hopes.
Good luck!
JD
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
48hrs after res change I have floating white translucent slime/mucus that is also clinging to hoses and pumps. No brown color as per root rot etc, and no foaming. None at all found on the two airstones, which leads me to think it could be anaerobic bacteria. Res EC was down from 1.3 to 0.3 this morning before flood so whatever it is likes to eat a lot of nutes. pH has stayed where I left it at 6.0.
GH trio + CalMag + Hydroguard only.
I would prefer it to be a simple algae (cyanobacteria?) due to not completely light-proofing the res (I didn't tape down the holes). I did not take any pics before pumping out the res and bleaching everything down. Res is currently refilling with RO.
Res temps are continuously 75F, however @ttystikk (or @Wisher2 ??) suggested earlier in this thread that this isn't something to worry about in my setup.
Something else: I have been top watering the rock wool blocks just enough to keep them from drying out completely whilst the coco layer beneath is the only medium fed by flooding. Doing this may be flushing the block of all sorts/anything, from the previous regimen of bennies (Recharge containing molasses) to nasties living up in there. Could this then be washing back into the res? I am attempting to run a sterile system but I might well be having a hangover from the previous organic approach.
I'd like to study the roots at this point for a better idea of any problems this may be causing, however I don't want to disturb these new root networks now they are settled into the smart pots. I do know they are looking good from those I can eyeball growing out of the pot bases.
Things i'm thinking about:
- does Hydroguard count as an organic additive? Its all good bacteria, after all
- if chilling the res does inhibit any growth, perhaps this should be a priority after all?
- possible contaminated dehu reclaim water, although I am now treating with H2O2 before reusing.
Running two pumps (one for flooding, one for circulation) is adding a couple of degrees so I can leave out the latter to cool things down.
I think I can rule out algae simply by light proofing and also leaving out the airstones. Then if the mucus don't come back then the airstones will be gone and problem solved.
Currently reading about the benefits of adding Clorox or similar household bleach to the res to keep things clean throughout. An apparently reliable source says 2ppm or 0.5ml/10gal every 3-4 days is good measure, and that this is preferred over H2O2 due to stability and reducing O.
GH trio + CalMag + Hydroguard only.
I would prefer it to be a simple algae (cyanobacteria?) due to not completely light-proofing the res (I didn't tape down the holes). I did not take any pics before pumping out the res and bleaching everything down. Res is currently refilling with RO.
Res temps are continuously 75F, however @ttystikk (or @Wisher2 ??) suggested earlier in this thread that this isn't something to worry about in my setup.
Something else: I have been top watering the rock wool blocks just enough to keep them from drying out completely whilst the coco layer beneath is the only medium fed by flooding. Doing this may be flushing the block of all sorts/anything, from the previous regimen of bennies (Recharge containing molasses) to nasties living up in there. Could this then be washing back into the res? I am attempting to run a sterile system but I might well be having a hangover from the previous organic approach.
I'd like to study the roots at this point for a better idea of any problems this may be causing, however I don't want to disturb these new root networks now they are settled into the smart pots. I do know they are looking good from those I can eyeball growing out of the pot bases.
Things i'm thinking about:
- does Hydroguard count as an organic additive? Its all good bacteria, after all
- if chilling the res does inhibit any growth, perhaps this should be a priority after all?
- possible contaminated dehu reclaim water, although I am now treating with H2O2 before reusing.
Running two pumps (one for flooding, one for circulation) is adding a couple of degrees so I can leave out the latter to cool things down.
I think I can rule out algae simply by light proofing and also leaving out the airstones. Then if the mucus don't come back then the airstones will be gone and problem solved.
Currently reading about the benefits of adding Clorox or similar household bleach to the res to keep things clean throughout. An apparently reliable source says 2ppm or 0.5ml/10gal every 3-4 days is good measure, and that this is preferred over H2O2 due to stability and reducing O.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Yeah I cut this out long time back, I'm just suggesting it may be residual in the rock wool. It should be a sterile res of chem nutes and no organics at this point.
FWIW, the molasses is included as part of the Recharge product as its billed as a "microbial super pack", but clearly better suited as a soil amendment.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Quite so.
As it happens, I ran ebb n flood tables like yours for a long time but I have recently changed to a soilless substrate, in part to be able inoculate with soil microbes.
Wisher2
Well-Known Member
IMO
I would *ONLY* flood
no more top feeding anything
I think there is to much going on in your thoughts right now
the slime way very well be Hydroguard
It is a bacteria
if you are top feeding and essentially flushing stuff back into the res then it is probably hydroguard feeding and multiplying
should be all good
only flood from now on
the roots are already into the coco....there is no need to keep the block wet
what you can do is take coco and fill in around the block of RW
but there is no need
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ruwtz
Well-Known Member
And thats just it. I would like to know for sure if it is Hydroguard's bacillus bacterias multiplying in the res so i'm not just ignoring a different problem that may get worse down the line.
I'm not finding any reading about this being a problem with Hydroguard so its starting to seem unlikely.
The roots I can see appear clean, white and vigorous so I don't think I have a more significant root zone problem at this point.
As part of today's cleanout I have quickly dunked each plant in a light H2O2+RO solution, and this constitutes a watering as I haven't been able to flood since yesterday.
After today's res change I will be leaving out the air pump and light proofing better in the hope of ruling out algae and aerobic bacteria.
Whichever way, I will avoid top watering so as not to flush any further traces of organic matter back into the res and encouraging this snot, but that does make me concerned as common sense suggests the integrity of those roots up top is at risk from drying back too far and breaking since the rock wool does dry completely. We'll have to see how it goes from here.
I will be hand watering and d2w in coco flower so I can keep the microbial inoculations for then!
Wisher2
Well-Known Member
Hydroguard is clear......that dosnt look good at all
looks like algae to me
as for the RW block
that isnt how plant growth works
even when you are using RW only
you literally sit the block on a slab.....and the roots grow into that
once the roots grow out of the block and into the coco.....there is no need for the rw to be moist
the roots in the coco will suck all the nutrients an h2o into the plant as the coco soaks it will eventually wick into the rw block
that is how F&D works....a wicking system
if you flood for the proper amount of time....the media will wick enough to soak the media entirely
and then you keep the media moist....by setting the flooding intervals correctly
you dont have to worry about overwatering with coco
in coco with a base watering system....the plant will regulate by itself
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ruwtz
Well-Known Member
A few updates if you're watching:
[1] changing the res dealt with those mucus floaties; light-proofing was improved and airstones left out, and things are looking good in there 48hrs later, which was all the time it took from previous res change for these things to appear. Trying to avoid using chlorine or H2O2 if I can help it.
[2] also left out the circulating pump which was adding 3-4F to water temps and bringing up to 76F which I didn't like.
[3] added a second 32gal RO storage tank and a float valve; this is black with a tight fitting lid and I drilled holes for hoses in / out (see pic) and is being pumped from for add-backs and res changes. Probably beyond necessary but the airstones are now in here to add O. Temps = 72F.
[4] Since res change I have been putting 0.8EC into the table, and for the first feed it was washing back in at 1.4EC. I diluted back to 0.8EC, next feed came back at 1.0EC so diluted again to 0.8EC, which is now stable. I can see occasional slight burning on some new leaf tips thus proving the overfeed. Hopefully 0.8EC is good for them now.
I will add back before tonights' feed and if there's a deficit I know to increase feed a little. Not a hard rule and all gardens are different but I expect to be up closer to 1.2EC at this stage (most plants approaching 2 months in veg now). Obviously i've been set back from long periods of stress of various kinds!
Still seeing some new signs of possible Mg deficiency (rusty spotting on fan leaves), despite 5ml/gal of CalMag. Seeing some slight N tox too so I may dose with epsom salts to avoid adding too much of the other stuff in CalMag.
It actually looks more like a pH problem to me but I don't expect so: feed started at 5.6 and i've let it rise without adding any up (preferred); after 4 days we're now at 6.0. Seems ideal to me.
Roots looking good. This is one of the Gorilla Glue's... its going to be a shame to lose all this lovely growth when I pull them from these smart pots but i'm sure they will boom again. These have easily been the most vigorous in this cycle so far.
[5] started to see some of the top shoot leaves cupping upwards with the lights now within 7-8". Its difficult for me to raise the lights much more without catching on the oscillating fans on the wall behind, so i've dimmed them back instead by 20% to around 1.1amps. Would prefer to reconfigure this fan/light arrangement at some point so as to keep the lights maxed out.
Still planning to flip in just over a week which probably means I should snip some clones real soon and allow for recovery before moving next door into flower. I have enough for 4 or 5 plants per strain and the plan is to move two strains over to occupy a light each, wait a month and move over another two strains.
Also have these single seeds vegging - Girl Scout Cookies and Chronic x NY Diesel - freebies I decided to take a look at, and if they go as well as they've started then i'll chop a bunch of clones and veg out.
[1] changing the res dealt with those mucus floaties; light-proofing was improved and airstones left out, and things are looking good in there 48hrs later, which was all the time it took from previous res change for these things to appear. Trying to avoid using chlorine or H2O2 if I can help it.
[2] also left out the circulating pump which was adding 3-4F to water temps and bringing up to 76F which I didn't like.
[3] added a second 32gal RO storage tank and a float valve; this is black with a tight fitting lid and I drilled holes for hoses in / out (see pic) and is being pumped from for add-backs and res changes. Probably beyond necessary but the airstones are now in here to add O. Temps = 72F.
[4] Since res change I have been putting 0.8EC into the table, and for the first feed it was washing back in at 1.4EC. I diluted back to 0.8EC, next feed came back at 1.0EC so diluted again to 0.8EC, which is now stable. I can see occasional slight burning on some new leaf tips thus proving the overfeed. Hopefully 0.8EC is good for them now.
I will add back before tonights' feed and if there's a deficit I know to increase feed a little. Not a hard rule and all gardens are different but I expect to be up closer to 1.2EC at this stage (most plants approaching 2 months in veg now). Obviously i've been set back from long periods of stress of various kinds!
Still seeing some new signs of possible Mg deficiency (rusty spotting on fan leaves), despite 5ml/gal of CalMag. Seeing some slight N tox too so I may dose with epsom salts to avoid adding too much of the other stuff in CalMag.
It actually looks more like a pH problem to me but I don't expect so: feed started at 5.6 and i've let it rise without adding any up (preferred); after 4 days we're now at 6.0. Seems ideal to me.
Roots looking good. This is one of the Gorilla Glue's... its going to be a shame to lose all this lovely growth when I pull them from these smart pots but i'm sure they will boom again. These have easily been the most vigorous in this cycle so far.
[5] started to see some of the top shoot leaves cupping upwards with the lights now within 7-8". Its difficult for me to raise the lights much more without catching on the oscillating fans on the wall behind, so i've dimmed them back instead by 20% to around 1.1amps. Would prefer to reconfigure this fan/light arrangement at some point so as to keep the lights maxed out.
Still planning to flip in just over a week which probably means I should snip some clones real soon and allow for recovery before moving next door into flower. I have enough for 4 or 5 plants per strain and the plan is to move two strains over to occupy a light each, wait a month and move over another two strains.
Also have these single seeds vegging - Girl Scout Cookies and Chronic x NY Diesel - freebies I decided to take a look at, and if they go as well as they've started then i'll chop a bunch of clones and veg out.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Oh and i'm resurrecting my DIY 35 site cloner machine ready for these girls' offspring. Just running through some H2O2 solution to clean up.
This used to be a blue tote but some Plastidip took care of that. Inside is a 200gph pump and a 1/2" PVC rig with spray nozzles. I used to run this 1 min on / 4 min off but I can't find that special timer anywhere in my house right now!
This used to be a blue tote but some Plastidip took care of that. Inside is a 200gph pump and a 1/2" PVC rig with spray nozzles. I used to run this 1 min on / 4 min off but I can't find that special timer anywhere in my house right now!
Wisher2
Well-Known Member
why are you gonna pull the plant from the smart pot?
that will def set you back a few weeks and stunt your growth
if you have tables for flowering
just move them over to flower
but dont remove them from the smart pot
tha would be a NIGHTMARE
ripping all those roots and disturbing the rhizosphere
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
So just repot into the 5gal smart pots? Smart pot in smart pot, double potted?? Hmm, hadn't thought of that!
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Wisher2
Well-Known Member
you can do that....
you can also leave them in the pot that they are in and flower in that....but yes
you can drop the fabric in the fabric as there are many feeder roots that have breached the fabric
I usually flower in 1/2gal plastic pots and net about 30g per plant
so if bigger roots = bigger fruits
I would say a 2gal would net me 120g right
so I am sure the pots they are in will be fine but dropping into the 5gal will work as well
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
I need to maximize plant size as I have number limits, hence transplanting to 7gal smart pots (sorry I said 5gal before but its 7gal pots that I have) for biggest possible plants. Four per light in flower.
Just reading now about double potting. Someone called Smart Pots and they said not advisable as the fabric isn't actually designed for healthy root penetration... hmmm.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/double-potting-smart-pots.48739/ ((some input there from our good man @ttystikk
))Some saying they've had success, others not so much. I suppose I don't have much choice at this point but to give it a go in the interests of minimizing root stress.
Much of this extra root growth has occurred since moving up to two waterings per day as the table is staying wetter in between feeds.
Some of my plants are air pruning well (as per pot design), and these I might just peel out of the smart pot. I'll be able to see side-by-side if there's any advantage.
Might need to look at another plan in future. Possibly airpots in veg, smart pots in flower.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I do tend to get around.I need to maximize plant size as I have number limits, hence transplanting to 7gal smart pots (sorry I said 5gal before but its 7gal pots that I have) for biggest possible plants. Four per light in flower.
Just reading now about double potting. Someone called Smart Pots and they said not advisable as the fabric isn't actually designed for healthy root penetration... hmmm.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/double-potting-smart-pots.48739/ ((some input there from our good man @ttystikk
Some saying they've had success, others not so much. I suppose I don't have much choice at this point but to give it a go in the interests of minimizing root stress.
Much of this extra root growth has occurred since moving up to two waterings per day as the table is staying wetter in between feeds.
Some of my plants are air pruning well (as per pot design), and these I might just peel out of the smart pot. I'll be able to see side-by-side if there's any advantage.
Might need to look at another plan in future. Possibly airpots in veg, smart pots in flower.
You waited too long and got really nice roots where you didn't really want them.
Up pot now to give your plants maximum time to regenerate. I don't think it will be a serious blow unless you'd planned to flip tomorrow.
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ruwtz
Well-Known Member
These roots have happened in less than a week due to the increased watering and aided by sitting on the hydroton layer in the table. I don't have room on the table to transplant them all up to 7gal - I will have to wait until i'm ready to flip unfortunately.
Those that have pruned well I will slip the pots off like socks. Those that have grown considerable mass through the liner I will have to double pot. I suspect the second method will stunt root development somewhat due to the nature of the fabric, but I won't know til end of harvest.
Wisher2
Well-Known Member
you will notice when trying to pull the fabric pot off that mad roots will be connected and start to tear
I think that in the future instead of fabric
you can always use plastic
I have never really found air pruning to really boost anything
as a matter of fact I only noticed that my waterings went up as the fabric dries out so fast
Just my Experience
and fabric is expensive compared to standard nursery pots
or you could always go from party cups to final fabric pot
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I do know. You'll want to avoid double potting.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Yeah, my thoughts entirely. I don't like this idea TBH.
I have clones going in party cups but aiming to veg 5-6 weeks in something 2-3gal before finishing in 7gal flower. 2gal fits my table size and veg period pretty good.
Air pruning is much more forgiving for people like me, and I can handle the extra waterings.
Air pots might be a better solution here. I also like the look of the Rootmaker square molded containers.
http://www.rootmaker.com/retail/21